dojo_b
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Damn that's sad. Yes, regardless of the actual sources of disappointing backing figures, I would have advised to steer clear of generative AI, which is treated like lead in toys by many hobbyists these days. One thing to bear in mind is that most of us shopping already have more games than we can actually play or do justice to. If we are going to buy another one it's partly because it supports some mental image of happiness we hold, and that can involve both us and the larger community. In my case I backed the KS without even viewing the trailer on the strength of TLP and because I am so fond of the ludic and problem-solving and nerdy-forum values of this DROD + DROD-RPG community. Other people will have less specific attachment, more attachment to other communities e.g. working professional artists (who even if you don't know one personally, are sympathetic folks and some of the more rewarding people to follow on social media), and more ick-factor around AI, and that can simply cancel their positive draw to the product.

Citrus
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Awww darn. Just got confirmation I'd have the funds set aside to be able to back this and it's canceled. Oh well, hopefully I can set it aside and will still have it available when/if it comes back up.

My two cents on AI and its usage.



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Kargaros
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I posted the following in the Kickstarter comment section:

I am sad to hear about the cancellation, but I respect the decision.

Speaking for myself, I didn't watch the trailer -- I am more a person for written descriptions. I really enjoyed the descriptions and examples of the different game elements, and I loved the idea of the overall campaign progress and replaying areas with incrementing goals of meta-unlocks.

Count me in for "round 2" when it happens!

As an addendum, let me say that I hope the team remembers to take care of yourselves and each other in this, I am sure, stressful time. Your long term well-being is the most important

Once you are through the worst of it, I could probably use a hand with getting the pfd-version of Twisty Little Passages (I have the order confirmation but nothing after that). There is no rush however, take time for yourselves first!

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mrimer
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Kargaros wrote:
As an addendum, let me say that I hope the team remembers to take care of yourselves and each other in this, I am sure, stressful time. Your long term well-being is the most important

Once you are through the worst of it, I could probably use a hand with getting the pfd-version of Twisty Little Passages (I have the order confirmation but nothing after that). There is no rush however, take time for yourselves first!

Appreciate the kind words of support and encouragement, and thank you for the nudge. A link to your digital copy of TLP has been sent to you. Hope you enjoy it!

Blondbeard
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Right now my son is sitting with TLP

I haven't informed him about Time Fenix, so it was a total fluke. He just happened to pick it up.

Kargaros
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mrimer wrote:
Appreciate the kind words of support and encouragement, and thank you for the nudge. A link to your digital copy of TLP has been sent to you. Hope you enjoy it!

Thank you for the quick turnaround! I got the link and everything went smoothly from there.

I should probably not start looking through the first pages at 23:30 in the evening Danish time -- but just a quick peek

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mrimer
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File: princess bride six fingers ai.jpg (48 KB)
Downloaded 574 times.
License: Public Domain

So, we anticipated that a hero based on shamans from an indigenous tribe in Yakutia would be a fresh and interesting persona, which fit well thematically into the setting and theme we had crafted for our game. We hand-drafted multiple concept versions of this character, which is entirely hand-drawn on our box cover image, as well as in previous internal iterations.

Ultimately, this is how the character was received:



I am upset by this reaction. Ironically, AI paranoia is pushing us as a creative team toward the design and presentation of a more generic and cliched protagonist so that he's not perceived as AI-generated by being "abnormal"!

Is this at its heart a type of cognitive bias? Prejudice? I'm interested in what this cultural shift to value things that are "familiar in order to be human" means for the nature of creative media, long-term.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 07-08-2025 12:30 AM]

Blondbeard
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mrimer wrote:

I am upset by this reaction. Ironically, AI paranoia is pushing us as a creative team toward the design and presentation of a more generic and cliched protagonist so that he's not perceived as AI-generated by being "abnormal"!

I don't recall anyone saying this about the main character. As I understood it the issue was with the background. Some of us, like me, thought the use of AI for backgrounds in the trailer was perfectly fine. Others did not.

I think the main character looks good as is, and I agree with your perspective. Are you talking about feedback from this thread? If so, I read the thread differently than you.

mrimer
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Blondbeard wrote:
I don't recall anyone saying this about the main character. As I understood it the issue was with the background. Some of us, like me, thought the use of AI for backgrounds in the trailer was perfectly fine. Others did not.

I think the main character looks good as is, and I agree with your perspective. Are you talking about feedback from this thread? If so, I read the thread differently than you.

There are comments on the KS about the main character looking AI-generated because he's unusual, or simply being too unusual in his composition to feel good about as an illustration. Backers are suggesting we need to, what can I say...simplify the character design.

The background on the box cover is also hand-drawn. No AI use here. The background image and other entities on the cover image also went through multiple hand-drawn iterations. That's why I'm saying that calling it out as AI feels like some kind of witch hunt.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 07-08-2025 03:30 PM]

Blondbeard
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mrimer wrote:
There are comments on the KS about the main character looking AI-generated because he's unusual, or simply being too unusual in his composition to feel good about as an illustration. Backers are suggesting we need to, what can I say...simplify the character design.

So sorry to hear that! If it were me, and I stuck with the product I wanted to make, no way I would regret that. On the other hand, if I made changes that felt unjustified, I would be at risk of regreting that. Hope you find the decision that will make you content!

Citrus
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I think it's another one of those things where using AI for one part of the ensemble (the backgrounds) just makes people justifiably wary of how much it's being used elsewhere.

And after the last few years of so many tech scams (mostly in the NFT and crypto spheres) people are inclined to see the worst in new tech, which I don't blame them for. Please don't take it as an attack on you, or on Art as a whole.

clem

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navithmastero
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Citrus wrote:
Please don't take it as an attack on you, or on Art as a whole.

It sort of is though. Certain groups online have become so obsessed with 'calling out' AI use, that they are attacking art made by people, to the point where people like Mike are having to rethink art which has been done by real humans... which ironically is what those who call out AI use are apparently trying to protect.

I also think that what you said about tech scams sort of misses the point. It's not the tech that scammed people, it's bad actors who often had a big audience and who clearly had let's say a 'vested interest' in making these things work. A one-man indie game from a studio with a track record of delivering quality projects for over 20 years is so far removed from the world of NFTs and crypto-scams that 'punishing' people like Mike for use or potential use of a new technology seems misinformed and reactive at best. This isn't standing up to 'big tech', it's unfairly punishing the people that they are apparently trying to protect.

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[Last edited by navithmastero at 07-11-2025 12:05 PM]

Citrus
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A very valid perspective. And I'd be ecstatic if the people upset saw things that way and if I were participating in a conversation with them, I'd be explaining that too. Empathy can go both ways and is important for deescalation.

clem

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