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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Holds : Finding the First Truth (Summer 2011 Smitemasters' Selection)
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Author Name:Chaco
Submitted By:Chaco
Hold Name:Finding the First Truth
Theme:Summer 2011 Smitemasters' Selection
Author's Difficulty:
Number of Levels:14
Number of Rooms:153
Number of Monsters:907
Version:DROD: The City Beneath (3.2)
High Scores:View High Scores
Hold Karma:18 (+18 / -0)
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icon Finding the First Truth  
Well, here's the new Smitemasters' Selection: Finding the First Truth. Everyone's probably eager to get started, so I'll try not to ramble on too long.

My name is George Wanfried and I've been playing DROD for almost six years. At the moment I'm 18 and about to start my second year in college. Being part of this whole "people who made Smitemasters' Selections for Caravel Games" group is quite an honor - I'm glad the community thinks I'm producing good material, and I feel I was quite lucky to be in the right place at the right time with a hold ready to go for Caravel.

A little bit about the hold: While I think this hold does continue in the grand tradition of Smitemasters' Selections that are pretty difficult, I don't think this hold is going to be a major problem for people to complete, unlike the infamous difficulty of Perfection and Beethro's Teacher. This probably won't be any more difficult to get through than the main Journey to Rooted Hold or The City Beneath holds. That said, there are some tough rooms and some puzzles I haven't seen anywhere else yet, so don't be afraid to ask for help if you've been working at a puzzle between sessions and still can't get it.

There's a lot of interesting stuff in this hold, absolutely canon, that you won't want to miss before playing DROD: The Second Sky. Beethro will return to the City and get two new clues: one pointing him to the location of the notorious architect Jobus, and another about what those Archivists are up to with this Grand Event. Although there will be many tough obstacles and adversaries to overcome, he will learn that learning can be a powerful tool. Perhaps with an organization and proper use of the Truthlock Method, Beethro might finally be able to get one step ahead of the Empire.

When you first enter the hold, you'll be presented with an option. Most people should probably go ahead and enter the city, since there's a lot of interesting information in there, you can go to the Library and talk to the Librarian, and get plenty of information about what you're going to be doing. If for some reason you're in a hurry to go get stuck on the puzzles immediately, the other option skips you directly to the puzzles and gives you an abridged summary of the events.

And now I'd like to thank a whole bunch of people, again, and this time name names.

I'd like to thank all the people who tested the original hold in beta, such as BoyBlue, jbluestein, Rheb, and slimm tom. I'd like to give special thanks to CuriousShyRabbit and larrymurk, who had a lot of valuable comments and put in a lot of testing work just before release to make sure the rooms were almost unbreakable.

For story purposes, Erik was responsible for creating the Truthlock Method documents and the overall plot. Tim, mrimer and I fit the plot into the hold and wrote in the details. Tim and mrimer wrote dialogue and did editing and consistency checks, while I was responsible for building the cutscenes. mrimer was very helpful in checking all the numbers and canon references we used, putting them in where appropriate, and he also did the voice and sound editing work. A surprisingly large number of the dialogue and jokes I wrote managed to stay in, and I think all the voice actors did a great job with what they were given.

Voice Credits

There's a very large number of voiced lines in this hold.

Beethro Budkin - Snacko
Jobus - Doug Murk
First Librarian - Clayton

Chemist - RabidChild
Gossipers - Elfstone, Penwielder and west.logan
Build Marksman - Casebier
various citizens - Casebier, DiMono, west.logan

Slayer - RabidChild
Aumtlich - west.logan
Goblin - west.logan
Guards - amadan, DiMono, west.logan
Guard Captain - Someone Else
Stalwarts - DiMono, west.logan

Vessels - Dischorran
Water Routing Technician - Chaco (me)

Alright, that's enough. Beethro needs to know what the Grand Event is, and you've got to help him go figure it out!

Have fun!
07-27-2011 at 04:56 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Finding the First Truth (+3)  
Yay! It's finally here!

I've been playing this hold since February 2008, and I've enjoyed it every time I've replayed it. I hope everyone else likes it as much as I do.

Erik's storyline is solid, and quite an interesting change of pace for Beethro. Most of the story telling happens at the beginning and end of the hold, but there are plenty of surprises and fun stuff in between.

Chaco has created four main puzzle levels, based on sworded game elements. There are puzzles about figuring out the right order to do things, lynchpin puzzles based on how the sworded entities interact with other game elements, puzzles that are all about manipulation, and more... The Decoy Level, aside from the first two puzzles you see, is probably the easiest.

And then the surprises start for real. Have fun! :D
07-27-2011 at 05:18 AM
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west.logan
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Very exciting, though I'm not under the illusion that I'll beat it any time soon (too many other holds to try first, to build up my skill).

Since I can't download from my caravelnet page, I guess I'll have to wait for the CD to start (as I have no intention of purchasing something I get a free copy of!).

I am also very excited to see how everyone's voice acting came together. There were a lot of great recordings on the Sound Assets board.

____________________________
-Logan

[Last edited by west.logan at 07-27-2011 02:44 PM]
07-27-2011 at 02:43 PM
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Schik
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icon Re: Finding the First Truth (+2)  
quote:
west.logan wrote:
Since I can't download from my caravelnet page, I guess I'll have to wait for the CD to start (as I have no intention of purchasing something I get a free copy of!).
If I can find a list of who all should get free copies of this, I'll enable it for everyone on that list ASAP.

Edit: I've added everyone... I think. If you should have it but you don't, let me know!

____________________________
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals.
--Mahatma Gandhi

[Last edited by Schik at 07-27-2011 03:15 PM]
07-27-2011 at 03:06 PM
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west.logan
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quote:
Schik wrote:
If I can find a list of who all should get free copies of this, I'll enable it for everyone on that list ASAP.


That would be fantastic. I suppose at the very least, all the voice actors are included in that. These would be:

amadan
Casebier
Chaco
Clayton
DiMono
Dischorran
Doug Murk (if he has an account)
Elfstone
Penwielder
RabidChild
Snacko
Someone Else
west.logan

I don't know how the process works for beta testers.

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-Logan
07-27-2011 at 03:15 PM
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Jatopian
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I think we could use a list of which SS holds actually advance the canonical plot in a way that can't be summed up in a few sentences.

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07-27-2011 at 06:45 PM
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Tim
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File: Sms3.png (249.5 KB)
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icon Re: Finding the First Truth (+2)  
For everyone who hasn't played this hold yet, here are some official screenshots I've made earlier:

Click here to view the secret text


Click here to view the secret text


Click here to view the secret text


There's a fourth picture located behind the bar puzzle, but obviously I can't link it here.

PS. There pictures are of somewhat lower quality, as they otherwise takes up too much space.

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[Last edited by Tim at 07-27-2011 10:10 PM]
07-27-2011 at 10:06 PM
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Pinnacle
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Same difficulty as TCB? I'm either really rusty or I forgot how hard TCB was. Probably both.

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07-30-2011 at 05:48 PM
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Banjooie
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I will say this: I don't feel like I have to find some ridiculous lynchpin to do the puzzle, the issue I'm having is that the rooms look literally incomprehensible to me half the time. Which I think is solely because I'm terrible at DROD, but I like that at least the actual execution doesn't have to be painfully precise when I /do/ get it.

Also, um. Very exuberant voice acting in many cases. Yes. There was a most excellent conversation in the chat about the voice acting, and honestly I never want to move a raft again.
07-30-2011 at 09:17 PM
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Jatopian
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07-30-2011 at 10:44 PM
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west.logan
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quote:
Banjooie wrote:
Also, um. Very exuberant voice acting in many cases. Yes. There was a most excellent conversation in the chat about the voice acting, and honestly I never want to move a raft again.


Do tell. Please.

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-Logan
07-31-2011 at 03:03 AM
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Jatopian
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The script wherein Beethro asks the Grand Librarian the name of the book repeats on room reentry.

How'd you do the scene in Processing Station 9?

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Make your pressure plates 3.0 style!
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[Last edited by Jatopian at 07-31-2011 07:19 AM]
07-31-2011 at 07:13 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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quote:
Jatopian wrote:
The script wherein Beethro asks the Grand Librarian the name of the book repeats on room reentry.
Don't worry. This is intentional; it is specified in the script for the hold.
07-31-2011 at 07:35 AM
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slimm tom
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quote:
Jatopian wrote:
How'd you do the scene in Processing Station 9?
If you look closely, there are actually two versions of the room. One for the cutscene, and one in the city itself in its finished state.
07-31-2011 at 01:38 PM
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Jatopian
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Ah okay, cool.

Also I dispute the assertion that this is on a difficulty level with JtRH (TCB maybe, seeing as it's harder than JtRH). JtRH had a guard level, yeah, but you didn't have to manipulate individual guards so much. I beat JtRH level 25, but the Entrance on the Guard Level stumps me completely.

____________________________
DROD has some really great music.
Make your pressure plates 3.0 style!
DROD architecture idea generator
08-01-2011 at 02:11 AM
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12th Archivist
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quote:
Jatopian wrote:
but the Entrance on the Guard Level stumps me completely.

Have a hint, if you want it:
Click here to view the secret text


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Check out the DROD Wikia project here!
08-01-2011 at 02:36 AM
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Ezlo
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And conquered!

I'm not good at reviewing stuff so I'll say this: The puzzles were fun, even if they were disconcerting at first. Half the puzzle seemed to be how everything fit together and the goal of the room was never, ever immediately obvious. That isn't a complaint however, I thoroughly enjoyed being perplexed about how it all fit.

If I had to say anything bad about the hold at all, it would have to be a few very small nitpicks about the story.

SPOILERS (Duh)
Click here to view the secret text


I'm no good at rating difficulty, but it was certainly worth a 10 for fun!
08-01-2011 at 04:05 AM
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martz
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icon Re: Finding the First Truth (0)  
I'm working my way through this hold at the moment. I will provide a review upon completion but I've got a few questions for now if you'll indulge me:

Crumbly Level
Click here to view the secret text

Slayer Level 1S
Click here to view the secret text

Crumbly Level 2S1W
Click here to view the secret text

One further item:

Exit Level: 7S2E was marked as high-scorable but it shouldn't have been - I've 1-moved it so I believe that will force the room as unscorable?

____________________________
Without struggle, there is no progress, so get up, get out, and go make the rest of your life the best of your life; you deserve to live the life that YOU want to live...

Progress - Gavin G

[Last edited by martz at 08-05-2011 05:18 PM : Added note about Exit Level: 7S2E]
08-05-2011 at 04:07 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Finding the First Truth (+1)  
Some brief answers:

Crumbly Level
Click here to view the secret text

Slayer Level 1S
Click here to view the secret text

Crumbly Level 2S1W - Your solution is exactly the intended one, and your #1 will not last for long. My unoptimized demo is 20 moves faster. However, I'm waiting some of you other fine players to master the hold before I replay it for scores. :P

When a hold is promoted, all its rooms start out as scorable. They become unscorable when people 1-move them like you did. Chaco, the architect, manually marked the story rooms unscorable after promotion. He did this because players can't 1-move a trivial room with a long cutscene in it.

[Last edited by CuriousShyRabbit at 08-05-2011 11:47 PM]
08-05-2011 at 11:19 PM
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robin
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icon Re: Finding the First Truth (+1)  
Conquered!!! 25% secret rooms (now allready 50%)

A thank you very much to CuriousShyRabbit for helping me out in several occasions :D

Now up to Mastery!

There'are still some tough secret rooms to go.

One question:
In the "Hub Level: 1S"
Is the orb behind to blue door reachable?

____________________________
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08-05-2011 at 11:40 PM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Finding the First Truth (+2)  
A brief reply to all this discussion about the Crumbly Level and being able to re-enter it:

Click here to view the secret text


As for the orb in Hub Level 1S: nope, sorry, Beethro just can't reach that one.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):
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08-05-2011 at 11:45 PM
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Dischorran
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Cleared! I still have some secrets to go, but whatever, I've seen the hold.

A solid SmS that, unlike prior ones, actually has a plot!


The good:

Brilliant tricks with the sworded elements. The elements have all been around for a while, but the mimic control mechanisms in 1E and 1S1E, the decoy rotation mazes, and some of the later room designs were amazing.

Polished throughout, of course. Chaco does remarkably well at giving holds a canonical DROD feel - it doesn't quite match the innovation of Rheb's Complex Complex as a result, but it feels more like an evolution of the core holds than any of the other SmSes that I can remember.

Difficulty was pitched almost perfectly - I don't think I've ever had the traditional "complain and solve" approach work as well as it did here. I tended to solve rooms after getting royally irritated at them and wanting to give up on them, but well before needing to get hints, which is about what should be happening.


The bad:

Some of the rooms tended toward impenetrable complexity. They always fell successfully to a "well, I can do this, so let's try it and see what happens" approach, but it wasn't always clear from the start what my actions would lead to. I wonder how many such cases resulted from having a particularly brutal beta testing squad.

Voice acting on the Guards level. I won't spoil it further.


Overall, pretty darn good!

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08-06-2011 at 05:37 AM
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Rabscuttle
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icon Re: Finding the First Truth (+2)  
Postmastered.

Click here to view the secret text

Click here to view the secret text


Click here to view the secret text



[Last edited by Rabscuttle at 08-06-2011 11:56 AM]
08-06-2011 at 11:54 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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Regarding Processing Station 9
Click here to view the secret text

08-06-2011 at 12:01 PM
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martz
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icon Re: Finding the First Truth (+4)  
Finished!

High-Score Queries:
Click here to view the secret text

Review:

This is an excellent, well-polished hold from Chaco. Given the high standard of work beginning with his first proper hold Chaco's Hold it's no surprise that we've ended up here. I'm going to repeat some of the previous comments, but I think that difficulty-wise this is perfectly pitched - it doesn't have the insane inaccessability of Beethro's Teacher but at the same time it's not so easy that it doesn't provide the odd challenge here and there.

There's no horde management to be found in this hold, and in almost all cases, everything in a room is there for a reason so if you do find yourself getting stuck make sure you check everything in the room and you'll probably find what you were missing.

Some of the voice acting seems a bit over-exuberant although I imagine it was probably quite fun to do it.

I thought the ending did seem a bit too long, although this hold did advance the story more than Suit Pursuit so it's worth completing it for that reason alone.

The Mastery Level was a nice throwback to the JtRH and TCB master levels.

Some specific room comments:
Click here to view the secret text
Click here to view the secret text
Click here to view the secret text
Click here to view the secret text
Click here to view the secret text
Click here to view the secret text
Click here to view the secret text

Final Verdict: An excellent addition to the Smitemasters' Selection suite which has got me looking forward to the next official hold a whole lot more:

Difficulty: 7
Fun: 10

____________________________
Without struggle, there is no progress, so get up, get out, and go make the rest of your life the best of your life; you deserve to live the life that YOU want to live...

Progress - Gavin G
08-08-2011 at 05:27 PM
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robin
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This was an enjoyable hold, I realy loved it.
Like I said somewhere before, I'm proud that I didn't ask for a demo.

Some rooms where tough, but I did managed to clear them.

Special thanks to CuriousShyRabbit & martz for helping me in tough moments ;) :D :P

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08-09-2011 at 04:10 PM
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larrymurk
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Great hold Chaco and all involved!

I always enjoy Chaco's moderate difficulty, interesting rooms. There's plenty of entertainment to be had here what with the four main levels and then a couple more tacked on for good measure.

Thanks for great hold Chaco.
08-10-2011 at 11:10 PM
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Blondbeard
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Why didn't I enjoy this more? :?

There are some great stuff, for sure, and it got me hooked. I especially liked the mimic-level. Looking back at the rooms they are clever and original, all I could ask for, it would seem. I think I might have felt some rooms were a bit messy. That the solving of the room was messy even though you knew what needed to be done. This is however also true for lots of rooms I have utterly loved. I don't really know why I feel the way I do. A good hold, but not my favourite SMS.

Click here to view the secret text


Edit: And post-mastered. I liked the master-level, and the secrets I had left to get to it.

____________________________
I would write some kind of signature if I wasn't so lazy. Oh, and right now I have a DROD RPG Let's Play plus a Let's Play of Troshian Tower going on :-)

[Last edited by Blondbeard at 08-18-2011 06:16 PM]
08-16-2011 at 01:10 PM
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Tahnan
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Lovely, really lovely. (Finally post-mastered. I've just got a certain scary post-mastery-level room left.)

A few idle, probably spoilery, thoughts:

Click here to view the secret text


All in all, a whole lot of fun.
08-20-2011 at 09:29 AM
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west.logan
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quote:
Tahnan wrote:
...and as for certain secret-room guards....)


I've seen this comment (or related ones about exuberance) multiple times and I am intensely curious. What lines are we talking about here? What character?

As a sidenote, while I was doing my lines I felt I was somewhat blind as to what was going on. I didn't have a story board and no idea what kind of voice or personality the character was supposed to have. So I guessed (I assume we all guessed) and Mike chose.

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08-20-2011 at 03:00 PM
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