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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Holds : Advanced Concepts 2 (8 new lessons)
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8.5/10 (17 votes)
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Author Name:Jacob
Submitted By:Jacob
Hold Name:Advanced Concepts 2
Theme:8 new lessons
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Number of Levels:10
Number of Rooms:211
Number of Monsters:1518
Version:DROD: The City Beneath (3.2)
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Hold Karma:4 (+4 / -0)
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File: Advanced Concepts 2.hold (214.9 KB)
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icon Advanced Concepts 2  
8 new lessons on the uses and abuses of elements in DROD.

Over 200 rooms of explanations, demonstrations, practice rooms, challenges and secrets by some of the Eighth's best architects.

A compilation hold by Boyblue, Calamarain, Chaco, Dischorran, Jacob, jbluestein, Jutt and Rheb

Beta-tested by the architectural team, Blondbeard, CuriousShyRabbit, noma and TFMurphy - thanks guys.
05-09-2011 at 10:08 PM
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Tim
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icon Re: Advanced Concepts 2 (+1)  
New AC hold, and somewhat harder than the first one.

This version contains levels about Wraithwings, Stalwarts, Speed Potions, Briars, Mirrors, Aumtlich, Tarstuff and Rock Giants.

I haven't finished it yet so I can't say how good it is, but I'm certain this is a better tutorial hold than most of the tutorial holds on this site. :)

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[Last edited by Tim at 05-09-2011 10:16 PM]
05-09-2011 at 10:14 PM
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da rogu3
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icon Re: Advanced Concepts 2 (+1)  
oh wow, another advanced concepts hold

*downloads immediately* O:-

I'll post a more detailed review when I finish it (which might take a year or so :P)

Edit: Minor nitpicking - scroll in tarstuff 8N4E has a typo '..has an odd number of enclosed cornerst to begin with..'

[Last edited by da rogu3 at 05-16-2011 01:52 PM]
05-09-2011 at 10:25 PM
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Tahnan
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icon Re: Advanced Concepts 2 (+1)  
quote:
da rogu3 wrote:
Edit: Minor nitpicking - scroll in tarstuff 8N4E has a typo '..has an odd number of enclosed cornerst to begin with..'
There are a few other scrolls with typos--"moster" for "monster" in one of the early Aumtlich rooms, for instance.

Additionally, "Stalwarts: 2W" has a scroll saying that the room isn't required to complete the level. Was that room supposed to be marked "unrequired"? (I think I recall another of those somewhere, but I forget where.)
05-18-2011 at 08:46 AM
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Jacob
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icon Re: Advanced Concepts 2 (0)  
Thanks for the nitpicks but what did you think of the hold itself??

quote:
Additionally, "Stalwarts: 2W" has a scroll saying that the room isn't required to complete the level. Was that room supposed to be marked "unrequired"? (I think I recall another of those somewhere, but I forget where.)


This was a bone of contention in beta-testing too, but I maintain that it makes sense of some kind.

Explanation:
Click here to view the secret text


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05-19-2011 at 12:11 AM
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Tahnan
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icon Re: Advanced Concepts 2 (+1)  
I'm still working on the hold itself. :-) Some impressions:

The writing in "Aumtlich" is hilarious. That's not surprising, given the author, but it was certainly fun to read.

After going through the Briar level to learn how they work, I came out of it with the impression that they more or less don't work. There were definitely things there I found helpful, at least for that level's challenge rooms, but I'm not positive whether they'll help me much in the typical Jacob-or-boyblue-or-larrymurk-difficulty-level hold.

I'm not sure I learned much from Giants. Weren't they covered in AC1? I felt like I'd already seen a lot of the details of their movement before.

The jury's still out for me on Tarstuff. The section on tar was incredibly helpful--I didn't at all know the "connect the black-spot junctions and white-spot junctions" trick, and at least one of the challenge rooms (the one with the mimic, the tar gate, and the mass of tar with four "holes" in it) was a terrific demonstration of how to put that to use. With gel, on the other hand, I'm not entirely sure I came out of it with any good idea of how to approach gel, beyond things like "hope that there's a gel mother there, because that makes it easier" (and that lesson worked pretty well in one of the circles-of-gel rooms). I may need to go through those rooms again.

There are some neat little challenges in the mirror rooms, but I'm not sure that level told me anything I didn't already know, either.

Speed Kills was...well, it was almost gimmicky, really, as if the architect was showing off ways he could kill you if you took a speed potion. Some of it was kind of informative, but all of the rooms pretty much came down to "you might be in a position where you don't want the extra move you get from a potion" (because you'll have to hit an orb twice, or slow down a snake, or whatever).

Stalwarts and wraithwings, on the other hand, still make my brain hurt. I thought the explanatory portions were very clear; it's just that that doesn't change the fact that they're dizzying.

So, yeah. Still playing, but that doesn't stop me from recommending the hold to, say, everyone.
05-19-2011 at 09:07 AM
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Rheb
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icon Re: Advanced Concepts 2 (0)  
This hold is colossal, there are so many wonderful puzzles and great tutorials explaining the very quirkiest behaviors of DROD. Still, I feel it may not be quite as edgy as the first one. It lacks the really simple levels you'd start with, like Brained Roaches and Simple Sword Tricks. And it lacks the extremely mind blowing finale that the Advanced Brain Movement level was for me.

Nevertheless, the hold is great! I strongly recommend it to... well, slightly more advanced players, lets say players who has gotten through much of Advanced Concepts 1.

As a final note, if you feel you don't like the tutorial feeling and the massive text scrolls, just skip some of them and play the hold like a regular hold. Sure, the hold will be harder, but none of the scrolls are essential. Playing like this will let you learn through experience and you'll feel great when you complete a room, because, believe me, they are though without the help. :)


Edit: Also, I got a first score! After trying in maybe 15 rooms... In a hold that was just released... Didn't I use to be good at this?

I feel I must congratulate mxvladi for becoming this crazy good optimizer. Some Most of the scores you've got are simply amazing :blink

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[Last edited by Rheb at 05-23-2011 10:06 PM]
05-23-2011 at 09:57 PM
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OneMoreNameless
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icon Re: Advanced Concepts 2 (0)  
The Advanced Concepts series is engaging, informative, fascinating and challenging. The lessons are clearly written and demonstrated, the tests are well designed and enjoyable, and the hold as a whole is perfectly laid out for its purpose. I have literally nothing negative to say here except that there's yet to be another half dozen sequels.

Following the original Advanced Concepts, this should be mandatory playing for anybody looking towards conquering or building expert-level holds, or who is just curious about the more obscure mechanics and interactions within DROD.
05-16-2013 at 03:58 PM
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Kyp
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icon Re: Advanced Concepts 2 (+1)  
I'm still trying to complete the hold, so this is only a partial review.

Stalwarts was very informative, but there really is a lot to say and it's very complicated. Some challenge rooms were absolutely hadcore. The problem is that the points that got me stuck had nothing to do with stalwarts (and more with aumtlich or tarstuff).

Wraithwings is very cool. I always loved puzzles involving wraithwings. I don't know how, but I kinda got the hang of it pretty soon, so this level wasn't very hard for me. It's still nice that now, when facing wraithwings, I understand why they behave as they do.

Aumtlich is a very good level, both for learning and for the challenges. The way of "hiding" the secret rooms behind challenges (instead of crumbly walls) is the best way to hide secret rooms in my opinion. It should be done more often.
And the comic tone of the scrolls is always a nice touch. ^^

Speed potions was informative and a nice change of pace. I always like an easier level now and then.

Tarstuff is very exhaustive. I'm not sure I'll use all that I learned there. :lol
I'll still keep in mind some useful hints about gel.

I'm now in Rock Giants. Not done yet, but a bit disapointed. The theory is well explained, but rock giants are like wraithwings : you don't really need the theory (except to feel intelligent), you need hints, directions on how to handle the different situations. And I don't feel like I got those. I'm now thrown in the mandatory challenges and I'm suffering exactly like I suffered on my very first puzzles involving goblins.

We'll see about briar.

EDIT : Hold mastered. ^^

So, about briar. It was a very good annex. The subject is complex but really well explained and the challenges are nice and easy.

For the Giants annex, I needed to consult the hint section of the forum for three rooms. It may not seem much, but it's the first time I actually need to consult the hints to conquer a hold. A hold that was supposed to be kind of a tutorial. That's extremelly frustrating.
And I found unintended solutions in four rooms. It may just be me but it seems my way of thinking is far too different from the architect on this one and that preventend me from enjoying the annex. Too bad.

[Last edited by Kyp at 07-07-2013 06:45 PM]
06-30-2013 at 07:30 PM
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abe10
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icon Re: Advanced Concepts 2 (0)  
Any tips on Fegundos: E1? This is what I have so far. I think I need to beat the RG level first.

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03-26-2014 at 04:22 PM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: Advanced Concepts 2 (+2)  
First, you're talking about Advanced Concepts. AC2 is a separate hold.

Second, hints requests go in Hints & Solutions. There is already an H&S thread for this room: here.

I see from the picture that you've blocked yourself by killing a golem with your sword. You need to kill it with the fegundo so it doesn't leave a rock pile. (This fact isn't taught in the rock golem level, as that level doesn't include fegundos.)

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03-26-2014 at 05:29 PM
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abe10
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icon Re: Advanced Concepts 2 (0)  
Sorry about that. Thanks for the link.

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03-26-2014 at 05:36 PM
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