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Jeff_Ray...
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icon Riddles Within The Below (+12)  
This new hold is a second attempt at a Gradual difficulty hold which introduces newbies to the game. This one should be a bit easier and have more structured grammar (please check that too). It's loosely based on JtRH.

This hold stars Tathruld, a recently graduated smiter who cleans up a dungeon.

V1.0.0
+ Three levels available.
+ Speech available

V1.0.1
! Minor speech additions in Level 3.
* Forgot an end script in 3: 3W.

V1.0.2
* Backtrack issues in Level 2 (thanks Jacob!)

V1.1.0
+ Replaced some rooms with new ones, that are easier or less redundant.
Note: I didn't fix some of the storyline-related problems. That will be handled later.

V1.2.0
+ Part of Level 4 has been released.
! Added scrolls for the sake of getting the information again.
* Fixed the mentionned comments (might be some I don't have, though.)

V1.2.1
! Added some more info scrolls that I forgot to add in the first place.
*Fixed the bugs noma mentionned and that I forgot to fix.

V1.3.0
+ Level 4 is complete! There's level 5, but this one is largely under works...
! Fixed some problems in Level 4 thanks to CSR's post.

V1.4.0
+ A whopping 3 levels addition! Hope you don't get lost!
! Made changes in Level 4 where appropriate.

V1.5.0
+ Levels 8 and 9 now available for playthrough!
* Fixed mentionned problems in levels 5 and 6.
! Changed L7: 4N and L5 2S3E to different rooms
! Level 6: 1N, 1N4W and 2N1E have been made easier.

V1.6.0
! Levels 1 to 3 have been merged into a single entity.
+ Levels 8 to 15 are completed and ready for your testing!
* Multiple bug fixes that I don't particularly recall.

V1.6.1
* Made Level 12 accessible via the warp zone; removed access to incomplete Level 16.

V1.7.0
+ Level 16 is now complete!
* Fixed bugs mentioned by Nuntar; if any remain let me know!


V1.7.1
* Removed blurbs about the "guidebook" (sorry, feature's removed folks. :(
! Moved the blue door blurb to the appropriate location.

V1.8.0
+ After about 2 years, Level 17 is finished and ready for testing!
* Bug fixes also probably happened, if they did it's been too long and I don't really remember them...


V1.8.0.1
* Fixed broken plate connection in L6 2S2W.

V1.8.1
* Fixed a bunch of things bbb and Nuntar have mentioned. Thanks to the two of you! :D
+ 2 new speed potion rooms in L18 have been added.

Enjoy!

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[Last edited by Jeff_Ray... at 01-08-2017 12:09 AM]
09-30-2009 at 11:47 AM
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Jeff_Ray...
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icon Re: Riddles Within The Below (+2)  
For the grammar checkers, here's the text file with the text included in the hold.

-Levels 1-17 included

EDIT: File edited to fit V1.8.0's changes.

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[Last edited by Jeff_Ray... at 12-28-2016 06:49 AM]
09-30-2009 at 11:11 PM
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Elfstone
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icon Re: Riddles Within The Below (+2)  
I've downloaded this and will work on it over the next couple of evenings. :)

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09-30-2009 at 11:21 PM
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Jacob
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icon Re: Riddles Within The Below (0)  
Uhoh- backtracking problems in Second level 1S1W and 1N

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10-01-2009 at 01:01 AM
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Jeff_Ray...
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icon Re: Riddles Within The Below (0)  
Okay, fixed them... Uploading... Done.

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[Last edited by Jeff_Ray... at 10-01-2009 01:43 AM]
10-01-2009 at 01:40 AM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Riddles Within The Below (+1)  
Here's a whole bunch of detailed notes on all of the puzzle rooms in this hold.

Overall, you have a good start to a good easy-difficulty hold, but you have some glaring level-design and room-design flaws that need to be fixed, and you have a ways to go before you arrive at your goal. I think you may need to take a serious look at your design philosophy and make sure it lines up with teaching concepts in a fair-handed manner to an audience that doesn't know anything beyond what it has learned from the early parts of the official products.

This hold has a lot of potential, and it does do many things right, with some good rooms and some good ideas, but I think some of the levels should be redesigned to be more effective and easier to travel around, and some of the rooms should be redesigned to be better teachers or challengers. The level structure and tutorial structure could definitely use some improvement both in difficulty curve and in presentation also.

I think what you are trying to accomplish is a great goal, but it will be tough to reach and I will hold it to a high standard. Be assured that although I often focus on the problems in your holds, I think this is a good piece of design work and you have a good start here, Jeff. :)

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10-01-2009 at 02:59 AM
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Elfstone
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File: Riddles text amended .odt (68.8 KB)
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icon Re: Riddles Within The Below (+5)  
Jeff - 'tis done. :)

When I saw pages and pages last night I assumed it would be a big job, but much of the text is that 'computer-speak' stuff. I read it through during my lunch hour today and I have amended it now.

I have also realised that it would be helpful to see the text in context, so I will have to play through the Hold. I am still on MotD though and want to finish it and in any case from comments here you are still very much working on the playing bits of the hold so maybe I have some time?

Re the attachment:
* words of yours which I think would be better omitted I have placed in (brackets)
* suggestions for additions or replacements are in UPPERCASE IN RED
* spelling mistakes (very few!) are underlined and blue
* one or two additional comments not in the above categories are in italics and green

any problems- just ask ;)

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10-01-2009 at 09:01 PM
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Elfstone
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icon Re: Riddles Within The Below (0)  
Jeff I can 'save' as any of these formats; any of them any use to you?

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10-01-2009 at 09:26 PM
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Dex Stewart
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icon Re: Riddles Within The Below (0)  
Although the chance exists that Jeff will be able to read .odt, the one format nearly everyone, everywhere can read is .doc. So use Microsoft Word 97/2000.
10-01-2009 at 11:44 PM
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Elfstone
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icon Re: Riddles Within The Below (0)  
Thanks Dex, but I genuinely thought that NeoOffice was the mac version of OpenOffice and that anyone with Word would be able to read it. I certainly had no problem reading Jeff's file. In any case I think he's got it now. :)

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10-02-2009 at 05:14 PM
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Alberttox2
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icon Re: Riddles Within The Below (0)  
Arght Demo Make Full Version!
I Dont like Demo Versions!

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10-02-2009 at 07:24 PM
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Jeff_Ray...
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icon Re: Riddles Within The Below (+1)  
This is a demo because I'm not done with the whole thing. That's all I have right now.

As I progress, I will make more demos so people can test it and this will go on until I'm done.

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10-02-2009 at 09:28 PM
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Neather2
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That's a really nice start Jeff. I've done it, secret rooms too, and i think that will be a great hold with some nice work. ;)

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Conspiracy, my new hold, has just been released.
10-03-2009 at 06:47 AM
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Penwielder
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icon Re: Riddles Within The Below (+2)  
This is a good start. I like the first level's architecture; it's not so plain and boxy. Variety of that kind is nice.

First Level: Twice South, Quarce West: It took me a few moments to realize which roach was 'that' roach.

Twice South Quince West: I think this would be a little more interesting and purposeful if the leftmost orbs opened the doors across from themselves.

Second Level: Entrance Text: I think it would be better if the fact that the contract covered only two levels were made known sooner, rather than now. At this point it makes it too obvious what will happen. Also, you misspelled 'thinks', but that would be the wrong verb tense anyway. Rethink that last sentence.

Once South: A real smitesmaster wouldn't need the protection of the orb, either. Or the north wall, for that matter. I think too many holds copy KDD the way this does.

Third Level: Twice South, Twice West: I just ignored halph for this room. This solution could be avoided by reversing the movement order of the two roaches in the end of the tunnel.

Quarce South: This kind of eye puzzle has more potential than most architects seem to realize. Keep it in mind for those times when you need a room idea.

Secret Room: A light here and there might be nice, unless for reason of storyline the place is intended to be uninhabited.

Keep working on this, but also on HA. I'd like to see that one finished soon.

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10-03-2009 at 07:13 PM
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Jeff_Ray...
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icon Re: Riddles Within The Below (0)  
Chaco:
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10-04-2009 at 08:03 PM
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Jeff_Ray...
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icon Re: Riddles Within The Below (+1)  
V1.1.0 is done! It contains new rooms, some deleted, some moved, some held back for later.

Note: Some storyline-related problems aren't fixed yet. I'm still thinking this one over.

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10-05-2009 at 10:51 PM
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noma
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icon Re: Riddles Within The Below (+2)  
I'm glad to see another hold being made for beginners. I'm curious as to how large you intend the hold to be and if you are going to be covering more than roaches.

General comments:
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Specific comments:
First Level
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Second level
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Third level
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It's a good start. I look forward to seeing more of it.


[Last edited by noma at 10-06-2009 04:44 AM]
10-06-2009 at 04:40 AM
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brian_s
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icon Re: Riddles Within The Below (+1)  
I don't have much to say so far, but I found a backtracking issue with 2S1W: If you exit to the east without clearing the room, you cannot get back to the west end.
10-07-2009 at 02:30 AM
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Jeff_Ray...
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icon Re: Riddles Within The Below (0)  
This bug was fixed (now you have to clear those rooms before going there). Next version will be out soon like.

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10-07-2009 at 09:35 PM
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Jeff_Ray...
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icon Re: Riddles Within The Below (+2)  
noma: I think I fixed what you mentionned.

-The backswiping is used in the beginning of level 4.
-I added some scrolls so the player can re-read the information.

I'll have the version uploaded sometime today now.

EDIT: Oof... didn't quite fix those things yet. I'll get on that and update the changes soon.

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[Last edited by Jeff_Ray... at 10-31-2009 08:51 PM]
10-31-2009 at 08:22 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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I'll start with the Fourth Level

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11-01-2009 at 03:06 AM
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Jeff_Ray...
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As I promised, here's Riddles Within The Below's new version! Level 4 is now complete! Enjoy!

As for Caravel Building RPG, I don't think I might be able to update today, as RPG hold testing is big work, even if you have your whole level layout complete.

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05-16-2010 at 09:33 PM
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Someone Else
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Okay, so my thoughts so far, specific rooms first:
Second Level: Secret room
There's a comment about secret rooms in this room. I think that you should include a harder room that's not difficult to find (the entrance to it is open) that's marked as secret to explain this, but before you can find any secrets.
05-19-2010 at 03:08 AM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Riddles Within The Below (0)  
Here's some notes about the latest version that may or may not be redundant with what's already been said. Note that most of my comments are regarding the puzzles in levels 4 and 5.

This is still going strong, but my point about this hold going through lots of revision if Jeff's goal of a comprehensive tutorial along the lines of MotD but following the plot of JtRH is going to be achieved, that point still stands.

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05-22-2010 at 06:16 PM
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noma
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Comments
Fourth level:
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Level 5 (Understood the level is in progress)
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05-24-2010 at 04:55 PM
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Yur-Val
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Good hold. :)
06-03-2010 at 07:17 PM
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Jeff_Ray...
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Months later... I finally present to you the new version of Riddles! With 3, count 'em, 3 levels! Don't get overwhelmed, now!

As always, comment, proofread, etc., and most important of all, have fun! :D

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Currently playing:
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-Completed:
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-Work in Progress:
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08-21-2010 at 08:32 PM
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brian_s
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icon Re: Riddles Within The Below (0)  
I found a backtracking problem in level 6. If you leave 3N2W to go to the secret room before clearing, then it becomes impossible to beat upon returning. Having the secret path start at (27,14) and go around top of the room should fix this.
08-23-2010 at 12:49 AM
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noma
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Quick note: stairs at Level 6 entrance exit the hold. Should they be going back to 5?
08-30-2010 at 03:17 AM
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Jacob
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icon Re: Riddles Within The Below (+1)  
I really liked how this hold was going, and how it had a steady difficulty curve, starting very basic. So it was working out to be a good hold for beginners.

However, as pointed out above, some things are explained and others just aren't. It doesn't make much sense to explain orbs and arrows, but not multi-use pressure plates. Plus some things are used before they are explained (e.g. arrows in level 1).

Secondly, there's a sudden shift up in difficulty on level 5 with rooms like 2S3W and 4S (youch!) Both are great rooms and should be kept (somewhere) but are much harder than other rooms on that level. If this hold is really for beginners, I doubt they'd manage this at this stage.

On that note, I've been playing drod for years and almost lost patience with level 6: 1N. Manipulating a horde of wubbas is annoying, as is manipulating a horde of golems (especially in a tight space), so both in one room is terrible. I noticed that, if you don't position the second lot of wubbas correctly, you restrict your ability to move west when killing the golems and you easily get stuck and this is pretty frustrating.
Now I'm stuck on 2N1E - is it possible? I can get Halph to the last orb to release the roaches, but this entails getting a lot of wubbas in the small section at the end, and then I can't escape. I'm sure the puzzle here would be as good with half or a quarter of the wubbas you've used. (This statement is generally true for most of this level).


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08-31-2010 at 07:06 PM
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