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Jacob
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 icon Re: King Dugan's Dungeon 5.0 (0)  
I slightly step back on my previous position if *all* instances of KDD 2.0 can simply be replaced by the 5.0 version since this would not create any version clashes, but still could cause confusion.

However, how would this work if the 2.0 *engine* is bought with KDD 2.0 as the default hold?

I also think that the fact that we will be releasing DROD 5: TSS, alongside KDD 5.0 (or KDD 2.0 updated to 5.0), alongside Flash DROD: KDD Lite Part 5 is not without its sources of confusion.

One last idea if we really want to have a new updated version of KDD with challenges - why not a "Best of" KDD, that only includes good rooms and those with challenges of interest? (I am not keen on this idea for the same reasons as above, but it is a possibility).

Addendum: No offense intended Nuntar. I would honestly be 50x more interested and excited to play your DROD 5 hold (the first ever usermade one?) than to play another version of KDD and, if it were up to me, the forum architects should be more concentrated on making new exciting DROD5 holds than re-treading old ground.


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[Last edited by Jacob at 06-11-2014 11:47 AM]
06-11-2014 at 11:43 AM
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Nuntar
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 icon Re: King Dugan's Dungeon 5.0 (0)  
Jacob wrote: Addendum: No offense intended Nuntar. I would honestly be 50x more interested and excited to play your DROD 5 hold (the first ever usermade one?) than to play another version of KDD.
Offence? That's one of the best things anyone's ever said to me :D

And you will. I've just renewed my CaravelNet subscription so that I can start a beta board for Bubble Wrap, and I'll do that as soon as I've finished Sixth Level. I'm looking forward to seeing what you think of it.

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06-11-2014 at 03:26 PM
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RabidChild
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 icon Re: King Dugan's Dungeon 5.0 (+1)  
I think there's been some discussion of this already, but given that 5.0 supports different "skins" for the five main holds, complete with the original title screens, end credits, etc., it would make sense for Caravel to stop distributing earlier versions of the engine altogether, but just package the older holds with the new engine instead. Anyone who's already bought one of the previous versions would be able to upgrade to 5.0. When that happens, it would make sense to update all the main holds, not just KDD, with challenges and maybe some cosmetic improvements.
gamer_extreme_101 wrote:
Instead of looking for a bunch of new fancy features, can't we do a demake now that we have 4.0+ remakes of the original AE styles? Simply change all the rooms to be using those styles instead? I think that would honestly be using the 5.0 engine for the best it can do, and we can make it compatable with (3.0?)4.0 and above instead of just 5.0.
In 5.0, if you have the AE styles installed and import an AE hold, it will use them automatically. So, all you'd have to do would be install the AE styles and import the original KDD. It wouldn't look exactly the same, because the wall textures work a bit differently, but it's pretty close.
06-11-2014 at 03:56 PM
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TheEpickz98
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 icon Re: King Dugan's Dungeon 5.0 (-1)  
Why not just make a new hold and call it King Dugan's Dungeon Returned, or King Dugan's Revenge, completely different but with the new elements, revisited rooms and new puzzles. Maybe make it a Smite Master Selection, so that when players complete the original KDD, they can go strait to the next, so like a mini series I guess.
06-13-2014 at 06:45 AM
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Zaratustra00
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 icon Re: King Dugan's Dungeon 5.0 (+1)  
why not just make a new 25-level hold? Because that would take roughly ten times as long, I assume.
06-13-2014 at 10:54 AM
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Nuntar
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 icon Re: King Dugan's Dungeon 5.0 (0)  
More like a hundred, actually. As I said, I started this to give myself a break from Bubble Wrap, and it's helped -- I feel refreshed and ready to do some more architecture.

Meanwhile, a progress report on this. I've added two more challenges, and played through the first 24 levels obtaining all challenges (thus testing that they were scripted correctly to award the challenge when achieved). Level 25 has a couple of challenges that are too difficult for me at the moment -- though I solved some on Level 17 that I thought were too difficult for me, so you never know!

In doing this, I noticed many more opportunities to add checkpoints, which I've done. I'd like some second opinions on a couple of them.

L22 1S1W: The single existing checkpoint is inadequate, as you can only reach it moving N and E, which may be tricky depending on the current positions of the mimics. I'd like to add another one. Any preferences as to location -- halfway down, or closer to the SE corner?

L22 1N1W: This (admittedly easy) room has no checkpoint. Any suggestions for a good location?

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 06-16-2014 09:27 PM]
06-16-2014 at 02:03 PM
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KevG
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 icon Re: King Dugan's Dungeon 5.0 (+2)  
This seems like a great idea. Now that we have the ability to script challenges it makes sense to redo the hold(s) with the most challenges. Besides, someone is going to do it. Better to do it semi-officially.

Anyway, for 1S1W I watched a few of the demos and it seems that (27,23) would be a good place for another checkpoint. Although mainly I'd recommend closer to the halfway mark than towards the bottom.

For 1N1W I'd recommend (11,18). Not a hard recommendation, pretty much anywhere should work.

If you're having too much trouble with the challenges, tell us which ones. Chances are someone could make a demo in 4.0 for you. Of course once 5.0 drops I'd be glad to help playtest if you need help.
06-16-2014 at 03:44 PM
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Nuntar
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 icon Re: King Dugan's Dungeon 5.0 (+3)  
KevG wrote: If you're having too much trouble with the challenges, tell us which ones. Chances are someone could make a demo in 4.0 for you. Of course once 5.0 drops I'd be glad to help playtest if you need help.
That won't be necessary :D Got them all now!

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06-16-2014 at 10:04 PM
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Rabscuttle
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 icon Re: King Dugan's Dungeon 5.0 (0)  
Nuntar wrote:

L22 1S1W: The single existing checkpoint is inadequate, as you can only reach it moving N and E, which may be tricky depending on the current positions of the mimics. I'd like to add another one. Any preferences as to location -- halfway down, or closer to the SE corner?

Mimics also trigger checkpoints, so you could add some inside the NW area.

L22 1N1W: This (admittedly easy) room has no checkpoint. Any suggestions for a good location?

One near each of the orbs in the open. Maybe one in the alcove by the trapdoors.
06-17-2014 at 02:15 AM
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Moo
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 icon Re: King Dugan's Dungeon 5.0 (0)  
Regardless of any other versions... How feasible is it to get KDDL (Flash DROD KDD) converted into 5.0? The smaller rooms could be centered and surrounded by pretty stuff. Entrances could be extended with passages. Where a longer entrance passage would interfere with the puzzle, that room could be shifted to one edge to remove the longer passage. There would only be problems if there was more than one entrance that needed this...
06-18-2014 at 01:35 PM
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skell
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 icon Re: King Dugan's Dungeon 5.0 (+3)  
Moo wrote:
Regardless of any other versions... How feasible is it to get KDDL (Flash DROD KDD) converted into 5.0? The smaller rooms could be centered and surrounded by pretty stuff. Entrances could be extended with passages. Where a longer entrance passage would interfere with the puzzle, that room could be shifted to one edge to remove the longer passage. There would only be problems if there was more than one entrance that needed this...
Ugh. I don't like this even a little bit. Just what point is for it, really? I know remakes are all rage in books, games, movies, comics and all other kinds of media, but why make the same set of puzzles available in 5 different places? (AE, KDD2.0, KDD2.0 Remixed, KDDL and KDDL in 5.0?) For the love's sake, TSS adds dozens of new features, go play with them once you can and stop remaking stuff :P.

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06-18-2014 at 02:04 PM
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Moo
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 icon Re: King Dugan's Dungeon 5.0 (0)  
Well, I'm thinking for new players... It'd be kind of odd for them to find out after buying the new TSS that to play the only other official hold with challenges/achievements, and the best version (currently) of the most well-known hold, they need to use a browser rather than the actual game...
06-18-2014 at 05:20 PM
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mrimer
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 icon Re: King Dugan's Dungeon 5.0 (0)  
I'm with skell on this one. That doesn't seem to be that big of a concern to me. I don't foresee new players seeking out the most well-known hold (historically), but rather asking what would be the "best" hold for them to play next after TSS. In which case, I'd want to refer them to JtRH and then TCB.

However, it looks like we're already well on our way to having a KDD 2.0 upgraded with challenges. So, if a new player is still wanting to play KDD, why would we not want them to direct them to that experience, rather than a Frankenstein version of KDDL?

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[Last edited by mrimer at 06-18-2014 05:28 PM]
06-18-2014 at 05:25 PM
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robin
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 icon Re: King Dugan's Dungeon 5.0 (+1)  
I have made the FlashDROD hold in 4.0 for my own use,
so if somebody gets stuck I can watch my demo's there.
But to make the rooms match the Flash version demo's, the hold looks very bad and unprofessional.
I'll probably ad the challenges in 5.0,
but I won't be publishing the hold
(Unless a Flash dev asks for it)

So what I'm actually saying is that I agree with skell and Mike.

The thing with KDD is that many times,
people refer to it as "bad" hold for newbies.
And for historical reasons people probably want that to change.

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06-18-2014 at 06:32 PM
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Jacob
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 icon Re: King Dugan's Dungeon 5.0 (0)  
"Easy or Hard" by larrymurk would benefit from the challenge system

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06-19-2014 at 07:59 AM
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coppro
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 icon Re: King Dugan's Dungeon 5.0 (0)  
With regards to styles, my vote is (still) to preserving the original AE styles (as modified for the 22x22 engine).
[Last edited by coppro at 06-26-2014 07:10 AM]
06-26-2014 at 07:10 AM
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Zaratustra00
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 icon Re: King Dugan's Dungeon 5.0 (+3)  
Another suggestion that may be of interest:

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07-12-2014 at 04:55 PM
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Fang
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 icon Re: King Dugan's Dungeon 5.0 (0)  
That's incredibly nice.

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07-12-2014 at 05:04 PM
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Chaco
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 icon Re: King Dugan's Dungeon 5.0 (+1)  
Zaratustra00 wrote:
Another suggestion that may be of interest:
Hey, they finally got the elevator working! Great!

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[Last edited by Chaco at 07-12-2014 05:17 PM]
07-12-2014 at 05:17 PM
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Jacob
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 icon Re: King Dugan's Dungeon 5.0 (0)  
Great idea

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07-12-2014 at 05:27 PM
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