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coredusk
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icon The Core Dusk Hold - an Architect Edition dungeon (+1)  
Hi everybody,

I hope you're going to enjoy The Core Dusk Hold! Currently uploading for the first time, with 4 levels for you, all finished!

I'm working pretty seriously on this hold, and I think it's gonna be a pretty good one because:

(put "I tried to make (it)" in front of everything)

- straightforward enough, you should always know how to start, where to go, and how to begin the room.

- implemented story, although I do not know how much sense it'd make for you guys - please let me know if players here have an idea of where the story is going

- tricky parts - I always tried to have most of the rooms (yes, most of :huh ) not TOO hard, in the way that there's mostly a 'trick' after which you'll beat it without too much complications

- nice level design(?) I personally like the second and fourth level qua design..

So, I hope people are going to enjoy this, I wanted to upload now to find fixes and retrieve opinions, and with that in mind I'm continuing to lvl 5 and beyond!

EDIT: attached v2: reworked first level
EDIT: attached v4: minor changes & fixes

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[Last edited by coredusk at 01-15-2012 11:43 AM : Attaching v4]
11-30-2011 at 10:02 AM
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Blondbeard
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Have just played a few rooms. Some feedback:

- straightforward enough, you should always know how to start, where to go, and how to begin the room.

Not really. I found you got stuck with no way back in many rooms. I'm sure it's solvable eventually, but it wasn't easy to navigate (I used the crumbly wall exit in the first room).

- implemented story, although I do not know how much sense it'd make for you guys - please let me know if players here have an idea of where the story is going

Can't really comment on this.

- tricky parts - I always tried to have most of the rooms (yes, most of ) not TOO hard, in the way that there's mostly a 'trick' after which you'll beat it without too much complications

The rooms I saw was mostly "drop a bunch of trapdoors, kill the monsters" I do like trapdoor puzzles, but trivial trapdoor-dropping in order to give queens a possibility to grow is kind of tedious. A better way (as I see it) is to place lots of monsters in the first place, if that's what you want.

- nice level design(?) I personally like the second and fourth level qua design..

I just played a few rooms, so I wouldn't know :) Hope I don't sound too criticle... I honestly think you ought to find ways to make some rooms less tedious though, and that it would be nice if you could traverse the level without getting stuck.
11-30-2011 at 02:26 PM
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coredusk
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Blondbeard wrote:
Not really. I found you got stuck with no way back in many rooms. I'm sure it's solvable eventually, but it wasn't easy to navigate (I used the crumbly wall exit in the first room).
Well I've tested this before and with exception of the first room, you can get to every room back and forth normally. All mimics in the first level are only for returning purposes.

But when I ponder about it you certainly are right that the road must not be very obvious on a first play.
Do you suggest me to make the rooms more accessible or rather a more obvious route to be present?
Btw using the cracked wall is normally the short road and allows you to do the north room above that really easy.

but trivial trapdoor-dropping in order to give queens a possibility to grow is kind of tedious. A better way (as I see it) is to place lots of monsters in the first place, if that's what you want.
I thought roach queens were basically there to keep you busy while they spawn roaches, and the more efficient you do it, the less roaches there are.
KDD lvl 3 is completally based on queen growth while keeping you busy. Did this really bother you?

It might be worth to tell that the first level was actually the first level making I ever did in DROD, the first room is actually the first room I ever made.
But anyhow, thanks alot for your comment :D It's really nice to have someone play my hold, but if I can ask this, please persist a bit more because from my personal retrospect it gets more decent (the issues you described are less present) from lvl 2 and further.

Thank you for the time playing and posting!

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11-30-2011 at 06:38 PM
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Blondbeard
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Allright. Hmm... Maybe you should remove the shortcut then? It introduced troubles with traversing the hold in multiple rooms. More feedback later.
11-30-2011 at 07:16 PM
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Banjooie
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Well, roach queens are there to produce roaches every 30 turns.

The use of these roaches varies exceedingly widely, especially when you get up to TCB's demo. KDD's level 3 does pretty much consist of 'enjoy running around chasing roach queens', but you're going to find that KDD was also balanced around things like 'no undo button' and the like, so things that were more amazing then are sadly more trite these days.

This isn't meant to discourage, but people are all up and jaded on the various schemes and tricks of KDD. I really recommend grabbing the TCB demo.
12-01-2011 at 01:15 AM
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coredusk
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Banjooie wrote:
This isn't meant to discourage, but people are all up and jaded on the various schemes and tricks of KDD. I really recommend grabbing the TCB demo.
I've only checked the JTRH demo so far, but I'll surely be checking TCB then.
Can you specify what's wrong (or less fun somehow?) about KDD's tricks?

And.. Shall I dump the first level then? :P Or maybe completally rework the level structure

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12-01-2011 at 10:28 AM
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Blondbeard
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Well... Most things that feels trivial and timeconsuming is less fun. When I played KDD AE adition I was mesmerized by stuff I today find quite trivial and boring. You didn't even have a clock, and roach queens was a mistery. Walking through long passages, just for the sake of it, is not fun, for example :)

I'll play on when I have time.

[Last edited by Blondbeard at 12-01-2011 09:25 PM]
12-01-2011 at 01:09 PM
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coredusk
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Well you do have the possibility to press 'enter' and check out the timer, and before I knew that, I just intuitively guessed or counted my moves - hell, I did the triple mother tar room like that.

I'm not quite sure about your point, I've played some levels in TCB demo and did not easily find another roach use. It was mostly -timeconsuming and trivial- roach guiding, and for the maximization of roach queen potential there were basically trapdoors, which aren't there in AE.

Could it be that you are mainly referring to the very first room?
Because the trick there is more 'walk back on the door you open' than 'let lots of roaches spawn', I thought I was quite original in that (that thought has diminished somewhat by now though)

I hope I'm not too much of a critic on critics =) But I certainly appreciate all comments & level plays!

Could you, next time, maybe say which room you find less fun (or just stupid) and what I might change so you'd like it? The hints were still kinda abstract.

Don't hold back on critics, tear my hold down to the ground and I'll make it rise again from the shadows!


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[Last edited by coredusk at 12-02-2011 09:36 AM]
12-02-2011 at 09:34 AM
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Banjooie
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It's...these are introductory levels. I'm not saying you're doing bad--I'm explaining that people who are like AWGH SO SIMPUL (english) are used to the ridiculous unplayably hard nonsense Larrymurk puts out.
12-02-2011 at 10:06 PM
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coredusk
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Ok banjooie, I think I misunderstood your earlier post :)

And just as in KDD (because I'm simply fascinated by it) I tried to introduce people to my style of puzzles, and tried to do some 'themes' per level, though with the newer DROD releases and all the custom holds I don't kow if they're original.

I really was concerning playability of the hold [though I did mess up in the first level travel-wise] , and so there should be challenges which will get some ppl stuck, and fairly doable rooms which require some thinking - but I did not do let's say, 20 places where you could place your mimic wrongly, just for the purpose of trolling, 20 passages with only one without a dead end..

How far have you guys been playing it through? :)
and, am I not posting too much?

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12-02-2011 at 10:35 PM
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Jacob
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Just gave this a go. If you skip 1E (which I did accidentally) and complete all the other rooms, you end up at the last room (with the blue door) without the blue door open, and you're trapped.

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12-03-2011 at 12:09 AM
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coredusk
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icon Re: The Core Dusk Hold - an Architect Edition dungeon (0)  
Ok I've completally reworked the first level.

-From the final room you can now normally return to each other room.
-The road should be more obvious.
-Things should be a little less ugly :p
-2nd, 3rd and 4th level are still included ^^

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12-03-2011 at 01:39 AM
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Blondbeard
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Having played thousands of rooms I probably am a bit hard to please, but here you go:

Click here to view the secret text

That's it for now.



[Last edited by Blondbeard at 12-03-2011 06:19 PM]
12-03-2011 at 06:18 PM
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coredusk
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Blondbeard wrote:
Having played thousands of rooms I probably am a bit hard to please, but here you go:

Click here to view the secret text

That's it for now.

Thank you very much! This is a great reply!
I will seriously think about this, whether to combine multiple rooms into one, or just delete them and start over.

I would also like your personal opinion about rooms in the second level: 1N1W, 2N, 3N - if those rooms are rather enjoyable than trivial and timeconsuming? Or also NOT? :D

I really appreciate the negative comments, because as I said before, the first level is the first level creation I've done, and I think I'm really getting a better feel of what's enjoyable in DROD by your guys comments!

Thank you very much for playing - foundation reworks coming up!

And you guys might have noticed - I liked lvl 15..

EDIT: although my lvl might be fun for noobs no?

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[Last edited by coredusk at 12-04-2011 10:25 AM]
12-04-2011 at 10:24 AM
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Banjooie
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icon Re: The Core Dusk Hold - an Architect Edition dungeon (+1)  
wait wait

Brainaic dislikes it

KEEP IT ON WHATEVER IT IS YOU HAVE IT ON

GO GO GO
12-04-2011 at 09:33 PM
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Blondbeard
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He's right though. Anyone edit is convenient for testers.
12-04-2011 at 09:39 PM
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Jatopian
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why you gotta be that way banj baby

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12-04-2011 at 10:03 PM
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Banjooie
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1275 is a more aesthetically pleasing number than 1276.

wait

wait oh my god do you guys see that signature change

[Last edited by Banjooie at 12-05-2011 12:41 PM]
12-05-2011 at 12:35 PM
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coredusk
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icon Re: The Core Dusk Hold - an Architect Edition dungeon (0)  
Ok, I've tried to understand all comments and adjust the rooms to it.

Some big reworks (might give new unknown issues though):
Edited the following rooms:
Level 1: entrance, 1N, 1N1E, 2N2E, 1N3E, 3E, 1S3E
Level 2: 1E

Will certainly edit: level 2: 2N1E to just make it less 'timeconsuming'
But I'd like some comments on these reworks, and lvl 3 and 4, before I'm doing more major changes.

v2 with the earlier first level in the original post, v3 in this post.
Hold is anyone edit now, sorry about that.
Just mentioning again that this is my first level creating!

Let me know what you guys think!
CoreDusk

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12-07-2011 at 12:27 PM
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coredusk
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Long time no reply. People still playing this?
Or is it too bad xD

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12-13-2011 at 12:48 PM
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Jacob
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I've had a look at level 1, which is much better than the first iteration.

Can write some comments at some point, but not for the next couple of days.

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12-13-2011 at 03:40 PM
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Blondbeard
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I've been very buisy :(
12-13-2011 at 08:38 PM
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Chaco
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icon Re: The Core Dusk Hold - an Architect Edition dungeon (0)  
I have some comments about all the rooms in the levels; I played version 2 and then noticed version 3 was available and I liked the changes that were made.

-

Overall, I'd like to say that I really like that we have a new architect here who's ready to make an easy-difficulty hold, because we really need more of those around here - easy-difficulty holds that are fun to play. Unfortunately, I pretty much blasted through this in about an hour and I thought most of the rooms were pretty forgettable - either just straight horde situations without a lot of monsters or trapdoor dropping rooms, which most of us on the forum are already familiar with, or some pretty staple puzzles (toggle the door, open all the doors, use a mimic to kill monsters, etc.)

I think you have some good rooms in this hold, but I think there are some other rooms which would be better to either rework or take out entirely. If you had a two-level hold with twenty interesting, novel takes on old concepts, that'd be much better than the hold you have now, which has rooms with two thousand spiders and a mimic, and rooms where the only puzzle is to open doors to get at monsters. They aren't tricky to clear at all and I don't think they're much fun.

-

So although I think there's room for improvement, this is at least a good start and I'd love to offer some encouraging words in this post to offset the criticisms I have in this text file. :)

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12-19-2011 at 09:57 PM
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coredusk
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Thank you very very much Chaco!

I will read this thoroughly and do a LOT of level editing so my hold can become better! Added textfile and everything, it's really appreciated =D

Yes indeed, the same trick is the key to alot of rooms, I did this thinking of it as a 'guidance' through the levels. Is it a bad idea?

And of what I'm meta-wondering: Should I allow extra possibilities that can never work out, just to make things more tricky? I'm thinking of more places to look like the mimic should go there, making it look like the room's progressing while you're doing it wrong, etc...
Is that considered rather 'harder' than 'timeconsuming'?

I really appreciate the feedback, with it I hope my hold will become something worthy of playing and of course, lots more fun!

CoreDusk

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12-20-2011 at 02:23 PM
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Blondbeard
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The level 2 rooms you asked about:

1N1W: Perfectly fine room, but why no checkpoints?

2N: There's something quite asthetically pleasing with a room like this

3N: Perfectly all right room.

I don't really have all that much to say. Sure, it's kind of trivial if you've played lots of DROD, but in a quite pleasing way. I like 2N the best :)

[Last edited by Blondbeard at 12-21-2011 09:41 AM]
12-21-2011 at 09:29 AM
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Dark Path into The Core Dusk Hold
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I am liking this hold so far. There is nothing too difficult here and some of the rooms seem rather well-thought-out. I shall test more of the levels later.

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12-27-2011 at 11:39 PM
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coredusk
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icon Re: The Core Dusk Hold - an Architect Edition dungeon (0)  
Everyone thanks alot for all the comments!
Especially Chaco, with epic precision obviously showing me where there's room for improvement!

I've done tons of minor changes... Hopefully making some rooms harder, some rooms less waste of time, fixing some unintended solutions, ...

I'll include the file in an edit in my original post.

Thank you all for contributing, hope you enjoy TCDH!
EDIT: As I might have said, I want these first four levels to be allright before I start with new content, I need to find 'the touch'

CoreDusk

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[Last edited by coredusk at 01-15-2012 11:48 AM]
01-15-2012 at 11:40 AM
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Suwako
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Conquered, my comments are:

The first level consist on trapdoor puzzles with more elements, and even easy i liked all the rooms.

I found the second level the best, because the rooms are of varied types and good.

The third level is at the start bit repetitive with mimics and onslaught of monsters, but by the end of the level, it goes good including more elements. So take as a suggestion remove or change some of that rooms that only consist on" put a mimic there, activate the orb, and kill". These rooms i mean are 1W, 1N 1W and 2W.

Also note that i went to the fourth level without visiting 1N 1E and 1E, because of 2S 2W have a green door to the exit, remove this green door and put it near the arrow to go back and forcing the player to conquer the rooms that i mention before

I liked a lot the fourth level, especially 1S 1E, where you need put the three roach exactly in the three serpents chambers, and I found 2S 1E a simple straight room.

I think this hold is rather easy and fun :) .

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01-16-2012 at 02:39 PM
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