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Chaco
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Yeah, I inserted another room into level 2, in the orthosquare wing. I figured I was only emphasizing Tscott's wonderful queen widget, and not orthosquares.

I'm figuring I'll introduce them "for real" a bit later on, perhaps with wubbas.

Anyway, for the version of the queen and trapdoors prison without the trapdoors, I can just say that you need to kill several at the beginning and then fight it out gradually against the rest.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 08-26-2006 10:06 PM]
08-26-2006 at 10:05 PM
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bandit1200
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It's the ones that start with red walls and yellow walls around them where I have problems, though I guess the same advice applies.
08-27-2006 at 02:44 AM
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Chaco
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Oh, it's the other set of secret rooms, the "do X and then the queens go everywhere".

For the red door room, you need to get as many queens out of their eye traps as possible. That way they clump up and produce fewer roaches.

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08-27-2006 at 04:18 AM
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ChrisB
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I cannot get the four top roaches in L2 1S3W. Are they killable?

Chris

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08-28-2006 at 02:00 PM
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bandit1200
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ChrisB wrote:
I cannot get the four top roaches in L2 1S3W. Are they killable?

Chris
Yes. Remember an orb can affect a door in more than one way.
08-28-2006 at 02:07 PM
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ChrisB
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bandit1200 wrote:
ChrisB wrote:
I cannot get the four top roaches in L2 1S3W. Are they killable?

Chris
Yes. Remember an orb can affect a door in more than one way.

Thanks Bandit

I will look closer next time - honest!!!

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If the pen is mightier than the sword, why does Beethro not use a pen??
The pen may be mightier than the sword, but it's no match for an AK47!!
08-28-2006 at 07:37 PM
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Chaco
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Sorry about that. That room is supposed to teach you to click on orbs so you know what they do. If you didn't know already.

Note that although those two rooms make use of the backswipe, I teach it in another room in this level, so you could get frustrated, leave the room, then wander around and find the backswipe room, come back, then try it with that technique and succeed.

I'd try and force the backswipe room to be done first, but that'd require room reshuffling. And the fact that that knowledge is required seems to do the job fine.

Keep going! The roaches are only the start of this hold. :)

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08-28-2006 at 07:42 PM
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Jacob
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Just to say that I'm enjoying this epic hold (up to the Copycat complex now) and will start posting comments soon.

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08-30-2006 at 11:16 AM
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ChrisB
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Sorry - me again!! Though I have worked from Level 2 up to eight in a couple of days and really enjoying the Hold - nice work.

Am stuck in eight and completed all but 1S (not required) and 2N2E where I can kill all the baddies but cannot escape because the blue doors trap me. Have read earlier posts saying how it can be done without the mimic, etc. but I can only find a way where Beethro has to kill the eyes.

Am I missing something again or is there another problem?

Cheers
Chris

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If the pen is mightier than the sword, why does Beethro not use a pen??
The pen may be mightier than the sword, but it's no match for an AK47!!
08-30-2006 at 09:49 PM
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Chaco
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I think the scripting is a little non-obvious in this room :/

Have you tried hitting the orb in the force arrow trap? Those mimics do stuff.

I'm thinking of color-coding the floor. Once bombs show up in level thirteen this should get a little easier.

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08-30-2006 at 09:51 PM
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ChrisB
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Chaco wrote:
I think the scripting is a little non-obvious in this room :/

Have you tried hitting the orb in the force arrow trap? Those mimics do stuff.

I'm thinking of color-coding the floor. Once bombs show up in level thirteen this should get a little easier.

Oh! Cheeky Chaco & sneaky too! If in doubt try the non-obvious will be my motto for the rest of your hold. I can sleep at ease now till tomorrow evening's session.

Cheers
Chris

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If the pen is mightier than the sword, why does Beethro not use a pen??
The pen may be mightier than the sword, but it's no match for an AK47!!
08-30-2006 at 10:03 PM
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ChrisB
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Hi Chaco

Finally palyed through to the end - I think!

I did manage to get a Hold Completed message without doing the second half of Level IX, but I cannot remember which exit I took.

Notes:-

L 1 is showing as only 25% explored but I can see no way to visit the rest of the level.

L 5 2N2E have beaten the room several times but as it is only a one-in one-out room, it is not showing in the restore screen as having been completed, therefore impossible to get 100% for the hold.

A very good hold - not too difficult with some nice puzzles - well done Chaco.

Cheers
Chris



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If the pen is mightier than the sword, why does Beethro not use a pen??
The pen may be mightier than the sword, but it's no match for an AK47!!

[Last edited by ChrisB at 09-04-2006 09:35 PM]
09-04-2006 at 09:34 PM
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Chaco
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I mentioned this earlier in the thread - it's because there are some rooms you can only get to in the editor that makes it look better.

EDIT:

The end hold stairs are supposed to be at level X 1S4E (south of the warp room) Did the hold end at the end of the mud half of level IX, or did you go from IX back to X, through the tunnel, and to the end hold stairs?

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[Last edited by Chaco at 09-04-2006 11:34 PM]
09-04-2006 at 11:02 PM
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Ezlo
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You know, backtracking from level 3 to level 2 takes you to the start of level 2, not the end.
09-05-2006 at 02:23 AM
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Chaco
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Ah, great. Stairs again?!?

Well, alright. It'll get fixed in the next update. Not right now, but when level 11 is done - which will take a while, since there's school and... well... rooms. Seriously, you guys are gonna like it.

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09-05-2006 at 02:52 AM
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Ezlo
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Also, the stairs from the tar and trapdoors secret room in level 10 end the hold.

Can't wait to see level 11. What is it?
09-05-2006 at 03:03 AM
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Chaco
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Did you read the scrolls in the warp room? Heck, you even commented on it.

Ezlo happened to write on Page 6 of this thread:
Sounds like fun. Just make them easier than your community project level.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 09-05-2006 03:44 AM]
09-05-2006 at 03:43 AM
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Ezlo
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Oops. Call it Middle-Term Memory Loss.
09-05-2006 at 03:55 AM
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Jacob
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My comments so far (there may be overlap with other people's comments, I've not read them all)
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09-05-2006 at 03:26 PM
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Chaco
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Alright, I just read everything you said.

...Jacob, you're even more right than I thought you would be. I suppose I'll... well... do stuff about what you said.

One thing's for sure though - the tar maze is gone.

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09-05-2006 at 03:41 PM
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ChrisB
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Chaco wrote:
I mentioned this earlier in the thread - it's because there are some rooms you can only get to in the editor that makes it look better.

EDIT:

The end hold stairs are supposed to be at level X 1S4E (south of the warp room) Did the hold end at the end of the mud half of level IX, or did you go from IX back to X, through the tunnel, and to the end hold stairs?

Stairs in level 9 2S7W exit the hold without touching level 10.

Cheers
Chris

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If the pen is mightier than the sword, why does Beethro not use a pen??
The pen may be mightier than the sword, but it's no match for an AK47!!
09-05-2006 at 04:17 PM
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Chaco
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You mean 2N7W?

In which case you'd be right, because I had not assigned it properly. :/

I've already deleted all of the detail and staircase rooms, which should lower the filesize quite a bit. Later, I'll have to re-organize the rooms. Perhaps the simpler roach puzzles created first on one level, and then later another level with tougher roach puzzles?

I'll have to look into it, since many rooms will need redesigning if I have to rotate them 90 degrees. Either that or up the difficulty of the hold by *only* providing tough roach puzzles.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 09-05-2006 04:27 PM]
09-05-2006 at 04:26 PM
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Jacob
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Forgot to come back and say that I finished the hold and that the mud rooms are all pretty good. No complaints.
You've written in your first post, and your sig that the hold is currently 11 levels long. It's 10 right? Or am I missing something?

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09-18-2006 at 11:20 PM
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Chaco
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*sigh* I counted level IX as two levels in that count. I'll revert to the normal way from now on.

After I get done with some other projects, I'm thinking of making a new roach level entirely and seeing how it plays in relation to the other one. If I did the whole hold that way it'd be more consistent, fixing Jacob's comment.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 09-19-2006 02:01 AM]
09-19-2006 at 02:01 AM
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Jeff_Ray...
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Well, when will you be done with level 11?

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09-22-2006 at 07:34 PM
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Chaco
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Level 11 - rock golems - has been postponed until after I'm less busy and get the new level 1 done. After that, I think I might make the rest of the levels over again, and *then* do level 11. I think I might also re-order the elements, possibly introducing bombs earlier so I have to do less scripting.

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09-22-2006 at 07:46 PM
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Ezlo
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I find that the smae thing is happening to me, the more I work on my hold, the better I become, and the worse the begining of it becomes. I'm currently reworking the first few levels of my hold too!
09-22-2006 at 10:53 PM
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Chaco
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Alright, all of the previous levels and rooms have been moved behind a master wall. That is to say, they will be when the hold is published.

"What Almost Was"

Other things:

1. Due to Banjooie making a big deal about it, the plot in level I has been changed to make me a good deal less friendly to you.

2. The staircase in I3N, instead of leading to the old level 2, now leads to the new level 2, which is an easy warm-up level that works with roaches, tunnels, and trapdoors. Level 3 will have more difficult roach puzzles along with some other elements.

3. All of the detail rooms that were only accessible in the editor have been removed.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 09-29-2006 12:57 AM]
09-29-2006 at 12:54 AM
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Banjooie
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One thread, and saying 'it's fine in non-canon holds, but somebody do it the other way' is a big deal? >_>
09-29-2006 at 10:45 AM
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Ezlo
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Well, he decided to do it the other way for you. As like, a late birthday present or something. :)

Downloading now.
09-29-2006 at 01:13 PM
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