Re: Chaco's Dungeon

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Chaco
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

...the secret room doesn't have a decoy in it.

Or, the secret room doesn't let you

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.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 07-30-2006 03:31 PM]

07-30-2006 at 03:31 PM

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bandit1200
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

LMAO! I must be blind! I have done the original room the hard way every time since you first released level 8. :lol

07-30-2006 at 03:56 PM

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Kevin_P86
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

bandit1200 wrote:
Level 10, 2N5W has got me stumped totally. I'm usually ok with trapdoor puzzles but I'm failing here. Tips? Even if only where to start.

It might help to know a little about Graph Theory...

You are interested in forming what's called an Euler Path, a path (not necessarily starting and ending in the same place) which coveres each edge exactly once.

There is a theorem regarding Euler Paths: any graph G has an Euler Path if and only if there are 0 or 2 vertices with odd degree. (It turns out if there is no vertices of odd degree, then there exists an Euler Circuit, which is an Euler Path that starts and ends on the same vertex). A vertex (island) of odd degree is a vertex with an odd number of edges (bridges) connecting to it.

In this case, you have exactly two vertices (islands) with odd degree, so the theorem states that there exists an Euler Path. If there are two vertices of odd degree, the Theorem also tells us the starting / ending points of this path: the two vertices of odd degree, of course.

So, even if none of that made sense, all you need to know is

Click here to view the secret text

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07-30-2006 at 06:20 PM

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Kevin_P86
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

bandit1200 wrote:
LMAO! I must be blind! I have done the original room the hard way every time since you first released level 8.

I did too - I never thought of hitting the orb with the decoy. And besides, that would get really annoying really fast...

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07-30-2006 at 06:22 PM

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bandit1200
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

Kevin_P86 wrote:

bandit1200 wrote:
Level 10, 2N5W has got me stumped totally. I'm usually ok with trapdoor puzzles but I'm failing here. Tips? Even if only where to start.

It might help to know a little about Graph Theory...

You are interested in forming what's called an Euler Path, a path (not necessarily starting and ending in the same place) which coveres each edge exactly once.

There is a theorem regarding Euler Paths: any graph G has an Euler Path if and only if there are 0 or 2 vertices with odd degree. (It turns out if there is no vertices of odd degree, then there exists an Euler Circuit, which is an Euler Path that starts and ends on the same vertex). A vertex (island) of odd degree is a vertex with an odd number of edges (bridges) connecting to it.

In this case, you have exactly two vertices (islands) with odd degree, so the theorem states that there exists an Euler Path. If there are two vertices of odd degree, the Theorem also tells us the starting / ending points of this path: the two vertices of odd degree, of course.

You are talking to an uneducated man who managed to be last in mathematics 40 odd years ago. This may as well be in a foreign languge.

Heh! I don't even know if that is anything to do with maths - or "math" if you aren't in the UK.

So, even if none of that made sense, all you need to know is
Click here to view the secret text
×To start and end on the top-middle and bottom-middle islands (it doesn't matter which is the start and which is the end, of course)

Thanks, I'll give that a go.

(a while later) I still didn't manage it. I think a "damn!" would be appropriate here.

07-30-2006 at 10:30 PM

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Chaco
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

This one's interesting to optimize - you can cut corners in the path.

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07-30-2006 at 10:42 PM

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Kevin_P86
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (+1)

bandit1200 wrote:
Thanks, I'll give that a go.

(a while later) I still didn't manage it. I think a "damn!" would be appropriate here.

You just need to be careful not to leave any vertices with a single bridge coming out of it, unless it is the point you intend to end on.

If that still doesn't help, number the islands, like so:

 1   2   3   4   5
 6   7   8   9  10
11  12  13  14  15
16  17  18  19  20

Then,

Click here to view the secret text

That is, of course, just one possible solution.

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07-31-2006 at 04:22 AM

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bandit1200
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

Chaco wrote:
This one's interesting to optimize - you can cut corners in the path.

Oddly enough, when my caravelnet account expired, I gave up optimising rooms.

07-31-2006 at 10:58 AM

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bandit1200
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

Thanks Kevin! After the first 3 moves it suddenly became obvious what to do. I'd even tried it numerous times in a paint program and the nearest I could get was with 4 sets of trapdoors left so I ended up having to take a peek.

07-31-2006 at 11:59 AM

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bandit1200
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

I've done all the rooms on the left side of level 10 but can't get to the right side because of the blue door. Am I right in thinking this also stops me reaching the left side of level 9?

How do you get to

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07-31-2006 at 02:08 PM

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Chaco
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

Uh, there is no secret room in the SE of level 8.

You're quite right about the fact that the blue door is supposed to drop after you're done in the Trapdoor Building, so it's probably that unaccessible detail room again. :/

I'll go fix it...

EDIT:

Done. I also had a new idea for a puzzle while I was doing that, so now, after several revisions, there is a puzzle in one of the empty rooms of level seven.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 07-31-2006 03:42 PM]

07-31-2006 at 02:35 PM

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bandit1200
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

Chaco wrote:
Uh, there is no secret room in the SE of level 8.

Well, I was trying not to be too specific, but it's at

Click here to view the secret text

07-31-2006 at 04:37 PM

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Chaco
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

That's not a secret room, it's an editor room. In that it's something you would only see in the editor.

Presumably it goes down to the staircase of the "room full of tar" room, but it's blocked by tar in that room.

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07-31-2006 at 05:23 PM

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bandit1200
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

Oh, OK. I guess I'm easily fooled when the room is marked secret.

The new room in level 7 is ok, but all I did was park the first three mimics in their final resting places, then clean up with the last one. That was after I figured out why there were no roaches in the room when I started it.

I've played the full hold as far as I can in the game, but have no idea how to get to the left hand side of level 9

[Last edited by bandit1200 at 07-31-2006 07:42 PM]

07-31-2006 at 06:51 PM

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Chaco
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

Yah - left hand side of level 9 is accessed in that southern staircase in level 10 opposite the one you came from from the right half of 9.

To do that though you have to go through the prison, which I haven't completed yet.

...so I guess I'll start doing that after I fill in the empty passageways on the other levels.

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07-31-2006 at 08:01 PM

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Chaco
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

New Version!

No, the Middle Prison is not done yet (though there are some nice junction rooms which I made and added to it)

What's of more interest is the fact that I added several roach queen rooms and evil eye rooms. There's a wing based on Channel One Suite's "beam eyes", but I think the puzzle at the end of it takes it one step further.

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08-08-2006 at 05:23 PM

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bandit1200
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

It's said 11 levels for the last couple of updates but I'm still only seeing 10 levels, even in the editor.

08-08-2006 at 07:01 PM

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Chaco
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

Well, I meant 11 level-equivalents. It's levels 1 through 8, both halves of level 9 and the Trapdoor Building.

I'm still making rooms. The next update will have the Middle Prison finished, which will also make the mud half of 9 playable in-game. After that I think level eleven is going to be rock golems.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 08-08-2006 10:40 PM]

08-08-2006 at 10:39 PM

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Ezlo
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

Sounds like fun. Just make them easier than your community project level.

08-09-2006 at 02:32 AM

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Chaco
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

Oh, of course I'll make it easier than my Community Project level... to start out.

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08-09-2006 at 02:37 AM

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bandit1200
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

Level 5, 3N3E. You can't kill the eyes at the NW corner and the NE corner without being spotted.

I really like the idea behind 3N2E, though I found it easier than it first looks.

I still can't beat the secret room on this level.

It would help if you mentioned which levels have had rooms added and which rooms have been altered, especially when its in levels that appear to have been otherwise finished. It was purely by chance that I noticed the entrance to level 5 had been altered.

08-09-2006 at 07:46 AM

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Chaco
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

Oh, I'm sorry. I'll do that from now on. But I figured having just a few would be more of a good introduction before... lots.

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08-09-2006 at 02:53 PM

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bandit1200
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

I've certainly got nothing against you adding more rooms, or adding *to* rooms; the more the merrier. But because the game will still think I have completed at least the first 8 levels, I may miss any you add. Obviously, it won't matter to new players.

08-09-2006 at 06:46 PM

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Jeff_Ray...
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

Ok, so i try ingame, and i can't get to Riches Roaches, Level 2.
I checked in the editor, and one inaccessible room is required!

I hate this. Alot.

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08-18-2006 at 11:40 PM

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Chaco
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

Really? I'm pretty sure I playtested that.

Which room on level 1 is required?

In the meantime, you can play the other levels - the staircases actually work. Alternatively, play in the editor - it's Anyone Edit.

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08-19-2006 at 03:24 AM

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Jacob
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

I can confirm that too. There are two required rooms, one on the west and one on the east. Please correct it and I'll start playtesting (since ideally I'd want to play from start to finish, rather than randomly in the editor).

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08-19-2006 at 02:01 PM

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Chaco
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

Well, I'm honored. Jacob wants to playtest the hold.

Anyway, I fixed the aforementioned problems in this thread. I played through the entire hold, by myself, from start to finish. It's effective, really - I found a couple subtle bugs which I squashed, as well as adding checkpoints and some extra rooms.

The new version finishes the first ten levels. The Middle Prison is complete, allowing normal access to the left half of 9. In addition, there are no more blank rooms.

Unfortunately, it's impossible to explore levels 100%, due to rooms only viewable in the editor. Rest assured that when you have found all the secrets in the level, you are done.

Remember guys, the warp room is available should you decide to use it. Warping to level 10 goes to a sub-warp room which will eventually lead to levels 11 through 19. For now it goes to 10 and the left half of 9.

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08-23-2006 at 07:58 PM

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bandit1200
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

I played through levels 9 and 10 and found no problems, except for a couple of secrets in level 10 that I couldn't beat. Admittedly, I didn't try for long because the roach queens thing had become a bit old. The only thing that niggled me was the two southernmost secrets where I beat the second one but had trouble with the first. Because there's no way to backtrack, I had to do a restore and replay the second one later.

08-26-2006 at 09:03 AM

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Chaco
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

Yeah, I might get rid of that green door. The roach is what forces you to play the room like you would the original.

Would you like hints for that secret, or do you think you want to get that one on your own? I have to admit, it's not very easy.

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08-26-2006 at 11:39 AM

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bandit1200
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Re: Chaco's Dungeon (0)

Chaco wrote:
Would you like hints for that secret, or do you think you want to get that one on your own? I have to admit, it's not very easy.

It's the two together at the top that I gave up on, I managed the rest. If there's a trick to those two I'd like a tip or two, but if it's basically horde management, I'm not bothered about trying to beat them. I've not done too bad since I think I've only been beaten by/given up on, about 4 secrets, and all have lots of queens in them - unless you have inserted more rooms in earlier levels that I haven't noticed. I might restart the hold as I've enjoyed it enough to play it again

08-26-2006 at 07:16 PM

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