Kwerulous
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File: Beethro and the Cake.hold (28.1 KB)
Downloaded 53 times.
License: Public Domain

This hold has been published - find it on the holds board here.

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[Last edited by Kwerulous at 02-03-2014 08:24 AM]

Red-XIII
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Hello I started playing this hold and it's really really fun so far!
Here's some comments:


Butter:


This is what I played so far, I'll continue to play in these days, I like this hold

P.S. Though there's seem to be no backtracking issue I suggest to make the hold anyone edit until it's completely tested.
EDIT: Attachment removed

____________________________
There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

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[Last edited by Red-XIII at 04-18-2013 06:30 AM]

Kwerulous
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Hi Red-XIII, thanks for taking the time with this. I'm glad you're enjoying it!

1: Lemons
1N - the intention was for the clone to be placed just east of the roach directly north from the potion's position, so that you can catch it before it goes into the trap. I just tried your alternative solution and I personally feel it's a *little* trickier so I don't think I'll do anything to prevent it.

1N2E: I have no idea how you did this with only one mirror!

2N1E: Ah, I see. The original solution was to use the inactive clone as a wall for protection, but then I found an alternative where you place the clone at the top of the room and switch back and forth. You seem to have found a third solution! I think I want to leave all three options available (keeping in mind that I *want* this to be a beginner hold).

2: Sugar
1E: I see your point. It was basically the introduction/warm up room, and a way of leading off to the secret area.

1W: "a bit boring"? I can't have that. I actually quite liked this room. Would it help if there was just the rattlesnake or just the adder?

1S1W: no those crumbly walls are just decoration. (I used crumbly instead of regular since they're a different colour, that's all).

3: Butter
2S1E: Yeah, there are probably a few different ways of approaching this. The intention was to use the decoys on the southern and eastern blobs and have beethro cut the north blob on his way past.

1S1E: "not my type of room": fair enough. I quite like it though since it's not very easy to mess up or get swarmed whilst still being a bit more of an 'action' room.

1S1W: I watched your demo. It's essentially exactly as intended, except you're supposed to use a tar or mud baby to hold the single tile pressure plate in the centre. I might see if I can enforce this.


Right, I will get an 'anyone edit' copy attached to the first post in a minute.

Red-XIII
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Lemons:
1N2E: Here's a demo. I thought this was the intended way xD

Sugar:
1W: Well I suggest to leave the rattlesnake because about the adder I can lure him in a corner and make him 3 square length so I need hot tiles just two times.

Butter:
1S1W: Now I did it the way you said
EDIT: Attachment removed

____________________________
There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

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[Last edited by Red-XIII at 04-18-2013 06:30 AM]

Kwerulous
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Red-XIII wrote:
Lemons:
1N2E: Here's a demo. I thought this was the intended way xD

Wow, can't believe I missed this! That certainly isn't what I intended, I'll fix that in the next update.

Sugar:
1W: Well I suggest to leave the rattlesnake because about the adder I can lure him in a corner and make him 3 square length so I need hot tiles just two times.

Okay then, I'll consider removing the adder. I say "consider", because I personally like the room as it is, but I certainly don't want to bore people. I'll have a think if there's another way to make it more interesting.

Red-XIII
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Hello again I continued to play this hold and I postmastered it, here's the comments:

Flour:

Eggs:


The bakery:


It was really fun playing through this hold, well done!

____________________________
There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

Kwerulous
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Red-XIII wrote:
Flour:
1W: I like the room but some checkpoints near the pressure plate might be useful.

Okay, I'll add a few more checkpoints.

Eggs:
1W: I don't see the point of the 2 snakes trapped there which can be trivially be killed in the trapdoors. The mimic part was cool!

It was intended to kill them with the mimic. But I agree they are essentially just filling in space.

1S1W: Pretty easy, stayed on the same line of the mimic
2W: Not very different, used the decoy to strike the platform orb.

Ah, that's an unintended solution for 2W. I'll have to fix that.

1S: Really nice room, my favourite in the hold I guess because it's possible also without the mimic. Another checkpoint might be useful.

Could you describe or send me a demo of how you did this without the mimic?

1E: Pretty sure I broke it, I immediately killed the adder and used only 2 mimics, you just have to send a mimic to the roach and use another to open the pressure plate.

Yes, another unintended solution. The idea was to feed mimics to the adder so it can stretch along the plates. I'll look into this.

The bakery:

Click here to view the secret text

×About the thing you described in the scroll in 2E, which is that the script won't work if you restore I found it cool also because searching for secrets was really nice since they were nasty to find but I'm not sure everyone will like this fact.
Last thing, I really laughed when the goblin got mad because I was going to take the "ingredients", really funny

It was really fun playing through this hold, well done!

Are the secrets that hard to spot? I mean, I think the butter is quite well concealed as well as the short-cut on the same level, but the rest are fairly obvious I thought. I might make them a little more obvious, especially given the current discussion in another topic about secrets being annoying to look for.

I'm really pleased you've enjoyed it! Thanks again for playing through. I'll get working on the next update now.

Red-XIII
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Here's the demo for Eggs 1S:

I think you should leave the location of secrets as they are; what I meant is that it would be better if there was a way to go into the bakery also by taking the ingredients restoring but I'm really bad at Scripting so I cannot help into this.

____________________________
There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

Kwerulous
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Update 2 details:

2: Sugar: 1W
The 'task' in this room is to keep the snake still on the hot tile so you can kill it. The method is essentially the same for both the rattler and the adder, but the rattler required three performances of this whereas the adder only requires one. I like having both in, so as a compromise I have reduced the length of the rattler so that the 'task' needs to be done fewer times.

5: Eggs: 1W
Okay, I have removed the serpents. I also found a few unintended solutions here, and these I believe have been fixed now.

5: Eggs: 1S
Thanks for your demo, Red-XIII. I have replaced the roach with a wraithwing and have also adjusted the spacing of the lower plates. More checkpoints were added as requested.

All the other unintended solutions I believe have now been fixed.

I have left the secrets where they are. It's only a small hold so I don't think people will mind too much. I'm no expert either but I'm pretty sure there is no way to do it via restoration.

Red-XIII
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Eggs:
1S: I like this even more than before, more trickier
1E: I do pretty much the things as before, kill the adder and use two mimic, then awake the EE and clear the room.

The other rooms looks fine

____________________________
There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

Kwerulous
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Red-XIII wrote:
Eggs:
1S: I like this even more than before, more trickier
1E: I do pretty much the things as before, kill the adder and use two mimic, then awake the EE and clear the room.

The other rooms looks fine

Ugh, 1E! I don't see how you can do it with two mimics or even all three - you surely need to send Beethro in to wake the eye?

I don't suppose you could send me a demo again?

Red-XIII
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Sure There it is.


EDIT: Attachment removed

____________________________
There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

---

[Last edited by Red-XIII at 04-20-2013 09:18 AM]

Kwerulous
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Red-XIII wrote:
Sure There it is.

Oh, I see. That's actually quite easily fixed.

I'll probably leave this up for a couple more days in case anyone else has any further comments.

Red-XIII
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File: BatC 5 Eggs 1E Victory.demo (1.9 KB)
Downloaded 43 times.
License: Public Domain

Though I use the adder and three mimic I still don't need to go into the trapdoor zone.

____________________________
There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

Kwerulous
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Red-XIII wrote:
Though I use the adder and three mimic I still don't need to go into the trapdoor zone.

Thanks for this. I'm not going to try and prevent this solution though.

Reason being: you still have to do what I intended for this room, i.e. adder eats two mimics and you save one for the third plate. When you woke up the evil eye, you could have just as easily walked north rather than come out and manoeuvre the mimic in there. So I don't think this trivialises the room.

Again, thanks for pointing it out though.

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[Last edited by Kwerulous at 04-20-2013 11:01 AM]

Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
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Really good so far.
Can I get a hint for Flour 1N?

____________________________
New to DROD? You may want to read this.
My Holds and Levels:

Kwerulous
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Jacob wrote:
Really good so far.
Can I get a hint for Flour 1N?

Thanks, Jacob!

Progressive hints for 4: Flour 1N:

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[Last edited by Kwerulous at 04-20-2013 03:50 PM]

Chaco
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I'll second that this is a neat hold - it's both easy and it's high-quality, which we need more of.

I don't have very specific comments right now, so I'll just mention that there's an unintended solution for 2: Sugar: Once West, where you can just lure the rattlesnake and adder out of the room and kill them with your sword, since they can cross arrows. That's an easy fix; just make the passageways diagonal.

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Kwerulous
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Chaco wrote:
I'll second that this is a neat hold - it's both easy and it's high-quality, which we need more of.

Thanks Chaco - that's what I was aiming for.

I don't have very specific comments right now, so I'll just mention that there's an unintended solution for 2: Sugar: Once West, where you can just lure the rattlesnake and adder out of the room and kill them with your sword, since they can cross arrows. That's an easy fix; just make the passageways diagonal.

Well spotted - I'll get that fixed.

Red-XIII
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Hello again.
I played again Lemons 1N2E and this time I needed only 2 mirrors.

EDIT: Attachment removed

____________________________
There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

---

[Last edited by Red-XIII at 04-25-2013 12:45 PM]

Kwerulous
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Red-XIII wrote:
Hello again.
I played again Lemons 1N2E and this time I needed only 2 mirrors.

You're determined to break this room!

I'm pretty sure I've fixed this now, although I won't attach another update just yet.

Jacob
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I think a secret version with the unintended solution (where only one mirror was required) would be very cool.

That was a nice solution.

____________________________
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Kwerulous
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Jacob wrote:
I think a secret version with the unintended solution (where only one mirror was required) would be very cool.

That was a nice solution.

Forgive me, I have had to change this room a number of times, but to clarify, do you mean this:

Jacob
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Yep. Well, mainly the (1) part of the solution.

____________________________
New to DROD? You may want to read this.
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Kwerulous
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Update 4:
Okay, about the addition of the secret room in Lemons. It can be accessed from 1N2E.

I fixed the original room, 1N2E, using essentially a 2x2 pressure plate and door system so that you had to use all four mirrors in the maze bit. But then that made the secret room with the alternate solution seem obvious. So I have been investigating an alternative fix to the original room.

What is in the current version is the best I can come up with at the moment. I'm not sure if 1N2E still gives 2N2E away? Any comments or suggestions about this would be most welcome, because I do like the idea of including this alternate solution.

Edit: also: Chaco, for 2: Sugar: 1W, I opted for a green door instead of what you suggested simply because I didn't like the way the diagonal passages looked.

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[Last edited by Kwerulous at 04-22-2013 10:52 PM]

Red-XIII
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Please don't get mad at me but now 1N2E it's possible again with one mirror, I only have to put it on the ortosquare.

About the thing you asked to enforce the 1 mirror solution you could change the shape of the maze or adding a red herring so that the player might think on something else.

____________________________
There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

Kwerulous
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Rank Points: 340
Registered: 05-15-2008
IP: Logged

Red-XIII wrote:
Please don't get mad at me but now 1N2E it's possible again with one mirror, I only have to put it on the ortosquare.

About the thing you asked to enforce the 1 mirror solution you could change the shape of the maze or adding a red herring so that the player might think on something else.

Ah, I should have seen that! I have put a trapdoor a couple of squares below the orthosquare so now you can't do that.

I've reattached the hold straight away (as "update 4") with this fix, since only you have downloaded it so far.

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[Last edited by Kwerulous at 04-22-2013 10:12 PM]

Kwerulous
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Apologies to those who have already downloaded update 4 for the second time, but I have re-attached the hold with only the following changes:

*1: Lemons: 1N2E - aesthetic change
*1: Lemons: 2N2E (secret) - aesthetic change

This is in an attempt to solve the problem described above, and I think is about as well concealed as I can get it. Again, any thoughts on the extent to which 1N2E gives away 2N2E would be welcome.

Red-XIII
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Ok now I'm pretty sure that both rooms works fine.
I also think that in the current state 1N2E has "nothing" in common with 2N2E so the thing you wanted to achieve to me is ok, but you should listen to the other testers too before confirming these versions.

____________________________
There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

Kwerulous
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Thanks Red-XIII.

I'll leave this up for a bit longer in case anyone has any additional comments, or thoughts on the Lemons 1N2E/2N2E situation, then I'll go ahead and submit.

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[Last edited by Kwerulous at 04-25-2013 05:22 PM]