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Jutt
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icon Artful Architecture (+5)  
Finally, after many hours of work, I can release the first public version of my new hold. It is as good as finished, which means that all it needs is some beta testing.

There are four levels, each containing 8 normal puzzle rooms and one secret room. There's no storyline to distract you from the puzzles. Also, I've tuned down the difficulty compared to my previous hold.

Have fun playing.

____________________________
Holds: An Architects Audition, Artful Architecture, Salamander, Elusive Exhibitions, Leftover Levels, Six Times Six
Collaborative: Way Forward, Advanced Concepts 2
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[Last edited by Jutt at 03-10-2008 06:54 PM : Attached final version]
02-14-2008 at 05:31 PM
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Dictator Reverus
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (0)  
This doesn't really qualify as 'Artful'. It is better than several I seen posted, but still to call it artful it needs to be fancier. Attached is what, I think, it should look like (though I must admit, I did go overboard with that).

Try using more lighting; replacing certain walls pits, and water with obstacles and putting obstacles over them (if it doesn't affect gameplay); image floors, pits, and walls in select places; and most importantly use them in patterns with are aesthetically pleasing, rather than randomly scattered around.

I am trying very hard not to be arrogant.

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Since everybody keeps putting their holds in their signature, I decided to put my mod here.

Not sure if anyone actually clicks on these things though

[Last edited by Dictator Reverus at 02-14-2008 11:41 PM]
02-14-2008 at 11:40 PM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (0)  
I'd say you definitely went way overboard here.

As far as I can tell here, Jutt's intention is to provide us with fun and interesting puzzles without anything to distract, whether it's story, fantastic obstacles, lighting, or weird-colored floor.

Occasionally I might add *one* of the categories you described, but I believe your idea is the complete antithesis of what Jutt is trying to do here. This is just my opinion, but I believe your room, while it would behave in exactly the same manner as Jutt's, is way too cluttered and would ruin my experience. I would not want to play a hold full of rooms like that one.

I'll make more informative comments about Jutt's actual hold later. For now I'll say that I had a lot of fun solving the puzzles on the first level the way that they were designed.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by Chaco at 02-15-2008 12:28 AM]
02-15-2008 at 12:26 AM
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Jatopian
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (0)  
Wish I had time for this. However, I will say that "artful" doesn't generally refer to purely aesthetics.

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02-15-2008 at 12:43 AM
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Dictator Reverus
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (+1)  
Oh, okay then. I get it.

Although I must say I don't get what the 'Artful' is supposed to refer to then. I think the title is a bit misleading, and should be changed, or have a subtitle so that people know what you are talking about.

Off topic, I wouldn't play the hold full of the rooms I just made either. I would play a hold full of these kind of rooms though.(attached)

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Since everybody keeps putting their holds in their signature, I decided to put my mod here.

Not sure if anyone actually clicks on these things though
02-15-2008 at 12:57 AM
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Jatopian
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (+1)  
I think if people aren't willing to spend 10sec on dictionary.reference.com, that's their problem. It is not misleading to those who know the word.

Also, JPGs are nicer than bitmaps.

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DROD has some really great music.
Make your pressure plates 3.0 style!
DROD architecture idea generator
02-15-2008 at 01:06 AM
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Dictator Reverus
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (0)  
...

...

I feel stupid now.

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Since everybody keeps putting their holds in their signature, I decided to put my mod here.

Not sure if anyone actually clicks on these things though
02-15-2008 at 01:09 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (+1)  
I've played the first level. I'm very impressed. I can't say that it's any easier than An Architect's Audition though. These are some clever, tricky puzzles. It seems that Jutt and wraithwings are an evil combination!

Comments on Minimal Art:
Entrance - Sets the tone for the level. Things look symmetric but really aren't.
1N - A nice room that makes the behavior of two wraithwings together seem logical.
1N1W - Getting the goblins at just the right angle with respect to the new wall took a bit of trying, but worked out soon enough.
2W - 31 moves between pressure plate and gel mother!? You did that on purpose! I know it! Anyway, I made a mess of this room, growing stacks of tar and mud babies to do the job for me.
secret - This movement order puzzle wasn't too hard, and the necessary order of tar babies, mud babies, and roaches made this puzzle both artful and artistic.
1S - This was the hardest room for me to finish, getting the last two oscillating wraithwings into the right spot. There's a similarly evil room in Beethro's Teacher.
2S - The real puzzle was the second wraithwing and snake. Nice movement order trick to finish them off.
1E - Another room where breaking the apparent symmetry is key.
2E - The perfect symmetry of this solution was very cool! I hope that was intended. I didn't use any of the little alcoves on the sides.
02-15-2008 at 10:15 AM
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Jutt
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (+1)  
I'm glad the hold name issue has been cleared. It was indeed not my intention to make this hold overly decorated.

Thanks for the observations so far, CuriousShyRabbit. Judging from your comments you found all the intended solutions.
I thought the main difference with An Architect's Audition is that this time I made the puzzles less convoluted, aiming for only one major trick in a room. Still I always have a hard time figuring out the dificulty.

And I do indeed like wraithwings, but you may be pleased to hear you won't encounter any more in the following levels ;)

____________________________
Holds: An Architects Audition, Artful Architecture, Salamander, Elusive Exhibitions, Leftover Levels, Six Times Six
Collaborative: Way Forward, Advanced Concepts 2
Styles/Mods: Basalt, Sandstone, Garden, Clock using game elements
02-15-2008 at 12:25 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (+1)  
I've now complete the second level, except for the secret room. For this level I used a pencil and paper to help me solve many of the puzzles.

Comments on Living Statues
2N - It looks like correct positioning of the loose golems should make an easy and elegant way to get rid of the giants. However I did not find the correct initial setup and made a big mess of the room. Still managed to kill all the giants and golems eventually.
2N1W - It was fun working out exactly where to put the 13 western golems so I could still get all the others out.
2N1E - The classic golem packing puzzle in a very small area. Even with its unique presentation, I've seen this kind of thing so many times, it didn't feel as original as some of your other puzzles.
1S - Leading the golem through the maze was easy.
1W - I liked this one. With some graph paper and several different colored pens, I found the one place I could leave a dead golem. The room solved itself from there. :)
1N - An interesting comparison of different ways for getting golems out of boxes.
1N1W - I needed paper and pencil for this one too, when planning how to make the cage for the three giants.
1E - I found an elegant way to move the line of golems to the southeast, but couldn't find an elegant way to move them back. The second half of my solution to this room was really messy.
02-16-2008 at 04:18 AM
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Jutt
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (+1)  
I see how you can do 2N the messy way. I don't really think the room needs any changes as the elegant solution is far more efficient and will be required for optimizers anyway.
Other than that it looks like you solved the rooms with the intended solutions.

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Holds: An Architects Audition, Artful Architecture, Salamander, Elusive Exhibitions, Leftover Levels, Six Times Six
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02-16-2008 at 01:38 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (+2)  
Oh dear. It looks like I've reached the limit of my playing abilities on the third level. I thought I was pretty OK with snakes, but these puzzles have proven otherwise. One of the rooms I cannot solve is required, so I'm stuck now. (I don't playtest in the editor, where I can't save demos of my work.)

Comments on Tricolor Trial:
1N - I solved this room the messy way, one serpent at a time. I suppose someone will figure out how to do both at once, which would be really cool to watch.
1N1W - I positioned the serpents so that I could wake the eye exactly 8 turns after becoming visible.
1N1E - I did this the long clunky way, placing one mimic in the SE corner, and one decoy in the NW corner to keep the mud cuttable. I waited until the adder was dead before dropping the trapdoors.
1W - I ran through the bottom loop 4 times. Twice when I had a rattlesnake stuck on the pressure plate, twice when I had him looping on and off the pressure plate.
2N - The serpent helped me get the roach out of the middle chamber, so I didn't have to step on its trapdoor.
2N2W - I used the fact that an adder's tail doesn't move when it's eating to get 4 roaches out of the western part of the room.
3N1W - I'd have no clue how to solve this room the intended way. I dropped two trapdoors by the entrance and waited on the SE tunnel until both serpents were dead.

I need help with 1N2W, the last required room on this level. The room is covered with hot tiles, so I can't turn Beethro's sword. There are no dead ends or even corners where I can fry the adders, so they must all be killed by cutting. It's easy to kill the NE and SW adders (or the NW and SE adders), but the other two are another story. To cut them, I think I need an even number of squares between Beethro and the adder's head, but I always have an odd number. How do I change that?

By the way, Jutt, if you'd like to see any or all of my poor clunky demos, please ask, and I'll post them here. :)
02-17-2008 at 05:57 AM
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Jutt
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (+2)  
Whoa. An unspoiled mind spots the most flaws. Got lots of things to fix in this level.


1N - I solved this room the messy way, one serpent at a time. I suppose someone will figure out how to do both at once, which would be really cool to watch.
Killing both serpents simultaneously was the intended way. I think I can easily force that solution by adding some green sister gates at the ends of the centre passages.


1N1E - I did this the long clunky way, placing one mimic in the SE corner, and one decoy in the NW corner to keep the mud cuttable. I waited until the adder was dead before dropping the trapdoors.
I'm very interested in a demo, as you clearly found a different tactic in this room.


1W - I ran through the bottom loop 4 times. Twice when I had a rattlesnake stuck on the pressure plate, twice when I had him looping on and off the pressure plate.
Hmm, once more you undermined my evil plans. I had not thought of trapping the rattlesnake on the pressureplate. Can probably fix that with a few more eyes and doors...
The normal solution would involve getting both free rattlesnakes into a loop and running through the south path only twice.


3N1W - I'd have no clue how to solve this room the intended way. I dropped two trapdoors by the entrance and waited on the SE tunnel until both serpents were dead.
Well at least that is an easy fix. A force arrow on the third trapdoor does the job.


Then finally some help on 1N 2W:
Click here to view the secret text



____________________________
Holds: An Architects Audition, Artful Architecture, Salamander, Elusive Exhibitions, Leftover Levels, Six Times Six
Collaborative: Way Forward, Advanced Concepts 2
Styles/Mods: Basalt, Sandstone, Garden, Clock using game elements
02-17-2008 at 04:24 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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File: AA Tricolour Trial 1N1E Victory.demo (2.3 KB)
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (+2)  
Thanks for the help on Tricolor Trial 1N2W. That solved it for me. I should have seen that was the only way to take an odd number of steps back to where I'd been before. Also, I've attached my demo if 1N1E. (Don't laugh too hard!) I'll go back and finish the Level 2 and 3 secret rooms later.

I'm on to Who Is Afraid of Tar, Gel, and Mud? Hmm... not me, I think I tend to get "stumped" more often than "afraid" ;)

Here's what I've done so far:
2S2W - Having the mimic to help me cut the tar made this room relatively easy. It seems there are many ways to cut this shape with two swords. (2S is a whole different story though, without the mimic.)
1N1W - Getting the mud to fill the central chamber with no babies was also easy, with a bit of trimming and waiting and trimming and waiting.
secret - I used tar babies to block the tar's growth so it became cuttable.
1W - Inserting just the right number of tar babies into the central chamber did the trick. That was an awful lot of tar to clear in order to exit the room though.
1S1W - Once I figured out how to set it up, getting the 4 trapped babies out of the corners simultaneously was very pretty to watch.
1S - This is a very nice room as well. It took me a while to figure out how to approach it, but then I found the all-purpose tarstuff shape. :)
EDIT: 1N - I finally got this room as well. With a little support from Beethro on one side, the column of tar grew up to the pressure plate.

I'm still working on the last 2 required rooms on this level, not quite ready to ask for help yet...

[Last edited by CuriousShyRabbit at 02-18-2008 08:35 AM]
02-18-2008 at 08:10 AM
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Jutt
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (+2)  
Ah, after viewing your demo (without laughing) I found a simple fix for the room.

The last level has also proven not to be as flawless as I thought.

1N1W: Gah! I have reworked the layout of this room several times and I kept forgetting that both the mother and the brain had to be out of (in)visibility range when you're still sworded. The idea was that you cannot let the Mud grow before you become swordless. Will have to move the brain up a few rows.

1W: Leading tar babies into the central chamber... I think there was something which prevented that in previous versions of the room, but was lost in the architectural process. Part of the puzzle was figuring out in which state the central blob was actually removable. Anyway, this shouldn't be too hard to fix either.

1S: You did solve the room the intended way, but I'm still interested in your all-purpose tarstuff shape. I wouldn't be surprised if there are more shapes possible, and it's pretty difficult to detremine the simplest one. A demo or picture of your blob should be sufficient.

1N: As you don't need that 'little support from Beethro', you may have found an unwanted trick here. But it could be a harmless variation as well, so again a demo would be nice, just to be sure.

I'll soon update the hold with changes to the rooms that need to be fixed. You're doing a great job, CuriousShyRabbit :), only a few more rooms to go.

____________________________
Holds: An Architects Audition, Artful Architecture, Salamander, Elusive Exhibitions, Leftover Levels, Six Times Six
Collaborative: Way Forward, Advanced Concepts 2
Styles/Mods: Basalt, Sandstone, Garden, Clock using game elements
02-18-2008 at 03:52 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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File: AA Who Is Afraid of Tar Gel and Mud 1N Victory.demo (2.1 KB)
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (+1)  
Whew! I've now conquered the hold. That was a workout! You've put together a very interesting variety of challenges, Jutt.

Comments on the last rooms in Who Is Afraid...
2S - After it dawned on me that there was no way to avoid getting two joined circles of tar at the end, I finally made them with the eye in just the right spot.
1E - Here, you didn't let me kill any babies until I got to the trapped one in the SE corner.

Possibly silly question regarding 1N1W: What was the intended purpose of the brain in this room?

The all-purpose tarstuff shape I used in 1S:
Click here to view the secret text

I've attached my demo for 1N.

I'm now going back to work on the two one secret room I haven't yet solved.
EDIT: After drawing the room with a pencil and paper, and playing another hold for a while, I finally found a nice symmetrical solution to the Living Statues secret room. :)

[Last edited by CuriousShyRabbit at 02-19-2008 08:21 AM]
02-19-2008 at 02:37 AM
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Jutt
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (+1)  
The demo for 1N shows you only found a variation on my original solution, so the room is fine. Your tar shape for 1S is different from mine, but certainly not more trivial. You also solved 2S and 1E as planned.

The question about 1N1W is not silly at all. You have to fill the central chamber with mud without the formation of babies. I originally tried to enforce that by adding a brain that would send any babies directly after you. while being swordless that should lead to a quick death. Later I added that the pressure plates would close the entrances to the central chamber. I was still afraid though that without the brain one could create a baby, lead it out of the chamber and kill it when you become sworded again. Thus the brain was never removed from the room.

Now attached to the first post is a new version of the hold with some rooms fixed.

____________________________
Holds: An Architects Audition, Artful Architecture, Salamander, Elusive Exhibitions, Leftover Levels, Six Times Six
Collaborative: Way Forward, Advanced Concepts 2
Styles/Mods: Basalt, Sandstone, Garden, Clock using game elements
02-19-2008 at 07:45 PM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (+2)  
Mid-level player chiming in here.

I'm running through level 1 of beta02. It's a very elegant hold (or at least level, I suppose)! All the rooms have a very clear point to be made that isn't hidden in swarms of monsters. There's nothing wrong with the aesthetics; they complement the simple room design perfectly.

For the most part, the rooms that I've solved have started out seeming like trial-and-error nightmares before I spot the trick to them (I spent way, way too long leading those giants in 2E around...). At the moment, the secret room, 1S, and 2W remain unsolved; I think I see what needs to happen with them, but getting the critters lined up properly is taking me right back to the trial-and-error nightmare. I'm not sure if that indicates a major mismatch in difficulty, or just that I haven't spotted the trick involved. At the other end of the spectrum, 1N was surprisingly easy; it took me a couple of tries, but didn't really require the detailed knowledge of wraithwing behavior of the southern rooms. At least all the rooms in the level are accessible from the start; that's good.

One point to confirm, just in case. In 1E, to deal with the three-aumtlich side, was I supposed to
Click here to view the secret text
In light of 1N1W (a particularly neat room), I'm guessing that was the intended solution. EDIT: also, in rereading the thread, I didn't have CSR's problem with 1N1W. Is
Click here to view the secret text
intended?

So far, it's a very nice hold, albeit one that would likely send me running to H&S rather often. And there's nothing wrong with that, either.

____________________________
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by Dischorran at 02-20-2008 04:13 AM]
02-20-2008 at 04:09 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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File: AA Tricolour Trial 1N1E Victory.demo (1.8 KB)
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (+1)  
I've redone some of the puzzles that got changed.

Tricolor Trial:
1N and 1W - I believe I've solved these puzzles in the intended way now.
1N1E - I've attached a demo of what I did this time...
Still left to solve are 3N1W (I've got one snake to do the zig zag thing, but not two) and is the secret room.
EDIT: I managed a very messy solution to 3N1W, where I killed one snake outright, and got the snake which seemed to have the right parity to do the zig zag thing.

Who is Afraid:
1W - I believe I solved this puzzle in the intended way too.
Still left to solve is 1N1W, which is now by far the hardest puzzle on the level, with so much parameter space to explore.

[Last edited by CuriousShyRabbit at 02-20-2008 11:28 AM]
02-20-2008 at 09:44 AM
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Remlin
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (+1)  
Living Statues 1W has an unintended solution by killing a golem at (26,16). But if anything it's probably trickier than the intended way, so it may not be worth fixing.
02-20-2008 at 11:33 AM
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Jutt
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File: AA_Tricolour_Trial_1N1E_Victory beta02 intended.demo (1.4 KB)
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (+3)  
Dischorran wrote:
One point to confirm, just in case. In 1E, to deal with the three-aumtlich side, was I supposed to
Click here to view the secret text
In light of 1N1W (a particularly neat room), I'm guessing that was the intended solution.
Actually, no, I designed the room such that
Click here to view the secret text


EDIT: also, in rereading the thread, I didn't have CSR's problem with 1N1W. Is
Click here to view the secret text
intended?
That is perfectly intended.


CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
Tricolor Trial:
1N1E - I've attached a demo of what I did this time...
1N1E - What can I say... That's still very different from what I had in mind, and I have no ideas yet on what more I can do to fix this room. I've attached my solution to give you an idea what I was trying to accomplish.


Who is Afraid:
1W - I believe I solved this puzzle in the intended way too.
Click here to view the secret text



Remlin wrote:
Living Statues 1W has an unintended solution by killing a golem at (26,16). But if anything it's probably trickier than the intended way, so it may not be worth fixing.
Is that actually possible? I had concidered it, but thought you could only kill it in that spot by trapping yourself behind the golem. I suspect you need the help of at least one other golem. Probably not worth fixing.

____________________________
Holds: An Architects Audition, Artful Architecture, Salamander, Elusive Exhibitions, Leftover Levels, Six Times Six
Collaborative: Way Forward, Advanced Concepts 2
Styles/Mods: Basalt, Sandstone, Garden, Clock using game elements

[Last edited by Jutt at 02-20-2008 11:53 AM]
02-20-2008 at 11:43 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (0)  
I should say that I also solved Minimal Art 1E and 1N1W in the way Dischorran described.

1N1E - What can I say... That's still very different from what I had in mind, and I have no ideas yet on what more I can do to fix this room. I've attached my solution to give you an idea what I was trying to accomplish.
Thanks for the demo! Wow, I was really distracted in my attempt to remove all that mud. Where there's a will, there's a way, I guess. When playing the room, I just couldn't figure out what the adder was for. Now I see that it was meant to slow me down. I thought I was missing something else it was supposed to do. I'm not an architect at all, but I'm sure someone will be able to suggest a suitable fix for the room.

Regarding Who Is Afraid 1W, yup, that's what I did. :)
02-20-2008 at 12:15 PM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (+1)  
I've switched over to playing in the editor so that I can skip the rooms that I'm not likely to solve in a reasonable amount of time. At the moment, I'm halfway through Living Statues, and not quite ready to admit defeat on the other half.

1N is a very nicely constructed theme and variations. No gripes whatsoever here.

I agree that 1S is quite easy relative to the other rooms, and having so many walls and paths that don't play into the solution doesn't mesh stylistically with the minimalistic design of the hold so far. In practice, I think it's largely redundant with the far superior 1N.

Throw a tunnel into the center of 2N1E for an exit, and use briars instead of arrows to force inward movement, and you would end up with a room that I'd find remarkably familiar. ;) It's a pity to hear that the design's so frequently used, but heck, it's a good one! I don't think it's necessary to replace it, but if a new twist can be thrown in (I don't know, maybe enlarge the room to add a second identical golem pen and double the golem count, forcing an equal distribution of golems between the two?), it might improve the room.

I ended up solving 1W Remlin's way, which may well be significantly easier than the intended solution:
Click here to view the secret text


I haven't worked through the secret room yet, but I really like the idea! You scared me for a moment before I had fully taken in the room: far too often, grid of pressure plates + grid of doors = Light's Out, and forcing a nine-move solution would just be criminal... :)

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02-21-2008 at 06:38 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (+1)  
Argh! I give up! I need some help please with Who Is Afraid 1N1W, please. I could solve this puzzle, if there were wall at (12,19) and (12,20). As it is now, I can't see how to stop a baby from forming on the 7th spawn.

Here's what I've done so far:
Click here to view the secret text

Where have I gone wrong? With this kind of puzzle, it's hard for me to tell if I'm close to the correct solution or really far off. I think this puzzle is a lot harder than the one in the secret room. Or maybe that's just because I'm doing it wrong?

EDIT: In other news, I've finally finished the secret room in Tricolor Trial. :D That puzzle definitely needed a pencil and paper, so I could work from the beginning, end, and various middle parts of the rattlesnake's path simultaneously. I was so proud of myself, until I read the scroll... I'm sorry, next time I see a rattlesnake like that, I'll leave it alone.

[Last edited by CuriousShyRabbit at 02-21-2008 09:04 AM]
02-21-2008 at 06:45 AM
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Jutt
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (+2)  
Dischorran wrote:
I agree that 1S is quite easy relative to the other rooms, and having so many walls and paths that don't play into the solution doesn't mesh stylistically with the minimalistic design of the hold so far. In practice, I think it's largely redundant with the far superior 1N.
I mainly put in the room because I liked the idea how you have to set up the golem on the other side of the room and then let it zigzag through the obstacles into the SW chamber with the pressuraplate. I tried to hide that path, but maybe it is to obvious. On the other hand, I don't think it's too bad to throw an easy room into the mix.


I don't think it's necessary to replace [2N1E], but if a new twist can be thrown in (I don't know, maybe enlarge the room to add a second identical golem pen and double the golem count, forcing an equal distribution of golems between the two?), it might improve the room.
When adding more golems the room may become a bit tedious, especially if there are two golem areas which have to be solved in exactly the same way. Plus it's going to mess up in combination with the mimic-arrow rotator mechanism.


I ended up solving 1W Remlin's way, which may well be significantly easier than the intended solution:
[…] Is there a way to either remove that outcropping or add a wall to make it impossible to move directly diagonally from the first golem to the second?
Even better: I'll add an ortho-square on top of the checkpoint such that you won't be able to lure a golem onto it.


I haven't worked through the secret room yet, but I really like the idea! You scared me for a moment before I had fully taken in the room: far too often, grid of pressure plates + grid of doors = Light's Out, and forcing a nine-move solution would just be criminal...
It is actually based on another quite famous puzzle—you'll find out once you read the scroll in there.


CuriousShyRabbit wrote:Argh! I give up! I need some help please with Who Is Afraid 1N1W, please. I could solve this puzzle, if there were wall at (12,19) and (12,20). As it is now, I can't see how to stop a baby from forming on the 7th spawn.
You certainly got the idea behind this room. The major problem with what you're doing is
Click here to view the secret text



I think this puzzle is a lot harder than the one in the secret room. Or maybe that's just because I'm doing it wrong?
You know, originally this was the secret room on this level, and was located elsewhere. Then I realized it caused a nasty backtracking problem in the room it could be reached from. I reworked its layout, moved it to another location and made it a required room, making another required room secret. That new secret room (which is the current) I had concidered making secret before, because it was originally designed to be solved with a solution different from yours, which is a bit harder to find. I can of course try to switch 1N1W with the secret room back again, but that will once more require to redesign te layout of both rooms.

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02-21-2008 at 08:23 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (0)  
Thanks for the big hint on Who Is Afraid 1N1W. :) That is definitely a hard room. It looks like I was stuck in a "local minimum" starting position, where tweaking things a little in any direction led to a worse result. Really I had to change my starting position a lot. I've solved it now.

I support the idea of switching 1N1W with the secret room. Of course, you may want to wait for feedback from other players before going to all that work. I found the secret room much easier than 1N1W. I optimized my solution for the secret room today and was able to solve it with only two spawns.
02-22-2008 at 02:05 AM
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Someone Else
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (0)  
I can't figure out Minimal art: 1S. Can someone please give me a demo, or at least a hint?
02-22-2008 at 02:48 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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File: AA Minimal Art 1S Victory.demo (932 bytes)
Downloaded 86 times.
License: Public Domain
icon Re: Artful Architecture (0)  
I'm not sure it's possible to give a good hint for a multiple wraithwing room, but anyway:
Click here to view the secret text

My crummy demo is attached.
02-22-2008 at 02:57 AM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (+1)  
I've completed Living Statues (so it's probably easier than the preceding level).

Secret room: The vision token is much appreciated; I recognized the puzzle as soon as I stepped on it. Found a typo in the scroll: "hapens". It seems as though by leaving a few diagonals unchecked, there should be some solutions that diverge from the original puzzle, but I haven't tried to find them.

1N1W is probably my favorite room of the level. I finally got what I thought would work, tried it, and realized that I hadn't accounted for the circuit around the room. Tried it again, put the entrance in what seemed like the most convenient place, and got myself a traffic jam at the corridor.

In 1E, I didn't have the patience to try to lead the golems on the return trip as a group. I wonder if it's even possible.

2N works nicely the intended way.

I just realized the source of my problem with 1S:
Click here to view the secret text


I'm now moving on to Tricolor Trial (yes, I'm American - deal with it! :P ). I liked the aesthetics of the solution to 1N1W, and I never, ever would have gotten 1N2W without an explicit hint.

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02-22-2008 at 06:35 AM
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Jutt
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icon Re: Artful Architecture (+2)  
Finally got a new version of the hold up. The following changes were made:


Minimal Art: 1E – made the change I suggested before. I'd like to know if you think this fix improves the room or that I should stick with the old version.

Living Statues: 1W – added the ortho square, plus three others to keep the symmetry ;).

Living Statues: 1S – quite a lot of changes in the wall configurations, making the room trickier than before. I hope that should take care of all unintended shortcuts.

Living Statues: Secret – fixed typo.

Tricolour Trial: 1N1E – added two doors restricting your movement to the serpent loop once you step on the first pressure plate. Quite a drastice measure, but the safest I could think of.

Who Is Afraid: 1S1W – added a few arrows, but nothing for testers to worry about.

I have left the secret room and 1N1W on Who Is Afraid untouched for now. Not only so that testers can still comment on the current situation, but also because I haven't found a decent way to reorganize these rooms.

Dischorran wrote:
I've completed Living Statues (so it's probably easier than the preceding level).
I wonder if CuriousShyRabbit agrees on this point, in that case it may be worth switching the levels.



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02-26-2008 at 07:22 PM
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