Schik
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I've been slowly working on a new system for uploading holds for a week or so, and planning it for a month or two. Some recent events have led me to just turn hold uploads off for a short while, so since I'm pre-announcing it, I might as well describe the new system...

Users will be unable to directly put a hold on the Holds board. You will have to request it's promotion from either a beta board or from the Architecture board.

Once you have requested promotion, a team of Hold Administrators will look it over and decide whether or not it should be promoted. The main reasons that holds would not be promoted are:
- The hold contains copyrighted media
- The hold contains vulgar or otherwise inappropriate content
- The hold is not completable
- Other things we might make up on the spot

The team of Hold Administrators is not yet established. At some point I will be tapping some shoulders, asking people if they'd like to help. I'll be looking for people who are really active in beta testing holds, established and respected on the forum, and who I think can handle the responsibility and represent Caravel well. Much like Erik's monthly award, don't ask me, I'll ask you.

Feel free to discuss this and suggest things, but I've got a lot of it down on paper or in my mind, so I may not respond to every question or suggestion.

____________________________
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Jason
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I am so glad this is being implemented for the architect's sake. My first hold and second hold's were disasters and I am scarred for *life*. Go Schik!

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Ezlo
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I like this, much much better that what we have now. Thanks Schik!

larrymurk
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Yeah, big thumbs up from me!

Chaco
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I am also rather in favor of this in the light of some recently uploaded uncompletable holds.

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Tim
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What I want to know is, does your new method also covers Hold updating?

Schik
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Tim wrote:
What I want to know is, does your new method also covers Hold updating?

Yes. And marking rooms as non-highscorable.

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Jatopian
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I can't say I like the "inappropriate content" bit. Whose definition? Why not simply require labeling in the hold description for that?
It's not as though we can't just post on our Architecture threads with an attached final version. At least, I'm hoping you wouldn't try to stop that. Things might get less pretty (isn't a threat).

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coppro
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Because we want this site to stay appropriate. If we allow inappropriate content with a warning, we both encourage it, and make it so that those who would rather not play such marked holds are put at a disadvantage in the highscores.

NiroZ
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ah, been waiting for something like this to happen for a while. Hopefully things will change for the better.

Schik
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Jatopian wrote:
I can't say I like the "inappropriate content" bit. Whose definition? Why not simply require labeling in the hold description for that?

Well, sorry you don't like it, but Caravel has the right to determine what holds are available through their site or downloadable from within their game. As for me, I'm tired of reacting to problems and would like to start preventing them instead.

It's not as though we can't just post on our Architecture threads with an attached final version. At least, I'm hoping you wouldn't try to stop that. Things might get less pretty (isn't a threat).

I'm not sure what you mean. You mean if a hold is denied promotion to Holds? I'd say for most reasons that we'd not promote to Holds, we'd not allow it to be on the site at all. For instance, if it contains pornographic material or copyrighted media, then I can pretty much guarantee Caravel won't want it on their server. If, like a certain hold that was uploaded today, you're assaulted with f-bombs in the very first room.... I don't know. I guess it's up to Mike and Erik to decide that. I know how much Erik loves making up lots of rules for what's allowed and what's not . An easy rule would be "If it's not acceptable to be in a post on the forum, it's not acceptable to be in a hold either."

____________________________
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals.
--Mahatma Gandhi

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[Last edited by Schik at 10-18-2006 05:47 AM]

NiroZ
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So basically, most of the rules that apply to the forums, plus obvious things like making the hold compleatable?

As for copyright restrictions, will this be simply applying to content, such as sound and pictures? and what about holds like MetDROiD?

Schik
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NiroZ wrote:
So basically, most of the rules that apply to the forums, plus obvious things like making the hold compleatable?

That's the current plan. Rules may be added or modified in the future.

As for copyright restrictions, will this be simply applying to content, such as sound and pictures? and what about holds like MetDROiD?

Copyrighted media, such as sounds or pictures will obviously not be allowed. I assume MetDROiD is okay with Mike and Erik, since the series has been on the forum for so long without them objecting. But... I'll leave giving a real answer to them.

____________________________
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Oneiromancer
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I think the only real problem was with MetDROiD Prime with the copyrighted image floors. I don't see how the floor layouts could possibly be affected by copyrights since they are basically re-interpretations of the original levels. But I suppose if you made a floor layout of a copyrighted image it could be an issue, so who knows...

Game on,

____________________________
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Chaco
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Actually, in Timo006's Slayer Killing Hold, the layout of a room in JtRH level 8 is used(although the puzzle is different) which could possibly infringe copyright.

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Tahnan
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Chaco wrote:
Actually, in Timo006's Slayer Killing Hold, the layout of a room in JtRH level 8 is used(although the puzzle is different) which could possibly infringe copyright.

Fair use!

(Er, seriously, isn't "the layout of a copyright room is used" about the same level as "it includes a quote from 'The Princess Bride'"? Long passages, no, but quotes are, well, quotes.)

NiroZ
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Tahnan wrote:

Chaco wrote:
Actually, in Timo006's Slayer Killing Hold, the layout of a room in JtRH level 8 is used(although the puzzle is different) which could possibly infringe copyright.

Fair use!

(Er, seriously, isn't "the layout of a copyright room is used" about the same level as "it includes a quote from 'The Princess Bride'"? Long passages, no, but quotes are, well, quotes.)

as pointed out in this lenghly thread about copyright and fair use, fair use is a fickle thing.

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[Last edited by NiroZ at 10-21-2006 10:27 AM]

Tim
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NiroZ wrote:

Tahnan wrote:

Chaco wrote:
Actually, in Timo006's Slayer Killing Hold, the layout of a room in JtRH level 8 is used(although the puzzle is different) which could possibly infringe copyright.

Fair use![...]

[...]fair use is a fickle thing.

For your information, when I looked at that particular room back then, it was a difficult decision to make. I've decided to let it pass through as the puzzle was very different, and all the other rooms were new.

The result of all of that was, a new hold arrived in Architecture that included half the rooms from JtRH, with the same puzzles. Which disappeared very quickly after I've reminded the architect about that fact.

So, I'm not particularly pleased with my decision back then.

And I must say that copying a room from a someone else's hold without telling them is a no-no. I remembered I was more than surprised when I was playing a new Hold in Holds, and found a almost exact copy of a room of City of Queens (with the same puzzle) in there...

-- Tim

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Jacob
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I just finished making a hold. When I can I request that it be uploaded?

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Chaco
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Speaking of copying...

The Killing Jar : The dark basement : 2 South
JO's First Hold : Tartarus : 2 South, 1 East

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Schik
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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I've done a bit of work on this, and it's at least minimally ready. That is, it pretty much works for holds that are on beta boards. I'd like to test it out a bit more, so if you have a beta board, feel free to go to the beta section of your profile and request that your hold be promoted. If you're not really ready for your hold to be promoted, note that in the comments and I'll make sure I don't promote it. But at least we can test the interface out, and if there are some holds ready to go, that's great.

Next I'll work on making this same thing work for holds in Architecture, then I'll do hold updates and marking rooms highscoreable.

____________________________
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coppro
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I got a new idea! Since you have to promote them, why don't you make it so that on the Architecture board, the first post basically controls the hold file (like on the holds board), and if you mark a tick box, you can get it in-game. That way, you won't get overloaded by all the abandoned holds, but you can still get updates in-game.

Just a thought. It might make the promotion idea easier though, because you would be able to handle promotion more easily, having a base point.

Ezlo
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Hmmmm... I know DROD can interact with the site (Highscores and such) but can the site interact with DROD like how you explain?

EDIT: Duh! Beta Holds! Never mind.

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[Last edited by Ezlo at 10-25-2006 04:16 AM]

Schik
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I have hold promotions from Architecture ready to test. I don't want to just unleash it and have 10 people try to promote stuff if there are still big problems, so.... I need a volunteer who has a hold in Architecture ready to be promoted to Holds who is willing to help us test this out.

Any takers?

____________________________
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals.
--Mahatma Gandhi