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Jacob
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jbluestein wrote:

Outer Defenses: 3E is still trivially solvable by placing the decoy on the conquer token. (It's a pressure plate, probably should be a trapdoor.)

Josh

Indeed, that was meant to be a trapdoor. I'm often confusing tiles (e.g. open black door vs. platform). Trivial fix so will leave that til we find more bugs.

Thanks for all the feedback so far! What's the view about the maze in outer defenses? Too annoying? Is everyone just skipping it?

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06-17-2007 at 01:02 PM
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jbluestein
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Jacob wrote:
jbluestein wrote:

Outer Defenses: 3E is still trivially solvable by placing the decoy on the conquer token. (It's a pressure plate, probably should be a trapdoor.)

Josh

Indeed, that was meant to be a trapdoor. I'm often confusing tiles (e.g. open black door vs. platform). Trivial fix so will leave that til we find more bugs.

Thanks for all the feedback so far! What's the view about the maze in outer defenses? Too annoying? Is everyone just skipping it?

I liked it. I liked the maze in Briar Patch a lot more, though.

Josh

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06-17-2007 at 08:43 PM
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jbluestein
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By the way, the force arrow placement in Finale: 1E seems to thwart the 'trivial' solution I had come up with for this room. Unfortunately, it means I now need to figure out how to solve subroom seven, which so far I've been unable to do. But I'm working on it...

Josh

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06-17-2007 at 08:45 PM
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Jacob
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jbluestein wrote:
By the way, the force arrow placement in Finale: 1E seems to thwart the 'trivial' solution I had come up with for this room. Unfortunately, it means I now need to figure out how to solve subroom seven, which so far I've been unable to do. But I'm working on it...
Josh

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06-17-2007 at 09:41 PM
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jbluestein
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OK, solved the Finale. This time it took me:

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Josh

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06-18-2007 at 12:52 PM
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Jacob
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Nice one. That's the intended solution.
What did you think? For that matter, what did you think about the rest of the rooms? I seem to have mostly comments about unintended solutions so far.
Cheers.

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06-18-2007 at 06:33 PM
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jbluestein
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Jacob wrote:
Nice one. That's the intended solution.
What did you think? For that matter, what did you think about the rest of the rooms? I seem to have mostly comments about unintended solutions so far.

I really enjoyed the entire hold. I think it makes excellent use of the Conquer token without creating puzzles that are tedious or trivial.

Here are some more detailed comments:


The Outer Defenses:
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The Flooded Repository:
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Briar Patch:
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Finale:
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I would give this hold an 8 or 9 rating, and probably 6.5-7 brains of difficulty. It's certainly not as difficult as Beethro's Generic Quest, but it is quite fun.

Josh

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06-18-2007 at 06:59 PM
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jbluestein
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By the way, I do suspect that 3.0.2 will at least alter the behavior of the briar in Briar Patch: 4E. I'm not positive, and I'm not sure how much it breaks the room, but it should probably be noted.

(A good example of briar behavior that I think will change can be observed just by doing the following: start the room, step NE, then wait. Watch the briar grow onto the SE-pointing force arrow directly to the west of the roots. Then watch it keep on growing westward into the one-wide corridor, seemingly against the force arrow. I would be a little surprised if this didn't change.)

Josh

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06-18-2007 at 07:49 PM
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starwed
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I've just played the first level. So far, I like the puzzles themselves. But many rooms could use some more checkpoints.

I'm thinking especially of rooms like the wubba/hot plate room, where even once you see a solution it might take quite a while to execute it. In that room, for instance, you could place one at the bottom of each of the two wubba compartments.

There are also several rooms where there's a fiddly section of path to be traversed before you get to the actual puzzle. It would be a nice courtesy to put checkpoints at the end of such paths.


06-20-2007 at 05:21 AM
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DanielFishman
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OK- I'm stuck on The Flooded Repository, 1E

Do I leave 1 block of gel or two before lighting the fuse?

Excellent hold, by the way.
06-30-2007 at 11:04 PM
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starwed
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OK- I'm stuck on The Flooded Repository, 1E

Do I leave 1 block of gel or two before lighting the fuse?
Well, if it's the room I'm thinking of (with three blocks of gel in a horizontal column):
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[Last edited by starwed at 07-02-2007 01:33 AM : tyop]
07-01-2007 at 12:35 PM
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DanielFishman
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Yes, it is that room.
Thankyou :)
07-01-2007 at 12:38 PM
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Jacob
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Update:
New bonus level
Introductory level
Final secret room on the Briar level
Level descriptions and some speech
Various other minor changes

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07-16-2007 at 03:43 PM
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jbluestein
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Jacob wrote:
Update:
New bonus level
Introductory level
Final secret room on the Briar level
Level descriptions and some speech
Various other minor changes

Hi Jacob --

The Repository is a great level, although short for my taste. However, 1E and 1N1E are desperately in need of a few checkpoints (1E more so).

I like the storyline.

Josh

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07-16-2007 at 05:33 PM
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Chaco
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Could I put in a word for Flooded Repository: 2E receiving a checkpoint or two as well? That room is pretty long and several times I've made a mistake in the actual tarstuff clearing when I'd solved the puzzles of properly disposing of other blobs.

A checkpoint in the middle path of Once North on the same level (the one just to the west of the conquer token, between the two blobs) would also be nice.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 07-16-2007 06:58 PM]
07-16-2007 at 06:29 PM
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jbluestein
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The new secret room in Briar Patch seems pretty tight to me...or I'm missing something important about it.

As far as I can tell, here's what you need to do:

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[Last edited by jbluestein at 07-16-2007 08:46 PM]
07-16-2007 at 08:39 PM
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Jacob
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It's not clear whether you've worked this out or not, since your description seems to be almost there.
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Click here to view the secret text


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[Last edited by Jacob at 07-17-2007 01:58 PM]
07-17-2007 at 01:57 PM
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jbluestein
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Jacob wrote:
It's not clear whether you've worked this out or not, since your description seems to be almost there.
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Thanks Jacob! You confirmed what I thought, which was that I had to be more efficient at reaching the oremites square, and more importantly, getting the fegundo to its first safe place to explode faster.

I tried a new path and was able to solve it.

So at this point I've mastered the whole thing again. The new rooms are very cool.

Josh

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07-17-2007 at 02:12 PM
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jbluestein
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Two items:

1) Briar Patch 1N2E appears to only be solvable if you enter it from the west.

2) I may have an unintended solution, one way or the other, for Briar Patch: 3E.

I was able to solve the room in two different ways.

Click here to view the secret text


Josh

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[Last edited by jbluestein at 07-17-2007 04:41 PM]
07-17-2007 at 04:40 PM
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Jacob
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jbluestein wrote:
1) Briar Patch 1N2E appears to only be solvable if you enter it from the west.

OK, not too bothered by this as it's not exactly a complex or difficult room. Will have another look though.

jbluestein wrote:
2) I may have an unintended solution, one way or the other, for Briar Patch: 3E.

Oops! Solution 2 is totally unintended (it's set up like that such that the secret room is only accessible when the green doors are down, and using the fegundo). Will have to change that.
Solution 1 should still work, and I'm 99% sure I've tested it and it does.
The addition of platforms and the room to the east came later and I've obviously not checked how they affected the earlier version of the room.

The hold's almost releasable, but I'll probably need a master door somewhere (secret rooms aren't as fun without one) and I keep holding out for inspiration for another level based around another element (not sure what, ideas?). We'll see.
I'd like to expand the repository goblin level, but had run out of ideas, especially since I'd limited my options by making all the rooms unflooded versions of the flooded ones. Also something to think about.

Thanks for all the help with the hold up til now!

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[Last edited by Jacob at 07-17-2007 05:11 PM]
07-17-2007 at 05:05 PM
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jbluestein
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Jacob wrote:
jbluestein wrote:
2) I may have an unintended solution, one way or the other, for Briar Patch: 3E.

Oops! Solution 2 is totally unintended (it's set up like that such that the secret room is only accessible when the green doors are down, and using the fegundo). Will have to change that.
Solution 1 should still work, and I'm 99% sure I've tested it and it does.
The addition of platforms and the room to the east came later and I've obviously not checked how they affected the earlier version of the room.

Well, the version of the room I originally played with had the platforms and room to the east. I never used the fegundo to access either secret room, though -- the one to the north I just jumped on a platform and rode there, the one to the south I entered from the east, stepped on the pressure plate, and then exited through the open door.

The hold's almost releasable, but I'll probably need a master door somewhere (secret rooms aren't as fun without one) and I keep holding out for inspiration for another level based around another element (not sure what, ideas?). We'll see.

I tried to cycle through all the non-monster elements and see which ones were unrepresented or underrepresented in your hold, and I couldn't come up with anything. Builders might count, but...
a) they might not, and
b) I'm not sure I like builders (I know I haven't liked many builder puzzles yet).

Josh

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07-17-2007 at 05:39 PM
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jbluestein
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Jacob wrote:
solution 1 should still work, and I'm 99% sure I've tested it and it does.

I just want to confirm that Solution 1 still does work. It's fairly tight and requires some extra trimming to cut down on briar pieces adjacent to pits, but it does work.

Josh

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07-18-2007 at 02:11 AM
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starwed
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Oops! Solution 2 is totally unintended (it's set up like that such that the secret room is only accessible when the green doors are down, and using the fegundo). Will have to change that.
Even if it's unintended, it's not exactly a trivial solution. In fact, that's how I solved the room, and I'd assumed it was the "correct" solution.

There's nothing wrong with a room having two solutions, after all. :)
07-18-2007 at 05:08 AM
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jbluestein
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Jacob wrote:
jbluestein wrote:
1) Briar Patch 1N2E appears to only be solvable if you enter it from the west.

OK, not too bothered by this as it's not exactly a complex or difficult room. Will have another look though.

I think this is a matter of the room being slightly off-center, but I don't know if you can align it any more smoothly than that.

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07-18-2007 at 04:28 PM
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Jacob
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Could someone please post the latest version of my hold up here. I managed to delete a level in my copy! :blush
Thanks!

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08-04-2007 at 07:43 PM
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bdwing
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This is the latest version in my possession.

Edit: Purpose served. Attachment withdrawn.

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[Last edited by bdwing at 08-06-2007 01:54 AM]
08-05-2007 at 03:30 AM
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Jacob
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Many thanks!

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New to DROD? You may want to read this.
My Holds and Levels:
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08-05-2007 at 04:46 PM
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Jacob
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New level: 5 complete rooms.
Also, I created a cool new room, but unfortunately it contains monsters, so I can't use it. Might have to create a whole new mini-room so I've got somewhere to put it. Unless someone needs an extra room for one of their holds?

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08-28-2007 at 11:51 PM
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jbluestein
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Well, the first two rooms are clearly impossible. Except...now, that's cool.

Josh

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08-29-2007 at 05:17 PM
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Chaco
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All five rooms are possible.

The eastern three (1N2E, 2E, 1S2E) all seem very easy, though - all I had to do in all three of them was to take the clone potion immediately, place it in the upper-right hand corner, then take the mimic, put it just above the trapdoor with the checkpoint on it, hit the orb with the mimic, get the conquer token with the upper clone, then escape with the lower clone. And this strategy worked for all three rooms, not just one.

In other words, I didn't see very much variation in those three rooms, and they were much, much easier than the rooms in some of the earlier levels.

However, The Entrance and Once East are quite clever rooms - it took me a while to figure out what was going on in Once East :)

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[Last edited by Chaco at 08-29-2007 05:23 PM]
08-29-2007 at 05:21 PM
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