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File: Beethros Generic Quest.hold (21.5 KB)
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Beethro's Generic Quest

-Solve some puzzles
-Read dialogue
-Kill lots of monsters
-Don't kill lots of monsters
-Um...see a...guy
-Hit some orbs
-Do stuff

All though it may not sound it, this may be my toughest hold yet. Good luck. As per Larrymurk's precedent, I won't be giving anyone any help with it...

Thanks to jbluestein, Rabscuttle, KevG and michthro for beta-testing.

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3672
Registered: 10-06-2005
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Woo, it's out!

I'll go... er... do stuff.

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Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
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Speaking as a guy who mastered JtRH, I stopped beta testing cause I couldn't do enough of this hold to test it.

Have fun, guys.

jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1670
Registered: 12-23-2005
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My opinion (as a beta tester who has mastered the hold):

This is a difficult hold with some very good puzzles in it. Difficulty level is pretty consistent throughout, but I was able to master it (and I haven't yet mastered Perfection or Beethro's Teacher, so it's not quite an all-out assault on the brain.

It's also tons of fun.



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"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

Pilchard VIII
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 392
Registered: 01-21-2006
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Sounds great! I'm finally gonna see a guy!

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The DROD Dragon

Neather2
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 406
Registered: 07-18-2006
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Umh, Good i Guess

____________________________
Nothing to say. I just play the game. And you, sir, should play it too.

Conspiracy, my new hold, has just been released.

Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
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Registered: 10-01-2004
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Neather2 wrote:
Umh, Good i Guess

Thanks. I guess. (I have no idea what you're referring to here...)



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Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
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Grr! stupid unbacktrackable non-DROD rooms (and stupid me). Hmm... I guess I ought be tactical when I give my raiting to keep michthro and Syntax away (Please don't take away my highscores!) If I give the hold a mere nine for overall raiting they will probably think it is boring and leave it unexplored.

Great job, Jacob. Almost every room is briliant

Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
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Registered: 10-01-2004
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Blondbeard wrote:
I guess I ought be tactical when I give my raiting to keep michthro and Syntax away (Please don't take away my highscores!) If I give the hold a mere nine for overall raiting they will probably think it is boring and leave it unexplored.

...Hey! That ain't fair!

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Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1218
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Blondbeard wrote:
Grr! stupid unbacktrackable non-DROD rooms (and stupid me). Hmm... I guess I ought be tactical when I give my raiting to keep michthro and Syntax away (Please don't take away my highscores!) If I give the hold a mere nine for overall raiting they will probably think it is boring and leave it unexplored.

Great job, Jacob. Almost every room is briliant

Too late... I'm already playing. michthro's on a break I believe though so not too much danger

larrymurk
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1917
Registered: 12-09-2004
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Lots of good puzzles, plenty of fun, and a wise old man. What more could one ask for?

Another fine hold by the master!

Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1218
Registered: 05-12-2005
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Well, Im only half-way through, but far enough, I believe, to leave a comment.

This is sheer genius. Pure and simple.

The variety of tricks involved is almost overwhelming, yet each room offers a "simpler" alternative if you're not trying to optimise. I foresee lots of #1 exchanges in most of the rooms I've encountered so far.

I'll rate this hold once I've finished it, but let's just say I haven't had this much fun for a while... brilliant job

[EDIT]

Typos

---

[Last edited by Syntax at 11-03-2006 08:04 AM]

Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
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Thanks for the comments!

Syntax wrote:
The variety of tricks involved is almost overwhelming, yet each room offers a "simpler" alternative if you're not trying to optimise.

This sounds *dangerously* like unintended solutions. Care to elaborate?

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Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1218
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None so far... Just solutions which can be accomplished in so many different ways that knowing which is the most efficient can be extremely difficult.

Or maybe I just got lucky each time

RoboBob3000
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1982
Registered: 10-23-2003
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Speaking of unintended solutions, is The Quest Begins 2W supposed to be possible without fancy golem manipulation? Cause it is.

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Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
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Registered: 10-01-2004
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Grrr

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jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

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Registered: 12-23-2005
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RoboBob3000 wrote:
Speaking of unintended solutions, is The Quest Begins 2W supposed to be possible without fancy golem manipulation? Cause it is.

How fancy, exactly?

Because I didn't find the effort too high, but I couldn't do it without *some* golem manipulation...



____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
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You can just kill the goblins where they start from. I never quite figured out what the *intended* solution was though...

[EDIT]

It's still not trivial to solve however

---

[Last edited by Syntax at 11-05-2006 04:03 PM]

jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

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Syntax wrote:
You can just kill the goblins where they start from. I never quite figured out what the *intended* solution was though...

I believe that the intended solution (at least the one I used) involves:



____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
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Ahh right... not quite how I did it then hehe

jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

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Syntax wrote:
Ahh right... not quite how I did it then hehe

/watches RoboBob3000's demo...

sneaky!



____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1218
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In brief:

Very nice hold indeed. *Lots* of varied and clever puzzle rooms. Also, each level is a theme of its own (in particular the last level - nice break from all that killing ). I also thought the room layout reuse for a "series" of rooms was extremely well done (like the corridors in "The Quest Begins").

Even the mini-map in "The Plot Thickens" is a piece of art. Oh, and I actually bothered to read the dialogue (I usually skip this part when playing) - very fun.

Excellent work!

8 brains
9 total

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[Last edited by Syntax at 11-05-2006 08:44 PM]

schep
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 865
Registered: 03-01-2005
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Done.

I'd have liked (more) checkpoints in:
The Quest Begins 1S2W
non-Deadly Rooms of Death 10N
and secret room

I admit I was a bit disappointed there weren't any of those levels where you need to figure out the order of the rooms and come in from the right entrance. I know, we just got Figure Or Ground, but Jacob's so good at those.

Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
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I was just curious as to how many people had played the hold and how far they'd got...Apparently more people have played the second level than the first.

How is that possible?

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Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
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Registered: 10-06-2005
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I've played just the first level - solved all six Tunnels of Treacherousness, three of the six Crafty Puzzles of Craftiness, and the Secret Room of Solidarity.

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Remlin
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 181
Registered: 04-28-2005
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Great hold, great puzzles. It's amazing to see the complexity you can get out of rooms with three or four monsters. Every element in every room seems carefully considered before being placed.

My one criticism is that sometimes the hold's own cleverness worked against it, and rooms that would have taken me forever in another context were kind of easy when my internal dialogue went: "How nice, a tar baby that serves no purpose but to die a completely trivial death. Wait, why do I get the feeling I've already lost? Oh, that's what it's there for..." (Plot Thickens 1 South and 1 North are both good examples.)

I'm no fan of the architect style that throws roach queens in everywhere they'll fit, but I think adding the occasional monster that really did have no hidden purpose would have made some rooms much harder just due to the added misdirection.

captainzakku
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 77
Registered: 07-15-2006
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And mastered...

This was a very fun and challenging hold. The first room had me a little worried, as I am not the biggest fan of snakes, but I found the rest of "The quest begins" to be very challenging, and as Syntax said, I even read, and enjoyed, the dialogue.

Some of my favorites:
TQB 2W

TQB 1W/1E and variants

TPT 1&2N 1E

TPT Variations on orthosquares

non-DROD


Anyway, great hold, I look forward to playing some of the others you've designed.

____________________________
"A problem worthy of attack, proves its worth by fighting back." Paul Erdös

Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2460
Registered: 11-14-2005
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The non-DROD level was brilliant. An enjoyable hold beyond that; some nice variations-on-a-theme. Also some very hard rooms, and it'll be quite a while before I'll be ready to see another ortho-square.

martz
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 416
Registered: 08-19-2005
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This is a brilliant hold, from possibly my favourite architect (slight element of country bias here...)

This hold is full of brilliantly designed puzzles - the amount of thought and effort that's put in to some of these is astonishing. In the majority of rooms, everything is there for a reason (not that there isn't the odd red herring dotted around...) and I find this kind of puzzle extraordinarily satisfying to solve. There are a number of repeated variation rooms but I never felt bored with any of them.

The best part is the last level - a series of rooms which need to be navigated without being cleared (and of course all of them are easier to clear than not). This isn't an original idea now, but I suspect at the time this hold was published it may have been, and even then it's done here in such a polished way as to provide a very enjoyable experience. I also suspect I wasn't the only person who cleared each room for the high-score before restoring back to get through it without clearing it...only to discover that I had to clear the level anyway to access the final secret room...

A few minor criticisms - some checkpoints lacking, similar to the above comment about the secret room on the last level. The story wasn't as great as I'd thought it might be - probably more down to my high expectations than anything else, some of the writing was funny but I was expecting more of an adventure game cliche/mickey take (possible future idea for someone?)

If you haven't already, play this hold.

Difficulty: 7
Fun: 9

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Without struggle, there is no progress, so get up, get out, and go make the rest of your life the best of your life; you deserve to live the life that YOU want to live...

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