Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
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File: One room in a hold or a hold in one room.hold (2.2 KB)
Downloaded 78 times.
License: Public Domain

The idea behind my new hold, Figure or Ground, was: each room would play several roles; what was inaccessible and "ground" would become "figure" when you entered from a different entrance (or once you'd dropped a certain door) etc.
I've used similar ideas in some other holds as well (including a certain upcoming Smitemaster's Selection).

So, here's the competition: Create a single room that plays entirely differently depending on the entrance.
I've posted up 2 examples to show you what I mean. Entering in different places enable you to have access to different paths, potions, orbs and means that monsters will distribute themselves differently. There are several other ways of doing this.

Rules:
-You are only allowed to make 1 room in your entire hold (therefore you'll need to use multiple stairs and start positions)
-Elements are unlimited, but *puzzles* are not allowed to use scripting. (dialogue, hints etc are ok)
-All information should be available for solving the room without trial and error. This means that the start positions should clearly correspond to the exit stairs.

Scores should be based on: Fun, Variation between all the different play-throughs of the room (e.g. if the room plays the same for each entrance, there's not much point), Economy (I've made a room that has 2 entrances but must be played through 4 times. Can anyone get a higher ratio? The other ratio is 6:8, I hope) and Originality.

[EDIT: Economy should also include reusability of parts of the room itself, not just the stairs.]

I'm thinking of a 2-week time limit. The holds can then be combined to make a meta-hold (possibly with a meta-room linking them?), and can be released on Holds board.
Anyone up for it?

[EDIT: There's still a problem with this room (the bomb section in the lower right) which is still to be fixed...Watch this space]

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[Last edited by Jacob at 02-18-2006 03:36 PM]

Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
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File: One Room.hold (1.1 KB)
Downloaded 68 times.
License: Public Domain

Example 2: 2 entrances. Must be played through 4 times (each time differently). This hold is a LOT easier than the first one, so is probably more illustrative.

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[Last edited by Jacob at 02-13-2006 03:37 PM : Corrected stairs]

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
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Interesting. It's certainly an idea that requires thought. Of course, the easiest way to do this would be a mimic room.

EDIT:

In One Room, the lower right stairs exit the hold instead of plopping me at a different entrance.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 02-13-2006 01:04 AM]

Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
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Chaco wrote:
In One Room, the lower right stairs exit the hold instead of plopping me at a different entrance.

Huuuuuuuh? I played that room through several times. Maybe copying and pasting it messes it up. I'll correct that tomorrow.
Until then you can always correct it in the editor: the left stairs re-enter on the left, and the right stairs on the right.

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dividendD
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 44
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I've played both of these holds and I think this is going to be a very good contest....

Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
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Mail the holds to me: jgrinfeld@hotmail.com

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Tim
Level: Smitemaster

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No! Someone make a submission post, and let everyone drop their holds there!

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Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
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But that means that holds will all be released at separate times. Which may be unfair.

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Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
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Also, we lowly regular members can't start submission threads. At least as far as I know.

Anyway, in your first entry, I can't seem to make it to the tar mother in time on the second iteration. I'm only four moves short of killing the whole thing.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 02-13-2006 06:23 PM]

Doom
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Chaco wrote:
Anyway, in your first entry, I can't seem to make it to the tar mother in time on the second iteration. I'm only four moves short of killing the whole thing.

Tim
Level: Smitemaster

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Jacob wrote:
But that means that holds will all be released at separate times. Which may be unfair.

No, it won't. At least, according to Schik's post in the submission thread:

I will also change it so that the folder doesn't turn red for replies, only for the original post.... at least until all the posts are revealed.

I can hopefully conclude that all the posts are revealed at the same time.

Of course the creation of such thread can and should be done by Schik...

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Jacob
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Ok, I'm sorry. I don't understand. What is a submission thread? I thought you just meant we should make a thread on which people could post their entries. I presume you mean something more specific?

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Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster

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He meant one of these.

Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
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Oh, cool, thanks. I wasn't aware of that. Are these threads operational? How do I get one? That would indeed be handy.

On an unrelated note, I just got made a Smitemaster, woo!

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Mikko
Level: Master Delver
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Jacob wrote:
I've made a room that has 2 entrances but must be played through 4 times. Can anyone get a higher ratio? The other ratio is 6:8, I hope

The maximum number of required playthroughs is the number of entrances times two (once with the room starting unconquered and once with the room starting conquered). Whether such a room is fun or just repetetive is another issue.

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
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Doom wrote:

Chaco wrote:
Anyway, in your first entry, I can't seem to make it to the tar mother in time on the second iteration. I'm only four moves short of killing the whole thing.

Click here to view the secret text

×Haste makes waste.

But if I don't kill it soon enough, it'll block the only passage to the brain and the orb to the next staircase.

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Doom
Level: Smitemaster

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Chaco wrote:

Doom wrote:

Chaco wrote:
Anyway, in your first entry, I can't seem to make it to the tar mother in time on the second iteration. I'm only four moves short of killing the whole thing.

Click here to view the secret text

×Haste makes waste.

But if I don't kill it soon enough, it'll block the only passage to the brain and the orb to the next staircase.

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[Last edited by Doom at 02-14-2006 08:21 PM]

Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
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Registered: 10-01-2004
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Mikko wrote:
The maximum number of required playthroughs is the number of entrances times two (once with the room starting unconquered and once with the room starting conquered). Whether such a room is fun or just repetetive is another issue.

I initially thought this, but now I'm not absolutely sure that's the case. I'm pretty sure you're right, but I've got a couple of ideas I've not yet tested which may allow another one or two (at most 2).

I'd like to know if anyone thinks this contest is worth doing.

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Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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I can think of a way to require at least 3 playthroughs. I'd rather not spoil it, though, because it is going to be used in a hold that is being privately tested right now (not one of mine, someone else's). I'd be surprised if no one had thought of it before, but I haven't seen it used, either.

And of course you can just be really mean and have the room state depend on what square you enter the room on (if the entrance is more than 1 square wide), or Beethro's sword orientation, etc. Although I guess that doesn't count as requiring completion of the room, it just makes it different.

Game on,

____________________________
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Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
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Well, the room I've posted here requires 8 playthroughs. Do you mean 3 playthroughs per entrance?
If so: Oneiromancer proposes 3n playthroughs
Jacob proposes 2n+2 playthroughs (not tested)
Mikko proposes 2n playthroughs
(where n is the number of exit stairs)
Any advances? Any entries?
(Within the confines of the competition the state you enter the room in is set by the architect...Unless I'm missing your point here)

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Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Sorry, I meant 3 per entrance. And all 3 can't happen at the same time...other stuff has to occur first.

Ah, I guess it's okay to say what I meant. The whole "two ways per entrance" relies on a green door dropping, yes? Well, you can have a blue door too, and you can also script to check to see if that blue door is open or closed. So if you go through all the entrances one way, then drop the green door, then go all the way back with new puzzles, go through where the green door was and conquer that room, then you can go all the way back through that one room with all new objects that only appear after the blue door has dropped.

Edit: ah, I don't know if this will work with the actual constraints that you have, Jacob. I was thinking more along the lines of Beethro Goes Fourth 1S than using stairs. I guess it would probably work, actually.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

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[Last edited by Oneiromancer at 02-14-2006 09:02 PM]

Doom
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With scripting you can easily create one entrance that has to be used 20 times. You can make characters disappear and check if they're in the room, for example.

The problem is that Jacob's rules don't allow it. (I suppose checking for a blue door is part of this)

I'm propably not taking part in this contest simply because I'm a bit out of usable stuff at the moment. And I don't generally like many-part rooms too much, so I rarely make them anyway. It's interesting to experiment with that maximum playthrough stuff, though.

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[Last edited by Doom at 02-14-2006 09:03 PM]

larrymurk
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I probably wouldn't make an entry because in general I don't like multiple entry/replay rooms. There are some great exceptions though.

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
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Doom wrote:

Chaco wrote:

Doom wrote:

Chaco wrote:
Anyway, in your first entry, I can't seem to make it to the tar mother in time on the second iteration. I'm only four moves short of killing the whole thing.

Click here to view the secret text

×Haste makes waste.

But if I don't kill it soon enough, it'll block the only passage to the brain and the orb to the next staircase.

Click here to view the secret text

×Still too fast.

Click here to view the secret text

×Don't hit the first orb too early.

Yeah, but if I do this, it just gives the Tar Mother blob a head start (as it doesn't need to generate the tar under itself while I'm racing)

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Mikko
Level: Master Delver
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I'll probably take part. I'm not promising anything, but this does sound like a nice contest.

In one of your two holds in this thread:

Doom
Level: Smitemaster

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Secreted to save space (Reply to Chaco's post above)

Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
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Mikko wrote:

Click here to view the secret text

×Is the player meant to use the orb in the center of the room (the one protected by three gates)? I completed the room without doing so.

Oops. I take it you used the mimic to hit the topmost orb then? That's a fatal flaw...I may fix it later.

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Chaco
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Wow. I knew it was possible in general to do what you told me, but I never thought of applying it here.

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Jacob
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Deadline this Sunday.

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Chaco
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Well, I wasn't thinking about it, but I suppose I could throw something together for the sake of participating.

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