DairmossX
Level: Goblin

Rank Points: 22
Registered: 09-28-2009
IP: Logged

File: A random hold.hold (14 KB)
Downloaded 45 times.
License: Public Domain

I've tested all the rooms and they ARE solveable, but i need help making it better. As most people know spider based puzzles are difficult to make and have work out well, but im sick of roach based ones.

Its only 2 levels long, most of which isnt finished (and yes, i have a lot left to do to the first level to make it work) but i would like some imput to make it flow better. There would be a lot more if i understood scripting, and knew what to make for a story to it, other than what i've got.

Also, i want direct feedback on spidercaves: 2n2w, i worked really REALLY hard on that room to get it to work.

be nice, but be honest too, this is my first hold.

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[Last edited by DairmossX at 05-22-2012 07:38 PM]

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3624
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

File: randomhold_Chaco.txt (6.5 KB)
Downloaded 50 times.
License: Public Domain

Attached to this post is a text file, with some detailed and involved comments on the rooms and my opinion of the architectural work that went into the making of this hold. I typed it up while I was playing the hold.

While unfortunately I think I was very honest and not very nice, I think that my essential points (I don't think you put as much work into this hold as you could have, I think your attitude towards the player is too antagonistic, I think this hold could be more fun) are made, and I've pointed out specific things I don't like. Hopefully I'm not coming across as too mean or caustic.

This hold has the potential to be an interesting romp with plenty of exciting horde combat action, with a good story, but I don't think it's there yet. Understand that I think this hold could shape up to be great, but I just think there's some problems.

By the way, good job having the initiative to start an architecture project, have others review it, and (presumably) read their commentary and think about it.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

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[Last edited by Chaco at 10-07-2009 01:38 AM]

Someone Else
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1300
Registered: 06-14-2005
IP: Logged

Crash Site:


Spider Caves:

DairmossX
Level: Goblin

Rank Points: 22
Registered: 09-28-2009
IP: Logged

@ Chaco: Yeah, i wasnt really thinking very hard when i designed the level. Im gonna go ahead and scrap it and try again. Next time, try spacing out your comments, i couldnt read it half the time, i had to space out comments before i started.

@ Someone Else: i suppose i can try to put in a room thats just like it with a brain/ speed potion.

I'll tackle the spider level later on, i want to fix a few issues that i had with the first level, mostly just the filler room problems that were brought up.

Is there any way to duplicate and move a room to a diffrent spot in the level so i dont have to lose it?

Did you guys get to the secret room, 1S1W? i dont think i want to remove the room...but i will if nobody likes it.

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[Last edited by DairmossX at 10-07-2009 08:27 AM]

Ravon
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 220
Registered: 02-19-2004
IP: Logged

I played this hold yesterday. I enjoyed the first level: a few rooms felt like filler, but played very reasonably, if simply. Not so much the second. For the most part, I would say that your judgment about the rooms was good. You often have scrolls warning the player of incoming tedium. Instead, perhaps you should rework the room. I felt that whether or not a room had a scroll was a reasonable indication of whether or not the room felt finished; if a room did have a scroll talking directly to the player (i.e. not story related), I probably didn't enjoy that room.

I agree with what Someone Else and Chaco have said about specific rooms pretty much exactly. In 4N2W, however, I enjoyed the entire room disappearing when I drank the potion. This is a situation in which I think that spiders actually do add something to the atmosphere, if not to the puzzle. I felt that this effect separated it slightly from the same thing done with roaches.

You have a couple good ideas in the second level, but they feel unfinished. The secret room you mentioned is a great example of this. I like the concept (aumtlich stuck on an island about which you must run), but didn't think the room was so much fun. The adders are easily dispatched at the beginning, and after they are gone the small groups of roaches you fight are tedious and pose no real threat. Because the aumtlich are static their beams are only a minor inconvenience. The core concept of the room could be fun, but the various pieces don't fit together, and the monsters don't end up forming any sort of coordinated attack. (The same thing is very much true in many other rooms. It is not always bad, but it does give your rooms a distinct unpolished taste.) With that said, this room was one of the strongest in the hold.

To copy a room, go to the main editor screen (the screen which lets you choose weather/lighting for your hold), and click on the room you wish to copy in the minimap. This room should now be highlighted in orange. Press Control-C (Command if you are on a mac? I do not know). Highlight the room where you wish to place the copied room and press Control-V. The game will let you know that this will delete the room and all its contents. Press ok. (Can you tell I've been doing this a lot?)

The first level shows that you know what you are doing. If you spend more time working on the details of your rooms, I think this could turn out to be a fun, easy hold.

DairmossX
Level: Goblin

Rank Points: 22
Registered: 09-28-2009
IP: Logged

2N 2W: The first thought that I had when I saw this room was I hate you. Then I saw that it had no brain, and I thought aww. So maybe a secret room with a brain, a speed potion, and the same layout *nudge*. Oh, and maybe without some of the evil eyes. Also, then you wouldn't have those frustrating arrows, except for a few of them. Yeah, like the scroll said.

the arrows are soully for the purpose of keeping the roach queens in place, not meant to be frustrating or to trap the player.

I havent had time to work on the hold for now, but i completely removed the fort part of the first level and about half of the second level and will be working on these areas when i have time. I found gears of war 2 the other day and i've been glued to my tv

Odyssey
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 124
Registered: 09-09-2009
IP: Logged

Good:

-Use of spider elements
-Some time spent making some rooms
-Element of darkness is relative to the intentional theme
-Themed elements for the "cemetery" room
-Use of coloured lights in the "cemetery" room to create the effect of green spiders
-I liked the lighting effect caused by Beethro when you run from east to west across the room in 3N2W

Bad:

-Unnecessarily tedious rooms
-4N2W; terrible room due to the fact that the player must use the potion to slowly kill the spiders. Have yet to test if this is possible without the potion, though it's difficult since I can't see them...
-Admitting that 3N1W is a "filler" room; I do hope that you didn't mean for this to be in the finished product, but saying things like that isn't something the player wants to hear
-Rooms that have blatantly had very little time spent on them

To improve:

-Fix up all the bad points I mentioned
-Get rid of the player taunt in 1W
-Add more checkpoints to 2N2W for players that *might* go wrong
-Less "hack 'n' slash"
-More creative use of the spider element

Overall rating: 3 brains, 3.5 for fun.

____________________________
55th Skywatcher

Someone Else
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1300
Registered: 06-14-2005
IP: Logged

DairmossX wrote:
the arrows are soully for the purpose of keeping the roach queens in place, not meant to be frustrating or to trap the player.

Yeah, I know. I just always find myself running into the walls past them :/ Oh well, that's all my fault.

DairmossX
Level: Goblin

Rank Points: 22
Registered: 09-28-2009
IP: Logged

Yes it is hahaha.

i kid.

i've got some of the levels fixed up, i've still got a couple of filler rooms, but they arent as bad, i'll upload the new version when i can get back on the computer im running TCB on.

oh, and yes, i put in your remake of that room, its gonna be a lot harder than the original.

TheGreenPhantom
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 39
Registered: 09-11-2009
IP: Logged

Comments:
1) Good coffee break hold.
2) Great for beginners.
Specific room comments:



____________________________
I am not made of matter.. does it matter if you are made of matter? Or does it not matter if you are made of matter?

DairmossX
Level: Goblin

Rank Points: 22
Registered: 09-28-2009
IP: Logged

I uploaded the new version, using a few tweaks here and there

Changes:

Crash site:
2S: added a bit of added complexity, more enemies tar and mud, and brains.
3S: no modification, im not sure what to do with the room.
4S: whole fort layout changed, 1 room instead of 4
5S: New exit for spider caves.

Spider caves:
1W: Whole room change, layout and style. no spiders at all.
1E: removed
1S: Level exit
2W. added 3 adders, a brain and some seeps
2N1W: First time attempting a briar puzzle. not complex at all.
2N2W: Still the same
3N2W: Secret room, slight mimic of last room with a diffrent theme.
4N2W: Added the option of using either invisibility or speed, either option disabling the other.
side rooms off of 2W3N: removed (cave in)

the other secret room: 1S1W: adders removed, replaced with brains, added a few more roaches, and aumtlich are no longer secured by force arrows.

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[Last edited by DairmossX at 10-24-2009 05:38 AM]

TheGreenPhantom
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 39
Registered: 09-11-2009
IP: Logged

Excellent update.


____________________________
I am not made of matter.. does it matter if you are made of matter? Or does it not matter if you are made of matter?

brian_s
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 587
Registered: 05-27-2004
IP: Logged

This hold is coming along nicely, certainly better than the first verion I played.

- Crash Site -


- Spider Caves -

DairmossX
Level: Goblin

Rank Points: 22
Registered: 09-28-2009
IP: Logged

1N 2W : Oh. This is a filler room - It's pretty easy.. Strike the orb and you're done. Why don't you "spice it up a little" or remove it altogether..?

I'm not sure i want to remove it, but i dont know how to spice it up either. Im not good at working on a room that every single bit of movement has to be carefully worked out, i just go for it when i make rooms. I'm not patient.

6N2W: Pretty easy to not leave rubble on the trapdoors. Challenge: drop all the golem rubble into the pit

if that would be an actual challenge, then i need more rock golems, i didnt make it very hard to drop all of them out.

i actually havent beaten the room and left any rubble.

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[Last edited by DairmossX at 10-25-2009 06:41 AM]

CuriousShyRabbit
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3170
Registered: 10-14-2006
IP: Logged

I've played through this one as well. It looks nice, and most puzzles are easy, such that a relatively new DROD player would enjoy them.

I usually don't like spiders, but your spider rooms are the best part of this hold. You've really explored the different ways a player can deal with spiders.

My least favorite rooms are the roach horde rooms, where there is just plain too much roach smiting without the need to be particularly clever. In particular, Spider Caves 2N3W took forever.

There are a few bugs in the current version of this hold.

Crash Site 2S

Spider Caves 1W

DairmossX
Level: Goblin

Rank Points: 22
Registered: 09-28-2009
IP: Logged

Good eye on those messed up parts, i will fix that. I also should put an open blue door over the entrance that way people know they HAVE to go the other way.

Next revision (if i can EVER get the computer back that has TCB on it) will fix those definately.

DairmossX
Level: Goblin

Rank Points: 22
Registered: 09-28-2009
IP: Logged

re-reading this 3 years later, looking at prior puzzles and what not...noticing im hating a lot of my old puzzles. expect a lot of new changes within these rooms soon-ish. i've already tweaked a bit of it to be more complex. still wondering what to do about 2n1w to make it less stupid. Shall come back to this when i get the time, to fix it/update/ etc.

Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3746
Registered: 10-01-2004
IP: Logged

I may be wrong, but I don't think it's possible to complete Spider Caves, since there's no raft back in 1W.

A number of rooms could do with more checkpoints, e.g. 2N2W and 1S1W.

____________________________
New to DROD? You may want to read this.
My Holds and Levels:

DairmossX
Level: Goblin

Rank Points: 22
Registered: 09-28-2009
IP: Logged

yes, im aware of that one, thats on my list of things to fix with the next update

DairmossX
Level: Goblin

Rank Points: 22
Registered: 09-28-2009
IP: Logged

fixed a few things, but not all of it is completely up-to-date. didn't even change Spider Caves: 6n2w yet, but i have an idea about something to fix with that.