Ezlo
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S.A.B.E.R.S. Chambers: 2s1e. I solved the room without letting the fegundo fly over a pit the whole room. Is this intended?

Jacob
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I had assumed so.

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Chaco
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You're both wrong - you're supposed to hit an orb with a fegundo, not a mimic. But that's an easy fix.

Jacob - ha ha ha, you're clever. That's definitely not intended, but fixable. I commend you for even trying to do that.

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Ezlo
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Okay, I need some help on Dank Corridors: 2s2e and on Plaster Passages 1n. I'm also stuck on PP: 2n2w but I'm so close to figuring it out myself I don't want a hint. Can I have some help on the other two?

Chaco
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For Plaster Passages 1N, all you need is good timing and a bit of foresight.

The reason you might be stuck in Dank Corridors Twice South Twice East could be because you've fallen for a red herring. With this new information, go back to the room.



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Jacob
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Dank Passages 1S1E really needs a checkpoint in the little room or along the path of the mimic; I ended up getting pretty infuriated with all the restarts.

Not clear to me why the level isn't totally optional. Seems you can bypass the whole thing.

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Chaco
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Jacob wrote:
Dank Passages 1S1E really needs a checkpoint in the little room or along the path of the mimic; I ended up getting pretty infuriated with all the restarts.

Can do.

Not clear to me why the level isn't totally optional. Seems you can bypass the whole thing.

Before you can complete the hold you come back to a small unrequired room on that level with a blue door.

I might want to make that room accessible from the main part of the level to make it more obvious that this is so (as I did with Terrakept Resonant Quince Descended Once South Once East).

As soon as I can come up with another mud puzzle I will upload a new version.

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Ezlo
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Okay, the PP1N room I was just being dense and not seeing the last orb your supposed to hit, I was just using the three patterned ones.

Now for the other room, I have been trying placing it in alternate places for a while now, and nowhere works. I seem to need to hit the first pressure plate so I can release the roach, but if I do that I end up moving the roach more than I should anyway. If I place the clone near the second pressure plate, I can't get it on it without getting trapped by a aumtlich. A little more help please?

Jacob
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Quite a nice room.





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Ezlo
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Bleh, that's how you stop the roach. Great room Chaco!

On to the last level!


EDIT: Hmm... I'm getting no music in the last level, is this intentional?

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[Last edited by Ezlo at 11-11-2007 11:09 PM]

Chaco
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Hmm, that would be because the Voids style in your DROD program hasn't got any music files associated with it. And that would be because style files don't take music settings with them, I believe.

If you'd like to hear music in this level, you can copy-paste the following into the Songs portion of drod.ini:

VoidsAmbient=fortress ambient.ogg
VoidsAttack=city aggr 2.ogg
VoidsAttack=city aggr 1.ogg
VoidsExit=fortress win.ogg
VoidsPuzzle=above cont 2.ogg
VoidsPuzzle=above cont 1.ogg

Alternatively, assign your own songs to the style.

A new version has been uploaded, fixing the unintended solutions you guys pointed out. Also, Mud Tanks 2N1W and 3N1W have been replaced with new puzzles, so try them out! The old puzzles are still available in a section of the Hall of Mastery.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 11-12-2007 01:07 AM]

Ezlo
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1214
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Okay, I think I'm done for the night, but I have to say, RE1S2W is a brilliant room deserving of much praise!

Ezlo
Level: Smitemaster

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I managed to complete RE2S1W without touching the power token, is this intended?

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
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Most definitely.

There is a room in Hall of Mastery where (essentially) you have to touch the power token

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Ezlo
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Okay then, two more rooms to go!

Ezlo
Level: Smitemaster

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I give up, how does one stop the eastern stand of gel from connecting in RE2W? I can do the other three, but not that one.

Also, how does one do 2s? I can't figure it out.

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
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Repulsive Emulsions Twice West:

There's two points where you can temporarily disconnect the gel mother's connection to the eastern side. That will get you the extra spawn you need on that branch.

Repulsive Emulsions Twice South:

The goal of the room is to block the gel from reaching the far pressure plates.

This is done by

I'd like to know whether there are any other problems with this hold soon, so I can add some more content and submit the hold to the Hold Administrators.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 11-19-2007 12:20 AM]

Neather2
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 406
Registered: 07-18-2006
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Not bad hold.

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Conspiracy, my new hold, has just been released.

CuriousShyRabbit
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3170
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I played some of this hold last week and enjoyed it very much.

If more comments from testers are wanted, I'd be happy to provide some this week and over the long holiday weekend.

Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3746
Registered: 10-01-2004
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Sorry for not writing more comments.
Am halfway through the builder level.
No problems found yet, some cool rooms.

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CuriousShyRabbit
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I started over from the beginning, since there have been some changes made. I like the story very much.

Case Study

S.A.B.E.R.S. (cool name for a level)

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
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Case Study secret:

Yeah, it's fine that you solved the room that way, since that's the intended solution - you have to be clever enough to spot that detail and be willing to solve it the "unintentional" way.

S.A.B.E.R.S. 1N and 2S3E:

Those are a reward for exploring around - they give the observant player a chance to get 100% exploration on the level.

S.A.B.E.R.S. secret:

Yeah, that's what you have to do. Luckily, I decided to be nice and give you an extra spawn (even though you don't need it).

Keep going! You're doing great and you're getting to some of the best levels of the hold.


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CuriousShyRabbit
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OK, I think I'll come back to the S.A.B.E.R.S. secret later.

Mud Tanks

Dank Corridors

Plaster Passages

Chaco
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CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
Mud Tanks
Entrance -

Click here to view the secret text

×Nice puzzle. It felt a little funny to be frying a bunch of golems on a level about mud, though.

Yeah, you're right. This puzzle might actually fit better on the Case Study level (the first one) since it's not too hard and doesn't depend on anything besides wraithwing knowledge (which isn't too involved here)

1N -

Click here to view the secret text

×This relatively simple puzzle gave a better feel for what the level would be like.

This area (and the resulting arrival of one of the antagonists) is supposed to signify the actual entry into the Mud Tanks.

1N1E -

Click here to view the secret text

×What a contraption! It took a while to figure out what I was supposed to do with it. Then, it was fun cutting the mud to make just the right number of babies. You'd think that the room would be too easy when babies from cut mud don't move. Instead it made a cool puzzle.

Thanks, this is my favorite room on the level

1N1W -

Click here to view the secret text

×I hid in the closet behind the mimic while the fegundo did all the work.

That's the intended solution - you'll realise quickly a swordless mimic and a single fegundo will do a terrible job at defending you from that many mud babies.

2N1W -

Click here to view the secret text

×I see there's a new puzzle here. It wasn't hard to plan out a solution. I tend to prefer this kind of planning puzzle over the run-for-your-life kind of puzzle.

Yeah, I like this one a lot more than the old 2N1W. The room should be pretty interesting to optimize too.

3N1W -

Click here to view the secret text

×Another new puzzle. After a bit of fiddling around, I realized what trapdoor should be dropped last and the room "fell apart".

Haha, yes. I realized that the room contained a C but backwards, but by that time it was far too late to flip the room.

2N2W

Click here to view the secret text

×- I'm a wimp - I used the speed potion. The first part of the room, getting the mimic trapped on the pressure plate, was the most interesting part of the room for me.

Yeah, I figured an optional challenge not required for mastery would be fun

2N -

Click here to view the secret text

×This is a neat idea for a room. Solve it one way to conquer it, and another way to escape. I wish the two solutions could have been more different though.

Thanks. Yeah, I think the room isn't really "different" enough - I might need to remedy that.

secret -

Click here to view the secret text

×I worked very hard not to kill the stalwart when clearing the mud in this room, because I was hoping he'd shake hands with T.T. or say "well done" or something. Aw shucks.

Actually, hearing that you didn't have much trouble with the room made me try the room again - and it turns out I thought the room was a lot harder than it was. So let me ask you a question...



Anyway, I agree the Stalwart should give you praise - it's not an easy room to complete.

Dank Corridors
1S2E & secret -

Click here to view the secret text

×Well I never thought I'd want to be stunned by an aumtlich! I was stumped for quite a while. Nice job! The secret version was not much harder than the regular one.

The secret is supposed to enforce you never getting stunned, not even temporarily. However, most of the time in the non-secret version if you're stunned you stay stunned forever anyway.

2S -

Click here to view the secret text

×Another very nice idea for a room. I liked using the mimics as "portable obstacles."

Thanks. I like the idea, and further like the use of arrow traps to make the room interesting to optimize. It's also possible to figure out by logic exactly where you need to put the obstacles.

2S2E -

Click here to view the secret text

×After I saw how to get an infinite number of clone switches (move T.T. up one square, don't know why that was hard to see), the room was easy.

Yeah, but it's a difficult lynchpin to see - especially if you

1S1E -

Click here to view the secret text

×I have not solved this room yet. Got frustrated with starting over and over and over again after messing after messing up the trapdoors. I was hoping there might be a way to solve it from the south, but I guess not. I'll come back to it later, when I need to drop the blue door in 1E.

The next version has more checkpoints on the trapdoor path, since dropping those trapdoors should be the least difficult part of the room. Just to be extra-nice, I'll even give you more room in the tiny chamber - expanding it to 3x3.

Also, did you find the room

Plaster Passages
2W -

Click here to view the secret text

×I cheated! Exploded one fegundo on the pressure plate, and sent the other to get the eye. It didn't matter what the builders were doing.

Yeah, you did cheat. Fixed by placing an east-facing arrow protecting the eye.

1S1W -

Click here to view the secret text

×A straightforward room, where I aligned two builders.

2N2W -

Click here to view the secret text

×The training in synchronizing builders from 1S1W came in handy in this more involved puzzle. I didn't need the long parallel doors or the speed potion.

I agree with what you say about both of these rooms.

1N1W -

Click here to view the secret text

×I got lucky here. I locked the first four builders out of their stations, and stood in the way of the fifth builder until he turned around to go home. But then one of the first four was blocking him, and I had infinite time to get to the conquer token.

Seems like this would be about as hard (if not harder) to pull off than the intentional solution, so I'll leave that in.

3N -

Click here to view the secret text

×Cool idea for an orb puzzle. It was quite easy to solve a 3x3 puzzle like this.

I liked that too. 2N works well to explain the widgets in 3N. In order to make a larger version of this "stacking" puzzle (which need not be square, of course) I'd have to replace the walls with some floor type so the builders could build any trapdoors surrounded by other built areas.

In summary, I think this is a good level, where everything the builders do is entirely predictable and can be planned around.

Thank you very much for going through these levels. I really appreciate your feedback and the hold will be a lot better because of it.

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Bingbing
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 22
Registered: 04-28-2007
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Best. Hall of Mastery. Ending. Ever.

(fine, I cheated and used the editor)

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Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3626
Registered: 10-06-2005
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I think I prefer Terrakept Resonant's, where



In any case, I don't think you've mastered every single hold in existence and that will ever exist in the future, so I think your statement is unjustified

I'd like your feedback if you have any to offer.

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CuriousShyRabbit
Level: Smitemaster
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Sounds like you're cooking up a new version. I'll continue onwards before coming back to rooms that will be changed. I'm almost done with Repulsive Emulsions and it looks like I've seen some of the postmastery rooms before.

In reply to some of your replies...

Mud Tanks : secret room

Chaco wrote:
Actually, hearing that you didn't have much trouble with the room made me try the room again - and it turns out I thought the room was a lot harder than it was. So let me ask you a question...

Click here to view the secret text

×Did you attack the mud mother from the north or from the south?

Dank Corridors : 1S2E & secret

The secret is supposed to enforce you never getting stunned, not even temporarily. However, most of the time in the non-secret version if you're stunned you stay stunned forever anyway.

Oh! Did I find an unintended solution?

Also, did you find the room

Click here to view the secret text

×2S3E

Yes, I did. That case study researcher looks and sounds an awful lot like the Chaco we met in Terrakept Resonant. I don't suppose the Cs scattered around the rest of the hold are at all related to that? His mannerisms remind me a lot of the Denfry character in Beethro's Teacher.

Plaster Passages : 1N1W

Seems like this would be about as hard (if not harder) to pull off than the intentional solution, so I'll leave that in.

Actually, I did that because I couldn't figure out the intended solution.

3N

In order to make a larger version of this "stacking" puzzle (which need not be square, of course) I'd have to replace the walls with some floor type so the builders could build any trapdoors surrounded by other built areas.

It would be fun to see one of these in the postmastery level.

In summary, I think this is a good level, where everything the builders do is entirely predictable and can be planned around.

Agreed. I've learned a lot about builders this month.

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3626
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In reply to some of your replies to some of my replies...

CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
Mud Tanks : secret room

Click here to view the secret text

×I attacked from the south. The fegundo exposed the mud mother's eyes, and the stalwart killed her.

Sounds about right. I'll keep it as-is so it's not difficult to master the hold, but the variation in the Hall of Mastery will enforce attacking the mother from the north... which is much harder.

Dank Corridors : 1S2E & secret

The secret is supposed to enforce you never getting stunned, not even temporarily. However, most of the time in the non-secret version if you're stunned you stay stunned forever anyway.

Oh! Did I find an unintended solution?

Click here to view the secret text

×I thought you were supposed to be stunned at the end when manipulating the fegundos. I couldn't see any other way to do it!

No, no, I meant you couldn't get stunned on the hot tiles. The goal of the room is still the same as before, but it's harder to execute that now.

That case study researcher looks and sounds an awful lot like the Chaco we met in Terrakept Resonant. I don't suppose the Cs scattered around the rest of the hold are at all related to that?

I suppose you haven't seen S.A.B.E.R.S. Chambers Twice South then. Or double-clicked 53rd Tar Technician's portrait to view the speech log, which also helpfully reveals character names.

Plaster Passages : 1N1W
Actually, I did that because I couldn't figure out the intended solution.

The intended solution is to

3N

In order to make a larger version of this "stacking" puzzle (which need not be square, of course) I'd have to replace the walls with some floor type so the builders could build any trapdoors surrounded by other built areas.

It would be fun to see one of these in the postmastery level.

That's doable.

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CuriousShyRabbit
Level: Smitemaster
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I'm having trouble with Repulsive Emulsions 2W.
But, here are some comments on the rest of the level...

Repulsive Emulsions

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3626
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CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
I'm having trouble with Repulsive Emulsions 2W.

Click here to view the secret text

×While I am able to disconnect the central gel blob from the mother on all 4 sides, I seem to be doing it wrong on the southern side, as I keep creating gel babies (in between blobs) that I can't destroy later. Suggestions?

Hint - there's no way to avoid creating those gel babies.



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