calamarain
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It was alluded to in the Illumination that the forum is getting quieter and quieter. This is correct. And it's not good.

I suspect the forum will revitalise when DROD: RPG is released. I suspect the same will also happen when the Second Sky is released. But doing something now would also be good. The only thing that will really perk up the forum is new blood - more new DRODders. How are we going to get more people playing DROD? TCB didn't have nearly the publicity that JtRH had, and there's a distinct lack of new people to the place.

Please don't post in this thread just saying something like "I agree", or "We should do X". And seriously, don't be childish enough to post "I agree" just because I said don't do it.

Please post if there actually is something that you can do to help and are willing to do it.

Post "We should do X" only if you are willing to do X, don't just make suggestions with no effort at carrying them out.

Post here if there's something you can do with assistance from the community and need to ask for their help.

In order to start the ball rolling, I'm going to promote DROD as much as possible on my webcomic, on all my personal profiles, and speak to a friend of mine who writes for a gaming blog to see if she can shoehorn a mention of it in.

What can you do to get more people playing DROD? Step forward, volunteer!

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My Holds

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[Last edited by calamarain at 07-09-2008 03:58 PM]

mrimer
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Erik had made some deal to distribute a PR for JtRH and Perfection when they were released, but no such thing was done for TCB. This is something I myself have never done before, so I need to learn more about ways to promote our new game releases. If anyone knows about sending out game PRs to interested sites, etc., then I'd like to hear about it. I'll look into this more myself as time permits.

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Fafnir
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I have two suggestions. Suggestion one is that if you're a university student right now, evangelise to the maths and computer science departments. Seriously. Maths and computer science students and professors tend to like DROD, and once a few of them are interested they'll pass the news along to the rest. See here for a review you might find helpful. (I'm doing this now, albeit with a temporary break due to the holidays.)

Suggestion two is less an immediate fix than a possible way of maximising the bump we get from DROD RPG - send off a review copy to Penny Arcade. Tycho liked Journey to Rooted Hold enough to mention it when he got a copy, and the publicity from a mention there would probably bring in quite a few new faces.

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Dischorran
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To make more explicit one of calamarain's ideas: there are two DROD groups on Facebook. Join 'em to get them in your groups list, put it in your hobbies list, maybe even the occasional status message or posted link. Easy, low-key evangelism. In accordance with the rules, I'll refrain from positing the possibility of a Facebook app accessing one's recent room scores or some such.

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calamarain
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I definitely like Fafnir's idea... sending a review copy to someone who might like it, and thus get us good publicity. Also a press release would probably help

And have joined the DROD facebook group

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My Holds

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[Last edited by calamarain at 07-09-2008 07:21 PM]

vittro
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I've always tried to bring more people to DROD.
I showed DROD to all my MSN and Steam friends.

And I've created an italian review here : http://www.clickitaliansoftware.net/modules.php?name=Reviews&rop=showcontent&id=16

And posted here (100000+ members forum) about DROD :
http://forums.facepunchstudios.com/showthread.php?t=535939&highlight=DROD

Calamarain is right... Tell your friends about DROD! Tell your favourite communities about DROD! Bring more people to DROD-ing!

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http://vittorioromeo.info

Snacko
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Maybe major publications would take a copy if you sent it to them, maybe a magazine with some kind of indie column.

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aztcg7
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Not to be a downer on expanding the community, but I have personally tried to introduce other people to DROD. In the 10 or so people whom I actually got to TRY the game, not a single one continued playing. My stumbling points were as follows:

For the first 2 people or so, I was unawares that you could just download the latest version and put in the free KDD. This meant that I had them download 1.6, and try playing with that. This was a bad idea. I think there should be a version of TCB that contains just the demo, along with a number of preinstalled holds that showcase the best of DROD in a way that doesn't discourage new players.

For the other people, I simply couldn't get them to keep playing when they came across an idiom they couldn't grok. For instance, no less than 2 people left when they came across a room that contained a multiple-mimic maze puzzle. This one, I have no clue as to how to get them to persevere through these rooms they dislike.

For the others, FPS's and the like had rotted their brains. Honestly, they were intelligent people who for some reason, couldn't enjoy a game if it wasn't based entirely upon shooting things as quickly as possible. This twitch component makes it really hard for people to convert to DROD, where you need to think about every single move you make. For these people, perhaps having Unlimited Undo* would be more palatable, as they can retreat more graciously from something they perceive altogether too late.

I realize my post might be a little less hopeful than the previous posts, but the only way to get new people here is to actually have them playing the game, and I think we should focus on getting new players bootstrapped into DROD as painlessly as possible.

*I'm aware of the arguments both for and against UU. I propose that if this gets implemented for there to be 2 separate modes, a UU mode, and a scored mode with single undo. I get that there's still problems, but that's the easiest solution I see for getting a higher retention rate for this group of people.

EDIT: added a paragraph or two I completely spaced on the first time through.

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[Last edited by aztcg7 at 07-10-2008 05:27 AM]

zex20913
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Going along with the FPS brainwipe, one of the big complaints I got was that "I can't stand keyboard control". No idea why, but that's what he said.

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Briareos
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zex20913 wrote:
Going along with the FPS brainwipe, one of the big complaints I got was that "I can't stand keyboard control". No idea why, but that's what he said.

Hmmm... joypad support, anyone?

(As if FPSes were meant to be played with joypads... bleh...)

____________________________
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Rheb
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aztcg7 wrote:
I think there should be a version of TCB that contains just the demo, along with a number of preinstalled holds that showcase the best of DROD in a way that doesn't discourage new players.

I was actually just about to suggest this. Along with the TCB demo I think there could be a hold somewhat like Veere's Dungeon, simple, not too hard, not too big, but still quite puzzling and showing what can really bee done with DROD.

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calamarain
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mrimer: What are your thoughts on this?

Are you (as the most active member of the devteam and thus the most likely to answer questions ) interested in distributing a couple of the more moderate difficulty user-made holds with the TCB demo? And with the full game.

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My Holds

vittro
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calamarain wrote:
mrimer: What are your thoughts on this?

Are you (as the most active member of the devteam and thus the most likely to answer questions ) interested in distributing a couple of the more moderate difficulty user-made holds with the TCB demo? And with the full game.

I think we also need a better tutorial, something with cutscenes that shows the first steps of a younger Beethro in smitemastery...

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calamarain
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OK. We're getting onto people saying "We need to do this" and "We need to do that" again. That's not the point of this thread.

The point of this thread is to say "This needs to be done, to promote DROD" and *actually doing it*, not just making suggestions. Action, not words.

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My Holds

Snacko
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Really the best way to get people to become regulars is to get them to play it, I propose that all forum members attempt to get as many people playing as possible.

Also on the more professional side, why don't we invest in advertising? I know if I see a banner for a free game on a website I often give it a look.

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AtkinsSJ
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OK, I'm going to be incredibly guilty of the 'words without action' thing, but if a basic browser version of, say, KDD could be made, maybe even the first few levels, and distributed to a bunch of Flash game sites, that could really spread the word. People are more likely, I believe, to play something online quickly than to download it first.

Kongregate springs to mind, with the advantage that they give back some of the ad revenue to the developers.

EDIT: And if it could get some badges incorporated, a lot of Kongregate players would go for it just for that.

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[Last edited by AtkinsSJ at 07-10-2008 06:47 PM]

Snacko
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Or maybe we take some select rooms from various holds and make a Flash hold out of it. That really is a great idea, I personally don't have any Flash skill (again, actions without words), but I know that some forum members are avid programmers.

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Fafnir
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AtkinsSJ wrote:
OK, I'm going to be incredibly guilty of the 'words without action' thing, but if a basic browser version of, say, KDD could be made, maybe even the first few levels, and distributed to a bunch of Flash game sites, that could really spread the word. People are more likely, I believe, to play something online quickly than to download it first.

Kongregate springs to mind, with the advantage that they give back some of the ad revenue to the developers.

EDIT: And if it could get some badges incorporated, a lot of Kongregate players would go for it just for that.

That is a sufficiently awesome idea that I might just be learning Flash this holiday if no-one else steps up... I agree with Snacko that a new hold might be a good idea, though, for various reasons:

1) KDD is paced for 25 levels, with the result that the first few levels are kind of easy - there should be at least a couple of rooms with teeth (besides the Eight Gates of Bill).

2) KDD wasn't designed for use with a spawn counter and undo, which I presume would be built into the Flash version to minimise frustration.

3) Most of the interesting monsters don't come into play in the first few levels of KDD - I think the first four levels only contain roaches and roach queens, with the occasional wraithwing. (And they don't come into their own until later levels.)

4) If someone plays the Flash version and likes it, they're going to get irritated when they download Architect's/buy KDD and there's no way to carry their progress over to CaravelNet (barring heavy developer involvement).

5) Most sites give you a reasonably small window size, probably too small for a hold not designed to scale.

I like Kongregate as a site choice - DROD is perfectly suited to badges (challenges!), and it seems to come up on Digg quite often so we have a chance there. The only other point is that we'd probably need Caravel's consent to use DROD tiles, but I doubt that would be an issue unless something went drastically wrong in development.

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Jatopian
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We'd use AE tiles anyway due to the window size, and maybe sprite a few elements from later games.

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NiroZ
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Wasn't there a discussion a while back about making a java version of DROD?

vittro
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Jatopian wrote:
We'd use AE tiles anyway due to the window size, and maybe sprite a few elements from later games.

I can sprite the other elements at AE size

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halyavin
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Jatopian wrote:
We'd use AE tiles anyway due to the window size, and maybe sprite a few elements from later games.

Or may be make the room size a bit smaller but use full sized tiles?

Someone Else
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One problem with Kongregate.

eb0ny
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Someone Else wrote:
One problem with Kongregate.

There's plenty of material for achievements here, so no problems with that.

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Snacko
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If the room size was smaller (which I believe would be necessary), we would need to make all new rooms for it. Let's get a practical room size (XxY) and make some rooms in the editor with additional tiles filled in by walls, thus all the designs will be finished and all that needs to be done is scripting.

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Snacko
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Hurry! I've made a topic almost blatantly advertising DROD on IGN, I have followed my post with a disclaimer to the moderators, but I fear this may not be enough, moderators are far more likely to delete a topic no one is supporting so get in there and support it!

Hurry!

EDIT: Okay, yeah, the points are nice but seriously, no one is going to take me seriously unless someone else backs my recommendation. IGN is a very popular forum and signing up is free.

____________________________
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[Last edited by Snacko at 07-11-2008 10:14 PM]

Someone Else
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You said that no enemy take more than one hit to kill. What about adders and rattlesnakes?

Snacko
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Someone Else wrote:
You said that no enemy take more than one hit to kill. What about adders and rattlesnakes?

Arghhh!!!! That was about 10 minutes too late for me to edit!

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Jacob
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I think a stumbling block with getting people to get interested is are all the versions. This was definitely the case when introducing the game to someone recently.

I wanted him to get AE because then he could get a full version for free, and all 25 levels of KDD. But I don't think KDD's as good a hold as JtRH, and of course does not have speech etc.

So recommended JtRH demo, but of course that's not a full game.
I also recommended playing the (free) usermade holds, but then, if he's going to do that, he's better off getting TCB demo.
But, while TCB's a great hold, I didn't think it was necessarily the best for a beginner (in terms of difficulty, and the fact that a lot of the start is puzzle-less, and a lot is swordless, which is atypical of DROD as a whole).

Further confusion arose with him asking me what KDD2.0 was, and having to explain that it was the same as the hold you get with AE, but in a different engine, but also with speech and secrets, but also you have to pay for the full version.

I also wanted him to try Smitemastery (since I wanted him to try on of my holds, and also because it's aimed specifically at beginners). But then this required him to be using 2.0 or above, and he'd have to buy it.

So it was all pretty confusing.

So, my suggestions: maybe some recommended start-up packages?
and maybe a document explaining how everything fits together and maybe recommending good usermade holds to start off with.

I could help with this.

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Syntax
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Snacko, that was simply brilliant and I appreciate you taking the time to write your piece. I'm sure certain details could be argued but at least you went out and did something.