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Syntax
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I think it works well and has done so for nearly 10 years.

Sure, there'll be debates like this occasionally but scores are a subject of rivalry in any genre so doubt that can be avoided. Either way, the nature of the DROD community seems to follow the "unwritten" guideline of fair play.
08-31-2011 at 04:44 AM
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Tahnan
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People who really, really enjoyed this argument about whether it's ethical to watch and/or copy other people's demos are welcome to go read this topic, as long as they promise not to talk about it.

Personally, I continue to only very rarely download a demo that isn't my own. (I think, in fact, the only times I've downloaded other people's demos in the last, oh, let's say six months have been in cases where my own demo is significantly faster than anyone else's, and I'm trying to figure out where the delay was for someone who took longer.) But that's, let me stress, personal. Yeah, I optimize--I've been replaying old holds where I have an average rank of worse than six or seven, to try to bring up those scores--but I'm doing it to see how well I can do, not to beat anyone else.

Besides, it's a puzzle: in one room, mxvladi had a score four moves faster than the other seven people who'd beaten it, including myself, who'd uniformly taken 367 moves. Based on my own playing, it seemed literally impossible to shave off four moves; the room requires waiting until turn 360, and then there were an obligatory seven moves that followed. How, then, I wanted to know, did mxvladi possibly do it? Now, I could have downloaded his demo, watched it, and then done that; also, when I'm doing a crossword puzzle, I could just flip to the answer grid and fill in the letters that're there. But why would I? The whole point, for me, isn't "hey look I have a high score/a finished grid"; it's "wow, I was able to figure that out".

Of course, if someone else wants to do a crossword puzzle with an open dictionary, or by Googling answers, or by sitting next to someone and poking them every few minutes and saying "Hey what's a seven letter word for 'Having fun'?", or copying the answer grid--well, hey, it's their puzzle, they should do whatever makes them happy. I'll be over here doing it the way that makes me happy.

Your mileage may vary.
08-31-2011 at 09:16 AM
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The difference there is that AFAIK there's not a "New York Times Crossword Puzzle Leaderboard" that people can get some advantage on by poking the guy next to them asking for answers.

Where there's competition, there's going to be people who want to compete at a high level using any means. Some people follow the spirit of the law, some people follow the letter.

I agree with CSR that if we start writing lists of things you can't do, we'd need to be exhaustive or people will exploit anything you don't explicitly mention. As such I don't expect such a list to happen.

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08-31-2011 at 01:13 PM
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Schik wrote:
The difference there is that AFAIK there's not a "New York Times Crossword Puzzle Leaderboard" that people can get some advantage on by poking the guy next to them asking for answers.

Actually there is. Or was, at least, when I used to subscribe to the NYT puzzle online.

It's a little odd. I am in exact agreement with Tahnan regarding crossword puzzles - I have no interest in using hints or outside input of any kind to solve them - but for me that doesn't extend to figuring out how someone solved a DROD room 7 moves faster than someone else. Maybe it's that to me the only challenge is solving the room in however many moves; I generally don't bother with optimizing.
08-31-2011 at 07:54 PM
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Tahnan
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Schik wrote:
The difference there is that AFAIK there's not a "New York Times Crossword Puzzle Leaderboard" that people can get some advantage on by poking the guy next to them asking for answers.
Well, sure, but part of my point is that for me, personally, the leaderboard doesn't mean that much.
08-31-2011 at 08:42 PM
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I watch a lot of demos and am glad this is a feature. The only time I use them to my advantage is knowing which entrance to use. Other times I like watching in awe at the #1 playthrough and settle for a top 8.
09-02-2011 at 09:01 PM
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Been a while since the last update but I don't feel like I've moved all that far. The air is feeling thin and I'm only at Everest's Base Camp.

Currently sitting at 101. My goal for a long time has been to get to the fifth page or above (making my position viewable with only one click on the high-scores page).

The targets are far enough apart in points (but close enough in rank) that the next few will be right next to each other.

Schep (99) to go next. Followed by MeckMeck GRE (98) and then Elfstone (94). That should keep me busy for a while :)

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09-08-2011 at 06:41 PM
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west.logan wrote:
Schep (99) to go next. Followed by MeckMeck GRE (98) and then Elfstone (94). That should keep me busy for a while :)
Good lord!! 94?? really? last time I looked I was somewhere around 185. :w00t how on earth did I manage that? :~(

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09-08-2011 at 08:47 PM
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Elfstone wrote:
west.logan wrote:
Schep (99) to go next. Followed by MeckMeck GRE (98) and then Elfstone (94). That should keep me busy for a while :)
Good lord!! 94?? really? last time I looked I was somewhere around 185. :w00t how on earth did I manage that? :~(
Most likely by remaining active while others did not. As has been said, you get points for completing rooms, not just for getting good scores on them.

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09-09-2011 at 12:48 AM
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west.logan
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Elfstone wrote:
Good lord!! 94?? really? last time I looked I was somewhere around 185. :w00t how on earth did I manage that? :~(

By being awesome, Elfstone.

Seriously though, you have completed or at least tried a significant amount of holds, and this contributes quite a bit.

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09-09-2011 at 06:45 PM
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west.logan wrote:
By being awesome, Elfstone.
awwww . . . :blush

Seriously though, you have completed or at least tried a significant amount of holds, and this contributes quite a bit.
I hadn't realised that. No doubt you'll overtake me soon enough. ;)

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09-10-2011 at 04:25 PM
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VaC and me had a lot of conversations regarding the "cheating aspect" of downloading demos. She rarely downloads demos at all. I tend to download quite a few demos especially in multi-entrance rooms to know where the best entrance is so far.

If I lose a #1 or a #1 battle starts, I will definitely download their demo but I think this is standard practice. In many cases, an improved solution will involve a different strategy rather than a missed move snipe.

In any case, I'm all for optimising rooms via #1 battles for the fact of finding a highly optimised solution regardless of who wins. I do love watching the results of a #1 battle when 3rd place is 5x more moves than 1st and 2nd place...

All in all, I wouldn't feel bad about it. It's there for a reason, and you can learn a lot of tricks from watching others... I certainly have
09-17-2011 at 10:40 AM
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west.logan
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Currently sitting at 96th, so got a bit of a foothold into the fifth page now.

Schep, Timo006, and MeckMeck GRE are all down. Next up: Elfstone (94)

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09-19-2011 at 07:05 PM
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west.logan
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Elfstone down. Jacob (91) next.

I just realized that I know nobody on the fourth page. So perhaps no targets there.

Really, this is higher than I thought I would end up at before I lost interest.

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09-21-2011 at 08:50 PM
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I'm pretty sure you're joking but I knew a guy who took a year off from university to hone his gaming skills (for competing on a website). He ended up ranked close to 15th overall I think. :no

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09-22-2011 at 01:17 PM
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Syntax
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west.logan wrote:
I'm pretty sure you're joking but I knew a guy who took a year off from university to hone his gaming skills (for competing on a website). He ended up ranked close to 15th overall I think. :no
Who was that? Myself and VodkaAndCoke took about a year off work and don't regret "the drod days" :)

[EDIT]

Highest ranks achieved was 4th and 8/9th I think. Both got in the top 10 in any case

[Last edited by Syntax at 09-24-2011 09:11 PM]
09-24-2011 at 09:09 PM
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west.logan
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No, this was for Perfect Dark. I doubt you'd know him.

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09-25-2011 at 02:29 PM
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Hmm, I was aiming at Jacob (91) but apparently he's still active. So now shooting for the Jacob in 88th place. Stop moving will ya?!

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10-24-2011 at 05:27 PM
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One of my motivations for jumping up a couple of points, was seeing that you were coming up to overtake me.

Muahahaha

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10-24-2011 at 06:37 PM
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Tahnan
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Trickster wrote:
My collective insane timidities toward (1) other women and (2) rabbits....
Hey, bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes. They've got those hoppy legs and twitchy little noses--and what's with all the carrots? What do they need such good eyesight for, anyway?
10-25-2011 at 05:31 AM
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Ask Elfstone about rabbits sometime.

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10-25-2011 at 07:59 PM
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Tahnan wroteHey, bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes. They've got those hoppy legs and twitchy little noses--and what's with all the carrots? What do they need such good eyesight for, anyway?
I miss Joss. Even if he did slice her in half.
10-26-2011 at 02:34 AM
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are we going to derail this thread to be about My Little Pony

because I'm /on it/ if we are
10-26-2011 at 06:35 AM
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I think the rails are somewhere over the horizon by this point anyway.

That said, west.logan really needs to pick up the pace so that I can have my 42nd place on the leaderboard back.

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10-26-2011 at 07:01 AM
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Trickster, when did you suddenly become completely fantastic?
10-26-2011 at 10:02 AM
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Jatopian wrote:
Ask Elfstone about rabbits sometime.

Rabbits?! :-O . . . RABBITS!? :yikes

did someone mention

RABBITS?!!!!

don't start me! just DON'T start me . . . . :blowup

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10-26-2011 at 10:42 AM
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If the explosion smiley is involved, you know things are serious.
10-26-2011 at 12:32 PM
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Trickster wrote:
Tahnan wrote:
What do they need such good eyesight for, anyway?
To tell the time, of course...
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...not that Fluttershy ever listens, mind you.
You do realize that was a reference to Alice in Wonderland, don't you? Referencing something that was already a reference is sorta like spoofing on a spoof... although I won't hold it against you in this case, since reference was to MLP. ;)
I prefer to act upon the assumption that every thread is MLP:FIM-related, whether or not it is in the process of overt Sweetie Belle Derelle.
You are now my new best friend!

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[Last edited by Rat Man at 10-26-2011 08:42 PM]
10-26-2011 at 08:39 PM
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Jatopian
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Elfstone wrote:
RABBITS?!!!!
But bunnies are so cute and fuzzy! And curious and shy.
Click here to view the secret text
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[Last edited by Jatopian at 10-26-2011 08:43 PM]
10-26-2011 at 08:42 PM
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Oh, it's just a harmless little bunny, isn't it?
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10-26-2011 at 11:31 PM
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