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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Dual Thinking (One Story, Two Heros, Some Scripting And Bosses)
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Marcefabian
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File: Dual Thinking.hold (158.8 KB)
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icon Dual Thinking (+6)  
Well, this is my first hold, you have the control of two characters arround the hold, Carlos (the citizen/stalwart) and Bill (the goblin) they want to stop a war, before it starts

In every level (except the prologue) you have to face a boss fight (well, they aren't exactly bosses, but they use some scripting and are diferent compared with the other rooms of the level)
Note: the final boss is really a boss

The hold has two languages (Spanish and English), to select it, just go down at the start of the hold (the default is spanish)

One last note: i don't speak english, so, mayby you can find some spelling errors, or something like that in the dialogs :|
i
Edit: the translations are done. :D have fun

Edit 2: now more checkpoints and another secret

Edit 3: hold uncapitalized, boss mode changed (now is an hard boss mode) and some litle changes and fix

[Last edited by Marcefabian at 10-09-2010 06:39 PM]
08-31-2010 at 02:55 AM
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egg egg
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icon Re: Dual Thinking (+1)  
There are a lot of translation issues so far, and I have just started the game.

If you like, I could go through and change the text so that it sounds more normal.

It's obvious what the characters mean, so it wouldn't be too hard to clean up.

I might not be able to do the whole thing, I don't know how much text there is. I'll have a look though.

p.s (you'll need to make it editable, and pm me a link)



[Last edited by egg egg at 08-31-2010 04:39 PM]
08-31-2010 at 11:11 AM
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TripleM
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icon Re: Dual Thinking (0)  
Translation errors aside, this is pretty impressive for a first hold. In fact, it's pretty impressive for any hold.
08-31-2010 at 10:08 PM
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Jatopian
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icon Re: Dual Thinking (0)  
I don't understand why people capitalize the first letter of each word. It takes longer and I've never heard of anyone who prefers text that way.

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08-31-2010 at 11:07 PM
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Tim
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icon Re: Dual Thinking (0)  
This rather large hold is pretty impressive. I haven't finished it yet (bed time), so I don't want to comment much, but this hold needs more checkpoints.

But it looks like very promising.

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09-01-2010 at 01:54 AM
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12th Archivist
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icon Re: Dual Thinking (0)  
Jatopian wrote:
I don't understand why people capitalize the first letter of each word. It takes longer and I've never heard of anyone who prefers text that way.
Well, Marcefabian did say he (?) didn't speak English. Either the translator capitalizes every word (such as if each word were inserted into the translator separately) or he (?) believes all English sentences should be treated like English titles.

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[Last edited by 12th Archivist at 09-01-2010 02:29 AM]
09-01-2010 at 02:28 AM
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Marcefabian
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icon Re: Dual Thinking (0)  
12th Archivist wrote:
Jatopian wrote:
I don't understand why people capitalize the first letter of each word. It takes longer and I've never heard of anyone who prefers text that way.
Well, Marcefabian did say he (?) didn't speak English. Either the translator capitalizes every word (such as if each word were inserted into the translator separately) or he (?) believes all English sentences should be treated like English titles.

It's my way to write text (when it's something important) isn't the translator, the Spanish text has the capital letter too.
09-01-2010 at 03:38 AM
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Zorglub
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icon Re: Dual Thinking (+1)  
Great first hold!
Few comments so far.
I could really use more checkpoints (BL2-2S3E).
On BL2-2E, the character stuck says that Carlos will soon come. But this has already occurred in CL2.
BL2-1S3E: are there any clues to find the path in the maze? I succeeded randomly but did not see the point.

For now, I'm stuck in CL3-4E, with no clue how to get this conquer token.
09-01-2010 at 02:13 PM
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Tim
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icon Re: Dual Thinking (+1)  
Zorglub wrote:
BL2-1S3E: are there any clues to find the path in the maze? I succeeded randomly but did not see the point.
There's a really big clue that you've missed.
For now, I'm stuck in CL3-4E, with no clue how to get this conquer token.
Click here to view the secret text

Edit: I must say the next level after that is horrible. I don't like guessing, so I'm really not planning to play any further.

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[Last edited by Tim at 09-01-2010 03:47 PM]
09-01-2010 at 03:11 PM
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Marcefabian
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icon Re: Dual Thinking (+1)  
Zorglub wrote:
On BL2-2E, the character stuck says that Carlos will soon come. But this has already occurred in CL2.

That is because the events on BL2-2E happens first, Carlos Can't Put The Stalwart Armor in 5 seconds

Zorglub wrote:
I could really use more checkpoints (BL2-2S3E).
I didn't use checkpoints here because i use the cut scene to make the speed potion efect, that makes the checkpoint useless.

Tim wrote:
Edit: I must say the next level after that is horrible. I don't like guessing, so I'm really not planning to play any further.

Guessing isn't necesary, the cameras have a range of 10x3 tiles, they cann't see through walls, and you can cross over them, they detect the player and monsters, except the spiders, The mosaic floor of 1N is an example of the field of vision of the camera


If sombody wants to help me with the traslation or something, here is the anyone version of my hold
09-01-2010 at 05:09 PM
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egg egg
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icon Re: Dual Thinking (+1)  
I'm doing all the english text, there isn't too much.

In Bill Level 1, Once North

There is no spanish text about the snake, I'll let you put that in.

OK, I've done half of the hold, I'll post it up here when I've finished.
09-02-2010 at 03:15 PM
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egg egg
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File: Egg Eggs Dual Thinking.hold (157 KB)
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icon Re: Dual Thinking (+2)  
Ok, I'm finished (In 1 day :weep)

I tried to change as little as possible, partly to save time, but also because I didn't want to add any new meaning.

It's definately readable now, and with no obvious mistakes (I hope)

You can still tell it wasn't written in English, but it doesn't matter.

Sorry for All the Capitalisation, but It's Part of the Author's Style it Seems, and It Would Have Been Very Hard to Take it All Out.



I didn't do the boss rush mode, but I don't think it needs the story elements again. I would make that bit even harder.
09-02-2010 at 11:21 PM
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Someone Else
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Well, it could be said that capitalization is William Shatner's style. Because. He. Speaks. Like. This. All. The. Time.
09-03-2010 at 04:08 AM
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The Architest
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icon Re: Dual Thinking (0)  
Always dreamed about hold with real bosses. And here we have it! What a clever idea, you got there. I would say this is one of the best holds.

(Smitemaster's Selections with bosses perhaps, eh?)
09-06-2010 at 05:41 PM
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Marcefabian
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icon Re: Dual Thinking (0)  
Now the hold is correctly translated to english (thanks egg egg), so, if there isn't any unintended solutions, bugs, or something, i think the hold is ready to submit it to the hold board. :smile
09-08-2010 at 05:14 PM
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Jacob
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icon Re: Dual Thinking (+1)  
I wouldn't submit just yet - it might be worth giving some more people a chance to play the hold.

And, as Tim says, you should definitely add in more checkpoints first.

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09-08-2010 at 07:20 PM
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Marcefabian
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Jacob wrote:
I wouldn't submit just yet - it might be worth giving some more people a chance to play the hold.

And, as Tim says, you should definitely add in more checkpoints first.

Ok, but, Where do you think i need put the checkpoints? :? (except in BL2, 2S3E)
09-09-2010 at 12:06 AM
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Zch
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icon Re: Dual Thinking (+1)  
Great hold, lots of fun, not too hard. Altering between the two characters makes things interesting, and there is some really nice scripting.

Some thoughts on some rooms...

Marcefabian wrote:
Ok, but, Where do you think i need put the checkpoints? :? (except in BL2, 2S3E)

Put several save points in every room.
Even the ones without any monsters. Event the ones where player just runs through to reach the next room.

The script in BL2 2S3E should be altered so that the save points work. That room really needs save points.

You could put 'Wait while player at 12, 12' before the the cut scene command (12,12 is the save point location in this example). Save point works, but guard slows down when player stands on save point.

You could fix the slow down issue by speeding guard up next turn, (move 3 turns instead of 2), and maybe put hot tile under save point to prevent player standing there too long.

In CL2 2N1E:

It is possible to kill the roach before it kills the tar technician but the tar technician just explodes anyway. :?
This would be a great place to script some bonus fun for players who go through the extra trouble to save him.
09-12-2010 at 02:05 PM
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Marcefabian
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icon Re: Dual Thinking (+1)  
Zch wrote:
Great hold, lots of fun, not too hard. Altering between the two characters makes things interesting, and there is some really nice scripting.

Some thoughts on some rooms...

Marcefabian wrote:
Ok, but, Where do you think i need put the checkpoints? :? (except in BL2, 2S3E)

Put several save points in every room.
Even the ones without any monsters. Event the ones where player just runs through to reach the next room.

The script in BL2 2S3E should be altered so that the save points work. That room really needs save points.

You could put 'Wait while player at 12, 12' before the the cut scene command (12,12 is the save point location in this example). Save point works, but guard slows down when player stands on save point.

You could fix the slow down issue by speeding guard up next turn, (move 3 turns instead of 2), and maybe put hot tile under save point to prevent player standing there too long.

In CL2 2N1E:

It is possible to kill the roach before it kills the tar technician but the tar technician just explodes anyway. :?
This would be a great place to script some bonus fun for players who go through the extra trouble to save him.

Ok, Now all The Rooms In The Hold Have a Save Point (Except The Boss Mode, I Remove Them To Make It Harder)

And Thanks Zch For Saving The Tar Technician, Save Him Again In The New Version. (Look First Post) :)
09-12-2010 at 06:21 PM
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Jatopian
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Marcefabian wrote:
It's my way to write text (when it's something important) isn't the translator, the Spanish text has the capital letter too.
It's obnoxious. Stop it.

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09-13-2010 at 01:26 AM
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12th Archivist
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Jatopian wrote:
Marcefabian wrote:
It's my way to write text (when it's something important) isn't the translator, the Spanish text has the capital letter too.
It's obnoxious. Stop it.
What's worse? The fact that I assumed that you made a relatively mean or demanding comment simply because I saw you had made the most recent post?

...Or the fact that my assumption was correct?

On topic, I really like this hold so far. The puzzles have so far been great and the boss puzzles have been very interesting and unique. I hope this hold gets accepted and put on the holds board when it is ready. Good job! :thumbsup

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09-13-2010 at 01:37 AM
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Jatopian
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Hi 12th, still recovering from your troll pastpresent?

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 09-13-2010 01:48 AM]
09-13-2010 at 01:48 AM
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12th Archivist
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Jatopian wrote:
Hi 12th, still recovering from your troll pastpresent?
I don't want to derail this thread, so I will respond in a PM.

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09-13-2010 at 02:06 AM
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Banjooie
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Capitalizing Every Word?

I For One Welcome Our Jade-Blooded Troll Overlords.
09-17-2010 at 12:40 PM
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Jatopian
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icon Re: Dual Thinking (+2)  
WHY DOES THE BLOOD COLOR MATTER, SQUAWKBULGE?

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09-17-2010 at 07:08 PM
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Tahnan
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For the record: I'd be happy to proofread the text (you can export it and send it to me in a file). On the condition that the hold doesn't contain text with every word capitalized.
09-30-2010 at 06:07 AM
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Marcefabian
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Tahnan wrote:
For the record: I'd be happy to proofread the text (you can export it and send it to me in a file). On the condition that the hold doesn't contain text with every word capitalized.

*sigh*, i'll uncapitalize the hold, i'll just put it in the beginning of sentences, and names like "The Roach Machine"

I still cann't understand the problem, it's just the capital letter, this doesn't affect the gameplay and doesn't make the hold unconquerable, unreadable or something more serious.
09-30-2010 at 03:25 PM
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Dischorran
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UnReAdAbLe? No. AnNoYiNg To ReAd? YeS.

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09-30-2010 at 05:33 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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File: DT Bill Level 2 2S3E Victory.demo (1.7 KB)
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I've conquered this hold, reaching both the good and bad endings.

I found the secret room for the good ending. I need some hints (please) on how to reach the other two secret rooms. The game says there's another in Epilogue, and one in Bill Level 3. I think I see the exit from this latter room in 3N5E, but don't see how to enter it. Does it have something to do with the random number on the scroll in 2N5E?

Some general comments.
1. There are some copyrighted Caravel graphics used in this hold. Did you ask mrimer, and obtain his permission to use them?

2. I strongly recommend using standard English (and Spanish) grammar, punctuation, and capitalization in this hold. You don't want the way the text is presented to distract from the story you're trying to tell. You've done a good job developing your characters, and you want the player to think about Bill and Carlos when reading and playing through the hold. Instead, the player sees the silly weird text and thinks, "what is Marcefabian's problem?"

3. I really enjoy different player roles, and the citizen, stalwart, and goblin roles used here fit in well with the story. I was equally amused at who the final bad guy was.

4. Force arrows on a room entrance are hated by players who compete for highscores. Starting a room with a different initial sword position is a good way to shave moves off of demos, and players who wish to try this in a force arrow room may have to replay some or all of the last puzzle solved. If you must use force arrows on a room entrance in order to make scripts work, optimizers would appreciate it if there were an unavoidable line of checkpoints at the end of the previous room.

I'll have time to write more specific comments tomorrow evening. But I'll leave this demo: I think I broke Bill Level 2: 2S3E.

Overall, good job! With a little polishing, this hold could be great!
10-01-2010 at 10:24 AM
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Marcefabian
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CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
I've conquered this hold, reaching both the good and bad endings.

I found the secret room for the good ending. I need some hints (please) on how to reach the other two secret rooms. The game says there's another in Epilogue, and one in Bill Level 3. I think I see the exit from this latter room in 3N5E, but don't see how to enter it. Does it have something to do with the random number on the scroll in 2N5E?

Some general comments.
1. There are some copyrighted Caravel graphics used in this hold. Did you ask mrimer, and obtain his permission to use them?

2. I strongly recommend using standard English (and Spanish) grammar, punctuation, and capitalization in this hold. You don't want the way the text is presented to distract from the story you're trying to tell. You've done a good job developing your characters, and you want the player to think about Bill and Carlos when reading and playing through the hold. Instead, the player sees the silly weird text and thinks, "what is Marcefabian's problem?"

3. I really enjoy different player roles, and the citizen, stalwart, and goblin roles used here fit in well with the story. I was equally amused at who the final bad guy was.

4. Force arrows on a room entrance are hated by players who compete for highscores. Starting a room with a different initial sword position is a good way to shave moves off of demos, and players who wish to try this in a force arrow room may have to replay some or all of the last puzzle solved. If you must use force arrows on a room entrance in order to make scripts work, optimizers would appreciate it if there were an unavoidable line of checkpoints at the end of the previous room.

I'll have time to write more specific comments tomorrow evening. But I'll leave this demo: I think I broke Bill Level 2: 2S3E.

Overall, good job! With a little polishing, this hold could be great!

To get the secret in Bill level 3, you are right, the random number is the key, but, that isn't a random number, is a counter, when it reach 0, Carlos apears in 3N5E, and when you enter, he opens the secret room (in Carlos level 3 boss, when bill leave the room, a counter variable starts, and stop when you finnish the level, then in Bill level 3, after you leave the boss room, the counter start again backwards, so, if you finnish the final wave and the slayer faster, you need wait less in the other level).
The second secret in the epilogue, that is more complicated, you need save the tar tecnician in Carlos level 2 2N1E (Zch's comment give me the idea), then you can access to the secret room (and save him again there)

And now the answers for the general comments.

1. some?, i only use 1 image, but i didn't think that was too important. :blush

2. My english grammar isn't good, i need someone to help me with the translations (i speak spanish, not english), with the punctuation, well, i put the commas, not the dots, i need fix that, and about the capitalization, i never had any troubles with that when i was making maps for Counter Strike 2D (a map is like a level of a hold), so this problem is new for me.

3. Thanks for the comment. :smile

4. I didn't know, i'll fix that

I knew about the problem, but i thinked "the speed potion efect can fix that", i was wrong.
10-01-2010 at 09:09 PM
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