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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (0)  
I've just played through Molten Core. A fiery level is certainly an appropriate place to find aumtlich! I'm glad they got their own level instead of being mixed in with the giants and mud. The use of grass instead of tiles on the floor was a little troublesome for me though, as I like to be able to see diagonals when manipulating aumtlich, and I like to be able to count squares when manipulating wraithwings.

Individual comments:
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05-06-2009 at 10:17 AM
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Zch
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
quote:
CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
Lava Land 1S2E - Either I'm totally missing something, or you've just made this room impossible. How do I kill the four outer mud babies after placing dead golems on all 16 pressure plates? Screenshot of my predicament attached.


Oops. You are right. This room is impossible. I'll fix this and upload a new version.

Edit: new version is now uploaded.

[Last edited by Zch at 05-06-2009 05:47 PM]
05-06-2009 at 05:26 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (0)  
quote:
Zch wrote:
I'll fix this and upload a new version.
That's better. Lava Land 1S2E works now. :)
05-06-2009 at 10:38 PM
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Kallor
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (0)  
CuriousShyRabbit, can you send us a demo of you conquering Molten Core 2S1E? Your method is different than Rheb's, since I fixed the problem with the mimic placement, but still you call the romm "straightforward". For me, the end of the room is the most difficult part. Do we have an US or are you just a really good player?

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05-07-2009 at 08:01 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (0)  
You may have a US in Molten Core 2S1E, if the mimic was supposed to help Beethro out by freezing an aumtlich from another island. I didn't do that. Maybe I'm just incredibly lucky.

[Last edited by CuriousShyRabbit at 07-10-2009 01:28 AM : demo removed]
05-07-2009 at 08:13 AM
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Kallor
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
That's what you get when you design a puzzle where "Beethro can't beat this horde of monsters without help". Oh yes he can, he always can. Happened in GW 4n2W, MC 2S1E, 4TAF 1W-4W, and so on...
:lol
(Edit: Fixed. Mailing new version to Zch, probably will be updated later.)

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[Last edited by Kallor at 05-07-2009 09:18 AM]
05-07-2009 at 09:05 AM
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Zch
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quote:
Kallor wrote:
Fixed. Mailing new version to Zch, probably will be updated later.

Uploaded new version.
05-07-2009 at 08:21 PM
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Dischorran
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File: GJL Lava Land 5S Victory.demo (3.6 KB)
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+2)  
If a master swordsman can kill a rock giant in a single shot using four mimics, what would be the title of a swordsman who can do it with three?

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05-08-2009 at 06:42 AM
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TFMurphy
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quote:
Dischorran wrote:
If a master swordsman can kill a rock giant in a single shot using four mimics, what would be the title of a swordsman who can do it with three?

Doctor.
05-08-2009 at 10:46 PM
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12th Archivist
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quote:
Dischorran wrote:
If a master swordsman can kill a rock giant in a single shot using four mimics, what would be the title of a swordsman who can do it with three?

The-guy-who-is-not-too-lazy-to-hit-a-tile-of-rock-giant-by-himself-along-with-the-three-other-mimics.

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05-08-2009 at 10:51 PM
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Rheb
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
Ok, I'm mostly through indoors. There are some really fun puzzles, but many filler rooms to. Right now I have only the Robolab and the Slayers house left. The robolab is though for me, but I will keep trying. The Slayer rooms I feel I just don't like :(.

Here's the comments for the rooms I've solved so far.

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[Last edited by Rheb at 05-09-2009 11:48 AM]
05-09-2009 at 11:46 AM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
Everyone seems to be complaining about the Slayer section (I didn't really want to tackle it either, although the rooms generally weren't as bad as they looked). :)

I really liked 5N5E (although I wasn't quite as fond of the other pool rooms). Rheb, unless they changed it recently, this can be set up so that the roach does its thing automatically without Beethro having to manually block its path every so often.

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05-09-2009 at 09:05 PM
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Tahnan
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
I'll be doing cleanup, i.e. catching whatever lingering problems there are in the areas everyone's already swept through. That's not by design; I just got here late (and am already starting to despair about adder-and-gel puzzles).

Rather than save comments until I catch up, since that may not happen before 2012:

* Goblin Woods 1N1E: The Dupont brother is still there (on re-entrance) after the room is cleared.
* Goblin Woods Sence North: "by brother" should be "my brother".

(Also: once I hit my second Decoy Slider puzzle, I gave in and wrote a program to solve them for me. I don't especially want to post it publicly, but if the authors are curious, they should let me know. Not that it's anything elegant.)


[Last edited by Tahnan at 05-10-2009 09:42 PM]
05-10-2009 at 09:40 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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I've completed Indoors except for five secret rooms in the Bank. I realize I could go get that Jewel now, but I think I'll wait and leave that as my reward for completing everything. There are still all those staircases in previous levels I didn't go down.

Indoors is a huge and varied level, where the inside of each building really does have its own distinctive feel. The bright colors against the black background of the minimap are also evocative of windowshopping in a city at night. There's a wide range in puzzle difficulty here. As others have commented, it's strange to find the easiest puzzle in a hold on its final level. On the other hand, easy rooms, hold art, and the Bar's challenges are exactly what I wanted when taking a break from the tough Pool and Robolab rooms.

Comments on Individual Rooms
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Oh, and I should mention, on my way to Indoors, I found and solved the last secret room in Lava Land.
Click here to view the secret text

I'll look at the changed rooms in the most recent version now, and then go back exploring some of the paths I didn't take.
05-11-2009 at 09:34 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (0)  
quote:
Kallor wrote:
That's what you get when you design a puzzle where "Beethro can't beat this horde of monsters without help". Oh yes he can, he always can. Happened in GW 4n2W, MC 2S1E, 4TAF 1W-4W, and so on...
:lol
(Edit: Fixed. Mailing new version to Zch, probably will be updated later.)
I've solved the new version of Molten Core 2S1E. This time he did need help -
Click here to view the secret text

05-11-2009 at 10:40 AM
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Tahnan
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
quote:
Zch wrote:
About 1N1E:
This is very evil room, but it is possible.

Click here to view the secret text

Apologies if this has been said before, because it's a really long thread to try to catch up on, especially if you're trying to avoid spoilers for rooms you haven't yet solved. But that's not remotely how I did it; I used two mimics and no Beethros.

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05-11-2009 at 11:42 PM
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Kallor
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
Thanks for comments, everyone.

I think bug Tahnan found in Goblin Woods 1N1E can be fixed by replacing the southern door of the stalwart box woth two similar (tar sister gate and an arrow) doors, one space apart.

Also there are the bugs he found earlier, and some new ones:

Goblin Woods 3N1W has a house with wrong floor texture, it should be mosaic floor.
Indoors 1N3W has a character talking about "Goblin City Diner", while the "Goblin City" was long ago renamed "City".

I don't have any time for a week, maybe Zch will update the hold.

- Kallor

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05-12-2009 at 10:04 AM
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Tahnan
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
quote:
Kallor wrote:
Thanks for comments, everyone.

I think bug Tahnan found in Goblin Woods 1N1E can be fixed by replacing the southern door of the stalwart box woth two similar (tar sister gate and an arrow) doors, one space apart.
I think, though I'm not sure, that a mimic could be used to block the second door.

Of course, my other thought is "Aw, do you have to?" I've currently managed to get through half of the (required) rooms in Goblin Woods, some with help and coaching. Admittedly, my progress was slowed by a break to visit the old Complex and to take care of some secret rooms (also no simple matter), but man, this hold is redefining "difficulty 10".

Speaking of those secret rooms:

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05-12-2009 at 09:51 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel Lost (0)  
:thumbsup Conquered, mastered, and postmastered. I've found all the secrets the right way, returned the jewel, and just finished reading through the commentary in the postmastery level. Wow, what a journey! I'm still just sitting here in awe. Thank you so much for this wonderful hold.

I meant to add comments to this post, for the "hidden" levels I found down all the alternate stairs, but doesn't look like that's going to happen right now. Tomorrow. :)
05-13-2009 at 09:23 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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After trekking all the way back to Goblin Woods to explore down the staircases I passed before, I realized that it would have been better for me to go down each one as I got to it, rather than waiting.

Here are comments on the levels I completed after exploring everything properly.

Tunnel Network
It's really cool how each stalwart we meet in Goblin Woods has a route to the place in the hold we see him next. Because I needed to restore to access some secret areas in Underground Lake, I was not able to conquer all the rooms in Tunnel Network in the same savegame. This meant I could never traverse the shortcut through 1E (which makes me a little sad) but I could still access all the rooms in the level. Bombs, eyes, and spiders make an interesting combination for puzzles. Thanks for the vision tokens in the puzzle rooms. If they weren't here, I would have requested tiles on the floor.
Click here to view the secret text

Goblin Woods 6N / Long Path / Voluntary Work
There may be a little glitch here, or possibly a game engine bug. When I first entered Goblin Woods 6N a few weeks back, the door to Goblin Woods 6N1E was closed. When I returned to Goblin Woods 6N, walking all the way back from Indoors, that door was open! I entered Goblin Woods 6N1E even though I had not yet entered the Long Path level. After I returned to 6N from Long Path, the door was still open, and I reentered 6N1E. Then, when I came back to 6N, the door closed. Is that what was supposed to happen?

Going back to review the scene when I entered Goblin Woods 6N the first time was essential to understanding the story when I finally got to Voluntary Work. All these references to Dr. E Will's Mega Complex are fun, as I really enjoyed that hold and still remember much of it even after 2 years. :)

I generally liked the puzzles in Long Path, which show that there are still new things people can do with roaches and roach queens.
Click here to view the secret text

Despair & Depression
Well, I'm glad you only made me do this in one room. As I commented before I would rather see variations of the same size puzzles than larger and larger versions of it. When playing Dr. E Will's Mega Complex, I enjoyed figuring out the solutions to the different variations of the 4x4 lights out puzzle, but resorted to looking up the answers to larger ones. Which is what I did here. Thanks for including the answer in the hold, so I didn't even have to Google it. The best part of this level was the clue on the scroll. ;)

Comments on the remaining levels when I'm done with work today.
05-13-2009 at 10:37 PM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
I can't have her master the hold and not do it myself*, so I've now seen the secret area. The hold art there is nice; the comments were OK, but I think that everything said there has appeared in this thread so it might be more interesting to the actual players. Typos:
2S4E: "aumliches" "negleted"
1S4E: "turnig"
4E: "crackled" "complany"

As for the few remaining secrets (all in Underground Lake):
Click here to view the secret text


*Well, the hold seems to think that I've solved a few secret rooms that I haven't, but who am I to tell it otherwise?

EDIT: I suppose now's the time to upload my final demos file. Maybe there are still some USes hidden in there.

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[Last edited by Dischorran at 07-10-2009 01:26 AM : No more demos here either. Do it the hard way.]
05-14-2009 at 05:14 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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Comments, continued...

Four Times As Fun
I really like this concept, and this is a good level. However, Three Times As Fun in DEWMC was even better, as there, instead of closing off different parts of the room, you used the same room elements in different ways. If you haven't checked it out already, I think you'd also be interested in Jacob's Missing Pieces contest and hold.
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Rorrim Rorrim
Reflection through a 45 degree line is a really clever idea for a level. Not very difficult, but very enjoyable.
Click here to view the secret text

City
I just wanted to mention that this is a nice looking level. The contrast between the populated outer area and the empty inner area is marked. The inner area is more evocative of an aerial view, too far up to see the people. Thank you for putting stairs rather than scripts at the places where I should enter the buildings. Oh, and I didn't test what would happen if I didn't give the oremite repellent to the citizen.

Parallel Dimension
I wish I had started visiting this level when I came to the stairs, instead of waiting until the end. It's cool how the entrance to the Parallel Dimension is recognizable on every level. Sadly, I was not able to permanently open the door to Underground Lake, as I had to restore to get into the secret area there. The postmastery area is beautiful, and it's amazing how many of the comments here are already on the scrolls in that area.
05-14-2009 at 07:51 AM
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Chaco
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File: GJL Underground Lake 1N fail.demo (3 KB)
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (0)  
Alright, I've solved almost all of the rooms in Underground Lake (including some of the secret ones, which were interesting and I recognized some of the puzzles).

The last required room I have left is 1N, and I've seen the most recent version of the room (which has orbs in the middle of the upper passage). I believe I've figured out a lynchpin to saving moves to approach the timer (which is to use the shape of the platforms cleverly) but I'm still around fifteen moves short, as this attached demo shows.

I'm no longer really having fun optimizing the room to this extent, so I'd like to ask for a demo for this room so I can move onwards, as I believe I've shown that I know what the point of this room is and I'm interested in seeing this hot tile and Aumtlich level everyone keeps talking about. :)

Perhaps the creators could change UL 1N in a later version to be more forgiving in some manner, such as moving the tunnels at (18, 29) and (19, 29) closer to the shoreline, or making the walls at (4, 12) and (33, 12) water, so the corners could be cut, or putting tunnels in the upper passage to decrease the number of moves used to go from the sides of the room to the center... anything reasonable that doesn't break the room. I'm mostly saying this because it's easy for me to imagine several other people in my situation, who are stuck on this room mostly because they just can't squeeze out the last bits of optimization, whereas they figured out what strategy would be too slow and what strategy would be fast enough.

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05-15-2009 at 09:12 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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Chaco, I watched your demo for UL 1N, and you haven't found the lynchpin.

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05-15-2009 at 09:26 PM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
My mistake. Obviously the lynchpin was an oblique, subtle, yet important difference that ended up saving about ten moves, which made all the difference and allowed me to finish the room with exactly no moves to spare.

Anyhow, I believe I've found an unintended solution to Lava Land Twice South Twice East: I used the mimic to just kill the rock giant immediately (along with all its pieces), led it out, and used it to trigger the four on-off pressure plates in an appropriate sequence to allow the mud baby to get out, since there wasn't any real timing needed. I can provide a demo if needed, but it should be simple enough to just redesign the mud baby chamber.

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05-16-2009 at 01:58 AM
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Chaco
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File: GJL Lava Land 4S2W fail.demo (3.3 KB)
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
Here's a demo of me attempting to solve Lava Land: 4S2W, and I'm about ten to fifteen moves short.

EDIT:

Dischorran was very helpful in pointing out what the flaw was in this plan. To be helpful to other people who download this demo, there's a significant logical flaw, which if removed, gives plenty of time to solve the room.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 05-16-2009 10:16 PM]
05-16-2009 at 10:09 PM
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Chaco
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File: gjl_lavaland_Chaco.txt (951 bytes)
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
Here's some very brief notes on Lava Land. I'm now working on Molten Core now.

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05-16-2009 at 11:27 PM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (0)  
I happen to be playing through the last tier of rooms, and I'm currently working on Four Times As Fun. I don't really have any comments other than that although the style is a bit different than the earlier Three Times As Fun, I don't particularly mind and think the rooms are clever, sometimes difficult, but sometimes very easy (particularly in any variation with a speed potion).

I'm mostly posting again to ask about Four Times As Fun: Once North Twice West (entering from the rightmost northern entrance), which is currently stomping me. I suppose it's intentional that only the top pressure plate entrance opens the cages since it's the entrance square with the fuse end, but can I get a hint as to how I'm supposed to tackle this one? I last the longest heading East with my sword starting S, but I don't have enough room or time to maneuver around the brained horde.

EDIT:

Alright, I did manage to solve the room, again by trying something I hadn't tried yet. The room is pretty finicky, but I suppose it doesn't need to be changed at all.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 05-18-2009 09:12 PM]
05-18-2009 at 09:09 PM
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Zch
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
Another update...

Modified GW1N1E to prevent US using mimics/beethro to block stalwarts way. The added inclosure
should make it slightly easier to manipulate mimics into required formations.

Also fixed some typos etc.
05-26-2009 at 07:32 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (0)  
Well, I'm not sure if you're looking for any more comments on this hold, but I did check the new version. The intended solution for GW 1N1E still works, but I don't think Tahnan's trick does... so, good job. I wouldn't say the added building makes it any easier, but I did use a smarter arrangement of mimics than before. :)

Dischorran might be interested to know that Lava Land 5S has also been modified slightly. My demo still works, but does his?

If and when you're ready to make an all-out attack on typos and grammar, I'd suggest exporting the hold text and posting it here. It's hard to catch everything that flashes up on the screen when playing through in puzzle-solving mode. For example, there's still a typo in the hold description: "of cource."

Finally, I should let you know that I'm an HA, and have played this hold to give myself a head start towards approval when you eventually submit it. My tools show a few unreferenced image files in your hold. This may mean that your hold file is larger than it needs to be because it contains duplicates of some files. You may want to double check to see if it contains duplicates of:
Click here to view the secret text

05-28-2009 at 11:15 AM
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