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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Gigantic Jewel lost (a sequel to Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex)
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Dischorran
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
quote:
Kallor wrote:
Question: how could you solve a pool room with only two mirrors? Not intentional...
I barricaded myself next to the entrance to the brain enclosure, keeping the roach at the NW corner of the roach enclosure.

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04-24-2009 at 06:55 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+2)  
I think I've just about finished Underground Lake now. I've been trying to visit and solve all the rooms before moving on to the next level.

If Underground Lake has a 7x7 minimap as Goblin Woods did, then there are 4 rooms I can't figure out how to visit. I just wanted to double check that I really can't get there yet, or else I'd like a hint...

? 1S1E
Click here to view the secret text

? 3E, 1S3E, 2S3E
Click here to view the secret text

It's late - detailed comments on the whole level tomorrow. :)
04-29-2009 at 12:30 PM
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Zch
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
quote:
CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
I think I've just about finished Underground Lake now. I've been trying to visit and solve all the rooms before moving on to the next level.

If Underground Lake has a 7x7 minimap as Goblin Woods did, then there are 4 rooms I can't figure out how to visit. I just wanted to double check that I really can't get there yet, or else I'd like a hint...

? 1S1E
Click here to view the secret text

? 3E, 1S3E, 2S3E
Click here to view the secret text

It's late - detailed comments on the whole level tomorrow. :)


Click here to view the secret text


3E, 1S3E, 2S3E:
Click here to view the secret text


1S1E:
Click here to view the secret text

04-29-2009 at 02:23 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
Ah, thanks for the help. It had been so long since I started this level, I totally forgot what happened at the beginning!

Anyway, I've completed the whole Underground Lake level now. As with Goblin Woods, the minimap is absolutley lovely with its whimsical sea creatures and the occasional submarine! The cool blue style fits the theme well. I especially like the walls and the statues. I'll repeat what's been said before about trapdoors and bridges though. I had to look twice to distinguish them by texture, as they have similar colors and similar brightness on my computer screen.

The main feature of this level, the "stalwart run" as we call it in the in-game chat, is well done. The stalwart is the DROD game element that I am least comfortable with, and I learned a lot from solving these puzzles. Especially the series of rooms that involved simultaneously killing pairs of waterskippers - there were enough of those that I could feel my skills gradually improving. The room with guiding the stalwart through a bomb maze, not so much. Very frustrating, as it's a tough example of a tough puzzle type that I don't have much experience with. Since I couldn't just back out of the room and go somewhere else, I took a break from this hold. I'm not sure if I learned anything in that room or finally just got lucky when I came back to it. But then, a few rooms later, I suddenly found
Click here to view the secret text
That was so unexpected and fun, I forgave you for the stalwart bomb maze. Just this once. The puzzles in the secret rooms were a nice contrast to the rest of the level - not too difficult with their own unique flavor.

Comments on individual puzzles:
Click here to view the secret text

On to the next level! I think I'll try going down the stairs after the blue door in the Entrance. :)
04-30-2009 at 10:06 AM
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Rheb
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
I finally got back to playing this hold :)

I have just ran through Lava Land. I haven't tried any of the puzzles yet, but they do look interesting, and the layout is simply awesome!

Here's my comments for the individual rooms in UL:

Click here to view the secret text


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04-30-2009 at 03:51 PM
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Rheb
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Ok, I'm down to two rooms left in LL, It went pretty quickly as I'm quite familiar with this type of giant puzzles. The last rooms however I think I will need a couple of small hints for.

I've really enjoyed the level so far, what marks many of your puzzles, I think, is how rewarding they are to solve once you find the trick.

Comments for the rooms I've solved:

Click here to view the secret text


So, for the rooms I haven't solved so far. In 1S2W I can either get all pressure plates pressed, or save a golem which could get through the mud tunnel, but I can't do both... I thought it might have something to do with the fact that the pp at 33,22 pens one of the higher doors, but I haven't figured out any way to use this.

The other room I still haven't solved is 4S1E, I feel a bit rusty on this decoy sliding thing... I enjoyed the first two rather easy puzzles, but now I really have no idea what I should do...
A good thing with these puzzles is that the difficulty curve seems right, the first one was easy, the second one medium, the one in the secret level hard, and this one's impossible ;)

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05-01-2009 at 07:50 PM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+2)  
quote:
Rheb wrote:
So, for the rooms I haven't solved so far. In 1S2W I can either get all pressure plates pressed, or save a golem which could get through the mud tunnel, but I can't do both... I thought it might have something to do with the fact that the pp at 33,22 pens one of the higher doors, but I haven't figured out any way to use this.

The other room I still haven't solved is 4S1E, I feel a bit rusty on this decoy sliding thing... I enjoyed the first two rather easy puzzles, but now I really have no idea what I should do...

These two were among the last rooms that I solved as well. Hints:
Click here to view the secret text


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05-01-2009 at 08:13 PM
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Rheb
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
quote:
Dischorran wrote:
These two were among the last rooms that I solved as well. Hints:
Click here to view the secret text

What the? That's just mean!

Ok, back to the decoy puzzle then. Thanks for the help! :)

Edit: Ha! I did it. It was your hint to avoid having swords pointing diagonal that did it, so thanks again. :) (4 decoys to spare by the way)

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[Last edited by Rheb at 05-02-2009 09:59 AM]
05-01-2009 at 11:20 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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I'm almost ready to comment on Lava Land too, but having big problems with 5S and 3S3W. I've visited and conquered everything else, except for the 4 secret area rooms in the NE corner.

For 5S, I want to do this:
Click here to view the secret text

05-02-2009 at 12:22 PM
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Kallor
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+2)  
New version coming up. Fixed three unintended solutions in Underground Lake:
Click here to view the secret text

Dischorran, we would like to have your demo of Indoors 3N5E.
Rheb, we would like to have your demo of Lava Land 4S.
CoriousShyRabbit, here is some help for Lava Land 5S:
Click here to view the secret text


- Kallor

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05-02-2009 at 01:54 PM
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Rheb
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File: GJL Lava Land 4S Victory.demo (3.1 KB)
Downloaded 4 times.
License: Public Domain
icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
Here's my demo for 4S.

I'm a bit disturbed by the mudblobs in the lower corners of the connected rooms, 3S and 4S1W. If you exit 4S in the secret way with your sword pointing NW you will be stuck and have to restore back. :(

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05-02-2009 at 02:20 PM
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Rheb
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Ok, I'm mostly through Molten Core now, only 3S1W left. I have no idea what I'm supposed to do in this room. I've tried trapping the aumtlich above the door and I've tried moving up beneath the WW, letting the aumtlich press the pressure plate... but nothing seems to work.

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05-02-2009 at 03:15 PM
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Kallor
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+2)  
Yo!

Lava Land 4S indeed had an unintended solution, which should be fixed now. We also fixed the backtracking issue Rheb found.

Edit:
Also fixed the unintended solution in Indoors 3N5E, no need for the demo anymore. Some hints for Molten Core 3S1W:
Click here to view the secret text


- Kallor



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Kallor

[Last edited by Kallor at 05-02-2009 04:34 PM]
05-02-2009 at 03:42 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
quote:
Kallor wrote:
CoriousShyRabbit, here is some help for Lava Land 5S:
Uh, yeah... your way was a whole lot easier. Thanks! I don't know why I didn't see that last night. Must have been getting late.

I'll have comments for Lava Land as soon as I finish 3S3W, which has been eluding me as well. EDIT: Comments soon.

[Last edited by CuriousShyRabbit at 05-03-2009 01:22 AM]
05-03-2009 at 12:54 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
I've completed everything in Lava Land now, except for the four rooms in the northeast corner, which I don't seem able to access.

Again, the 7x7 minimap is a work of art in itself, which makes simply exploring the level without solving anything fun. The red style fits the rock/lava theme well. I love the varied and irregular pattern for the floor tiles and the rock obstacles that are still molten inside. The walls are a little plain though. The contrast between the bright red force arrows and the floor is great - can't miss 'em. Force arrows on wall or on hot tiles are harder to see.

Similar to the way oremites are used in the Goblin Woods level, I like the way the mud inside the Lava Land walls is sometimes part of the puzzle and sometimes not. Very clever. I was surprised not to find more puzzles in the secret areas. Filling an entire 7x7 minimap is very ambitious, I'm sure it's exhausting, and it's starting to show a little in this level.

Oh, and don't forget checkpoints by all the stairs.

Comments on the individual puzzles:
Click here to view the secret text

Before I use the stairs in 4S1W (checkpoint please!), I'm going to check through the changes in the new version.
05-03-2009 at 03:25 AM
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Rheb
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
I'm through molten core, tunnel network, and some of indoors.

MC wasn't really my level, 1S1W, 2S1W and 3S1E all felt a bit too random. The rooms I did like was 1S1E and 3S1W, both of these rooms had a neat trick, and they weren't too hard to clear once you found the trick, (although I needed a hint for 3S1W). I'm not sure, but I think my way of solving 2S1E was unintended. I just placed the mimic on the checkpoint at 11,11, and then I dealt with the nine aumtlichs. After that the room was surprisingly easy.

In TN the rooms were quite simple, and that's just what I wanted now after completing the molten core. It's good that I can't just pass through the linear corridors of TN every time I enter the level, but are actually forced to solve some puzzles now. Even though the vision token made it quite obvious, I liked 1N. :)

I'll wait until I've solved some more in Indoors before commenting on it. But I've noticed some small problems in the level. I don't really see the point of having arrows in the beginning of 1N5E. The number characters in bank should probably be invulnerable, I happened to stab one when exiting the room, and that looks a bit odd.

I'm not sure, but I think some activity in the inner city would be good too. I know it would be hard to work in with the level layout, but some huts, citizens and maybe guards outside the Bandit Lair and the Bank would make it feel more like a city. (Some people could also be walking in and out from the Goblin City Dinner and Bar.)

Finally, I'm not sure if I missed anything here, but I'd like some instructions for Robolab.

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Voligner is my very own DROD-like game. Please check it out!

[Last edited by Rheb at 05-03-2009 09:15 AM]
05-03-2009 at 09:14 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
I've been checking through the changes in the new version.

Tunnel Network - Thank you for the vision tokens. I'll save comments on this level until I've seen more of it.

Lava Land - Thank you for the checkpoints by the stairs. All my demos from the previous version work, including my US for 4S. See the description in my previous post.

Underground Lake
1W - I've done this properly now.
3S - I think I'm much closer to your intended solution, but not quite there yet. Certainly not trivial any more. I've attached a demo.
1N - I've been trying and trying, and can't move the platforms fast enough in the new version. I need some help with this room please.
05-03-2009 at 09:55 AM
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Kallor
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
Thanks for the feedback again.

I have made the following changes (the new cersion will be uploaded soon):
Click here to view the secret text


Some help:
Click here to view the secret text


-Kallor

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05-03-2009 at 01:13 PM
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Rheb
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Thanks for the help with robolab! I think you ought to include those instructions in the hold.

I got the hang of it pretty quickly, so it's definitely not necessary, but it would make things more simple if you also showed the player what each pressure plate will do. (you could for example place the symbol characters you use (or tokens) on the walls above the pressure plates.

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05-03-2009 at 02:49 PM
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Chaco
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File: GJL Goblin Woods 2N2E hallway failure.demo (3.7 KB)
Downloaded 7 times.
License: Public Domain
icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
Alright, with some help from Dischorran I've solved nearly all the rooms on the Goblin Woods level. (And found the staircase in 6N3E - apparently there are at least five staircases that go to the Parallel Dimension?)

Goblin Woods 2N2E is still bugging me, though. I've gotten to the end of the room (which involves sticking six goblins sequentially into force arrows) and I'm having trouble with actually forcing the goblins into areas.

Attached is my demo of me solving the main part of the room, and then having trouble working with three goblins - the demo has me backing into the hallway with Beethro and putting one goblin on the second force arrow, but then not being able to get both goblins back out of the hallway. I haven't been able to force one of the three goblins onto the force arrow with pushing - that's what I'm trying to do right now.

===

I think I would be able to do the room if there were a force arrow pointing West at (25, 15) - if you guys could include that in the next version, that'd be awesome, since it would then be possible after putting a goblin at (29, 13) to have one goblin trapped on that arrow, two near a decoy, and the fourth in front of Beethro's sword, so he could push that one goblin back out and leave the narrow hallway with two goblins (the arrow and the free one) - and the room would be solvable from there.

Alternatively, making the hallway at (26, 15) wider to 2 square or letting the player back up to (33, 15) would also make that section easier by letting him get rid of one more goblin.

===

I can probably solve the room without any of the changes I'm talking about, as it is currently, but since the rest of the room is so long, most of us have called this one tedious, and the main puzzle is placing all the mimics in the adder area, I think anything that would make this last bit easier would be a good idea.

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Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by Chaco at 05-03-2009 07:29 PM]
05-03-2009 at 07:26 PM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
quote:
Kallor wrote:
Underground Lake 1N:
Click here to view the secret text

My demo of solving this with the wrong pairing of platforms still works in the latest version. I wonder how many other unnoticed USes are hidden in the batch of demos that I posted...

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05-03-2009 at 07:40 PM
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Kallor
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File: GJL Goblin Woods 2N2E Victory.demo (2.1 KB)
Downloaded 8 times.
License: Public Domain
icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
quote:
Chaco wrote:
Goblin Woods 2N2E is still bugging me, though. I've gotten to the end of the room (which involves sticking six goblins sequentially into force arrows) and I'm having trouble with actually forcing the goblins into areas.


You're doing it the wrong way, that's why it's so difficult. What you're asking us to do is basically making your US work, so I don't think we will add those arrows. Here is the demo of me conquering the room. Also, a hint:
Click here to view the secret text


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05-03-2009 at 08:31 PM
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Zch
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (0)  
New version with the fixes Kallor listed earlier is now uploaded.
Had some problems with emails so it took a while. Sorry about that.
05-03-2009 at 08:40 PM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (0)  
quote:
Kallor wrote:
You're doing it the wrong way, that's why it's so difficult. What you're asking us to do is basically making your US work, so I don't think we will add those arrows. Here is the demo of me conquering the room.


Watching this demo, now I just feel really foolish. (You mean that was all I had to do all along?!?)

Well, onto the notorious Underground Lake then, I suppose. Thanks for the help. :)

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by Chaco at 05-03-2009 10:49 PM]
05-03-2009 at 10:47 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (0)  
Here is what I did in Lava Land 4S2W. It wasn't that hard, as it involved movement order due to different spawns.

[Last edited by CuriousShyRabbit at 07-10-2009 01:27 AM : demo removed]
05-04-2009 at 07:24 AM
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Zch
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
quote:
Rheb wrote:
Thanks for the help with robolab! I think you ought to include those instructions in the hold.

I got the hang of it pretty quickly, so it's definitely not necessary, but it would make things more simple if you also showed the player what each pressure plate will do. (you could for example place the symbol characters you use (or tokens) on the walls above the pressure plates.


Hmm... I don't think that I want to put any more instructions to Robolab. Figuring out the system is part of the puzzle. But labels on the buttons would be nice.

Edit: Labels are now added :)

[Last edited by Zch at 05-04-2009 08:01 AM]
05-04-2009 at 07:58 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (0)  
Underground Lake 1S - I've finally done it your way. Thanks for the help. I looked at Dischorran's demo too.
Click here to view the secret text

Looking at the new changes...

Lava Land 1S2W - I'm sorry, I really broke it now. After some more thought, I realized that none of the pressure plates really need to be depressed for more than a turn... if Beethro is standing outside the circle.

Lava Land 4S - Having trouble with the new version of this. Is it supposed to be hard to make the mimic avoid stepping on the arrow turner on its way out of the hot tile-mud area?
05-04-2009 at 12:27 PM
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Zch
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
New version. Fixed some US's and made labels darker in robolab.
05-04-2009 at 04:29 PM
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Zch
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
quote:
CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
Underground Lake 1S - I've finally done it your way. Thanks for the help. I looked at Dischorran's demo too.
Click here to view the secret text

Looking at the new changes...


Changed PL to orbs, so no more cheating :D
quote:

Lava Land 1S2W - I'm sorry, I really broke it now. After some more thought, I realized that none of the pressure plates really need to be depressed for more than a turn... if Beethro is standing outside the circle.


This should also be impossible in the newest version.
quote:

Lava Land 4S - Having trouble with the new version of this. Is it supposed to be hard to make the mimic avoid stepping on the arrow turner on its way out of the hot tile-mud area?


It is supposed to be impossible, except with a very specific trick.
Click here to view the secret text

05-04-2009 at 04:37 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (0)  
Ahhhh! Thanks for the help with Lava Land 4S. I now see the purpose of the mud in the NW corner. Beyond just clearing it to toggle the black doors...

I've looked at the changed rooms in the new version.

Underground Lake 1N - I had to redo this room. But it wasn't too hard now that I know what to do. With orbs instead of pressure plate, I need a specific sword position to hit them while not getting clobbered by oncoming babies.

Lava Land 4S2W - I've done it your way now.

Lava Land 1S2E - Either I'm totally missing something, or you've just made this room impossible. How do I kill the four outer mud babies after placing dead golems on all 16 pressure plates? Screenshot of my predicament attached.
05-06-2009 at 12:30 AM
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