Kalin
Level: Master Delver

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Jacob wrote: NB don't open in regular drod, it will cause crashes.
Illusionist, there's no way to play this in regular drod as the room size is different.

We should fix that somehow. Maybe add something to the version number to distinguish between Classic, Lite, and RPG? Or just change the file extension?

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averagemoe
Level: Smiter

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So... um... when are we going to play the latest version of The Ancient Palace?

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Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
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We need skell to import it into the browser version.

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skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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File: Soon.jpg (37.4 KB)
Downloaded 1006 times.
License: Public Domain

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Kalin
Level: Master Delver

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I realize this is on hold for now, but in case someone decides to work some more on it...

There's a bug with the Ep. 1 achievement "Steady Hands": it gave me the achievement the first time I killed a roach. I was steady in that room, but I hadn't even seen the other 6 rooms involved.

This was the first time playing Ep. 1 in version 1.4.0-JS (Ancient Palace is 98.48% complete).

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skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Okay let's get back to business everyone.

First answer issues raised so far:

Here is my current todo compiled from the forum messages here and more. Numbers ins square bracket are for me. Items starting with ! are ones I plan to do before the next update.

BUGS:
 ! Typos & text updates [001, 002, 007]
 ! Hold total score is off [003]
 ! Hold unconquered itself [003, 005]
 ! Restore screen double tap on touch screens [004]
 ! F2 on Firefox issue [006]
 ! The Ancient Palace has KDDL5 credits
 ! Investigate default battle key woes [009]
 ! Errors in console [010, 011]

Features:
 - Update DROD history section [008]
 ! TAP add achievements (get some of the common ones in)
 - TAP add remaining achievements
 - Save import/export [F001]
 - Use Indexed DB for more persistent save storage
 - Wrap up work on KDDL6
 - Downloadable binary

> There's a bug with the Ep. 1 achievement "Steady Hands": it gave me the achievement the first time I killed a roach. I was steady in that room, but I hadn't even seen the other 6 rooms involved.
There was a pretty funky bug with save system that could've caused internal progress data to be shared/transferred between two different holds if you played them in one session. Or more weird stuff. It should be fixed in the next release.

Some questions:

> Provocative question: Once it's released, will the new holds be added to the Hints & Solutions map selector?
I sure hope so!

> Even more provocative question: will there ever be a hold editor lite?
If there is interest I can release the modified TCB Windows binary that has been used to make all the levels. It requires you to first install TCB demo and then just replace the exe file.

> Opening KDDL hold file in regular drod is dangerous, we should fix it
Not going to happen I am afraid. I do have the modified source code for the TCB-based editor but I am not going through the multi-hour/day pain of making it compile. I'd be more inclined to do the same thing as in SSSSSS levels, where it ignores part of the room. Would be a bit more difficult to work with in DROD. But I'll be frank - the issue is not big enough and is completely external to the game itself. There is also no reason to distribute KDDL hold files beyond sending them to me to be implemented or to others whom you want to playtest it. If you need to attach it to the forum, make sure to change the file extension to something like ".kddl_hold" and it should be fine .

> How long till you lose interest in the project again?

I wish I knew. I think it's close enough to the finish line that I'll manage to get it all done before my attention shifts to, I dunno, DROD Hold Tools or something.

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And that would be all for now, I'll keep you good people updated.

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Dischorran
Level: Smitemaster

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>How hot is skell on a scale of 1 to 10?

9. Really now.

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skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Does anyone have any strong feelings against removing the tutorial levels from KDDL 2+? Now that all the holds are available in a single "game" it makes little sense to have a tutorial which covers things that were already covered in the previous installment that is 3 mouse clicks away.

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averagemoe
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The Committee for Historical Accuracy in Dungeons says keep them. They're redundant, but not broke, so there's no need to fix them.

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Kalin
Level: Master Delver

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Actually, I actively dislike the later tutorials for being unnecessarily tedious. There's a room with a lot of tar to cut, another where you have to kill a serpent with a goblin, and then that horrible room with eyes, goblins, and queens. And it's silly to get half the achievements before you even leave the tutorial.


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disoriented
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averagemoe wrote:
The Committee for Historical Accuracy in Dungeons says keep them. They're redundant, but not broke, so there's no need to fix them.

The CfHAiD is an elected DAA subcommittee and no votes have been taken since there hasn’t been a meeting in years. The organizer is a bit lazy.

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Best to PM me, since I might miss your message on CaravelNet chat.

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[Last edited by disoriented at 03-11-2022 02:48 AM]

averagemoe
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Okay, but there's two different versions of the tutorial, the one without a Negotiator watching you, and the one with a Negotiator. We should somehow preserve them both.

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skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Nope, to the thrash with it!

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Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
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I think I designed my tutorial levels to lead to a secret.
But no huge loss if removed.

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skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Beta 7 is up!

- New Feature: Save import/export tools were added to hold-selection screen
- New Feature: Two sets of keyboard controls can be defined
- Improvement: Saving was reworked. You are likely to lose all your progress so far because of that, but it should fix all of the save-related issues we had so far
- Improvement: Going back to hold selection screen will fade out the music
- Improvement: Pressing F2 to quickly open current room help will no longer cause an exception to be logged in the console; also made it a little more likely the popup will open on its own the first time, but that's squarely in browser's hands
- Improvement: Achievements save has been reduced in size considerably
- Improvement: Redefining keys no longer accepts keys with modifiers (Shift/Control/Alt)
- Improvement: Use Delete or Shift+Escape while redefining a key to remove the currently assigned key
- Improvement (KDDL2-5): Removed tutorial levels
- Improvement (KDDL1): Steady Hand achievement displays rooms where you already did the deed
- Improvement (KDDL5): Added some missing scripting and VA
- Bugfix: Calculating hold percentage should always work correctly
- Bugfix: Game should no longer "forget" hold conquer state at times
- Bugfix: When loading another hold in the same session, the "Decoding" progress will correclty start at 0% rather than 100%
- Bugfix: Crossfading music will no longer cause the music to stop at times
- Bugfix (KDDL1): Fixed "Steady Hand" achievement being awarded too soon
- Texts (EN): Reworked the DROD History section to be more succinct and include TSS
- Texts (EN): Removed references to 3 undos

Notes:
- "=" remains as the default battle key, so that the non-numpad "+" can be used for that; Numpad + is added in the second variant.
- There are some text-related issues in TAP - they'll be resolved later, when the texts are moved from the hold to a translatable text file. One bug was reported around that which causes logs to appear in the console, that's also going to be fixed then.

What's next:
I believe the project is getting dangerously close to done. There are still a few small usability things I'd like to add (like navigating restore screen's minimap with arrow keys), and KDDL6 needs to be finished.

The project will be open sourced once it's released to the public fully.

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Rabscuttle
Level: Smitemaster

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Playing through L17, the music seems to change styles a lot when cutting tar. Not sure if this is something that always happens (normally have music off in heavy drod) or if I'm just always at a number of monsters close to where it goes from puzzle to combat.

Jacob
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Sorry skell.
Looks like I forgot to make the new secret rooms secret. Instead they are required. This makes (at least) the tutorial level and level 1 unplayable.

Also looks like I have not yet made a secret room for level 2, while the other levels have them.

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[Last edited by Jacob at 03-14-2022 02:41 PM]

averagemoe
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Jacob wrote:
Also looks like I have not yet made a secret room for level 2, while the other levels have them.

By level 2, do you mean "Inside the Palace?" because that secret room is at.

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Jacob
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I meant the Underground Lake.

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Jacob
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File: Skells The Ancient Palace.hold (21.4 KB)
Downloaded 53 times.
License: Public Domain

Updated hold file with some (not great) secret rooms.


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ngene
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 15
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I'm playing on firefox. When clicking "Start New Game" in KDDL4, regardless if I played the game before or not, I'm taken to Original Level Thirteen: Entrance instead of the actual level thirteen entrance! This is pretty funny but also annoying because I get softlocked (you can access the Mastery Level from there, but since the mastery door is locked it's impossible to actually go back to Level Fourteen - and of course the real level thirteen is completely unreachable).

The good news is that I found where the bug actually is using Firefox Dev tools and manually fixed it for myself. Clicking "Start New Game" invokes TStateGame.startHold(), which in turn uses Level.getFirstHoldEntrance() to find the first entrance.
getFirstHoldEntrance() looks for an entrance marked with IsMainEntrance, like this:

return UtilsXPath.getAnyElement('//Entrances[@IsMainEntrance=1]', Level.hold);

... which is a problem because there are several entrances marked IsMain, and the behavior of getAnyElement is unpredictable! It works as expected only if the first level also appears first in the hold file. In this case, Original Level Thirteen appeared first in the hold file before the other "proper" levels which led to it being selected.

The easy fix would be to change the hold file to put Real Level Thirteen first (at least I THINK it would fix it), but to avoid similar problems in the future the actual first level of a hold needs to be uniquely marked somehow.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and for the great game!

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[Last edited by ngene at 12-31-2022 01:46 PM]

Jordthro
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 101
Registered: 07-22-2012
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I'm having trouble accessing the beta and even the alpha's. I'm getting 404 errors on everything. Is the problem on my end or have the files been moved or changed?

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skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Jordthro wrote:
I'm having trouble accessing the beta and even the alpha's. I'm getting 404 errors on everything. Is the problem on my end or have the files been moved or changed?

Thanks for pointing it out, should be working now.

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Jordthro
Level: Master Delver

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Thanks, Skell! I really appreciate it.

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