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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Feature Requests : Orbs toogle force arrows on/off
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13th Slayer
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icon Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (+1)  
Well,we have rotators,dont we?
11-11-2007 at 04:07 PM
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Kwakstur
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icon Re: Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (0)  
To show you a little flaw with it, think of this:

We can place a Light fixture and then an open yellow door under it. If you link an orb to the square with both the light and the door, only the light will toggle. That's perfectly okay; if you want to be able to toggle the door, just link the orb to a tile without a Light. And if the door is only 1x1 (meaning you can't toggle the door at all), well then that's stupid, because the Light is an obstacle to all, so the door's state doesn't matter anyways in that case.

But I can see many applications of an arrow on a 1x1 door. Unfortunately, you wouldn't be able to toggle the door.

In other words, no because it conflicts.

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[Last edited by Kwakstur at 11-11-2007 11:11 PM]
11-11-2007 at 11:10 PM
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Kevin_P86
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icon Re: Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (+1)  
Serious? You're dismissing the idea just because the UI isn't already set up to support it?

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11-12-2007 at 09:42 AM
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schep
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icon Re: Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (+1)  
The game implementation has the same problem, that orbs currently point at coordinates, not objects on a specific layer. But that just means it's harder to implement, not that it's not a good idea.

But UI issues do figure into how good an idea it is. So I'd agree; the UI issues for the editor and in-game orb-clicking would need good answers first.
11-12-2007 at 05:43 PM
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Sillyman
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icon Re: Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (0)  
Simple solution to the force arrow on 1 by 1 door problem: Door takes priority. ;)

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11-12-2007 at 06:24 PM
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Syntax
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icon Re: Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (0)  
Sillyman wrote:
Simple solution to the force arrow on 1 by 1 door problem: Door takes priority. ;)
Or all layers are triggered. Could make some interesting door vs toggleable force arrow puzzles...
11-13-2007 at 12:28 AM
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Jatopian
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icon Re: Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (0)  
Syntax wrote:
Or all layers are triggered. Could make some interesting door vs toggleable force arrow puzzles...
Backward compatibility would present a problem.

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11-13-2007 at 12:40 AM
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Syntax
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icon Re: Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (0)  
I didn't realise there had ever been 2 toggleable objects via the same orb on different layers sharing the same coordinates before...
11-13-2007 at 12:44 AM
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Ravon
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icon Re: Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (+1)  
I think what's being referred to is that if there is a room with an arrow on top of a door, and an orb targets that specific square, causing the orb to toggle the arrow as well could grossly change the room. If doors take priority over arrows, this is not a problem.
11-13-2007 at 12:59 AM
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NoahT
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icon Re: Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (+1)  
Just for reference, the reason why this issue doesn't exist in Wonderquest is because it doesn't allow doors and arrows on the same tile. Nevertheless, the concept of switching arrows on and off has shown its potential in Wonderquest, and I think it could definitely work in DROD (it isn't too unique of a feature of Wonderquest that it would mean too many similarities between the games, compared to some of Wonderquest's other features). One question-should inactive arrows be affected by rotators?

-Noah

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[Last edited by NoahT at 11-13-2007 07:38 PM]
11-13-2007 at 05:46 AM
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Kwakstur
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icon Re: Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (0)  
I would say yes. Using orbs and a token together to allow an arrow to turn 360 degrees is interesting, but will break more potential puzzles than it will create.

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[Last edited by Kwakstur at 11-13-2007 06:00 AM]
11-13-2007 at 06:00 AM
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zonhin
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icon Re: Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (+1)  
Due to the UI and backwards compatibility issues mentioned, I think that this would best be executed via token.

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11-13-2007 at 06:03 AM
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Ravon
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icon Re: Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (0)  
That is a very elegant way of implementing this.
11-13-2007 at 07:25 AM
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Briareos
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icon Re: Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (0)  
So how are disabled arrows shown? Simply hiding them completely doesn't seem right, considering the motto of not hiding information from the player. Transparency might not work too well either when there's already arrow/floor combinations where arrows are hard to make out.

And I guess this would also mean that it'd have to be possible to place disabled arrows that can be activated in the editor.

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11-13-2007 at 08:29 AM
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zonhin
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icon Re: Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (0)  
A different color would work great for distinguishing activated and unactivated arrows.

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11-13-2007 at 08:52 AM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (0)  
I suppose I'd better bring this up before anyone else does, but using a different color won't work so well for colorblind players. Also, it requires people to remember which color is "on" and which color is "off".

Possibly some sort of texture or style change for the arrows would work better.

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11-13-2007 at 11:04 AM
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zonhin
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icon Re: Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (0)  
When I say color, I dont mean like red to green.
I mean something closer to going from white to black.

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[Last edited by zonhin at 11-13-2007 11:23 AM]
11-13-2007 at 11:22 AM
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zex20913
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icon Re: Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (0)  
I forget if there's a style where arrows aren't filled in...but maybe disabled arrows could just be outlines, while enabled arrows are...filled in.

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11-13-2007 at 11:44 AM
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mrimer
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icon Re: Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (0)  
In case anyone doesn't realize this [edit: or I haven't read the thread completely], Wonderquest has this feature implemented. Why not see how this issue is dealt with in its level editor?

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[Last edited by mrimer at 11-13-2007 06:27 PM]
11-13-2007 at 05:01 PM
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TFMurphy
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icon Re: Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (+1)  
Noah already covered that, Mike. Arrows and Doors aren't allowed on the same tile in Wonderquest.
11-13-2007 at 06:25 PM
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coppro
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icon Re: Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (0)  
zex20913 wrote:
I forget if there's a style where arrows aren't filled in...but maybe disabled arrows could just be outlines, while enabled arrows are...filled in.
Sanctum 2 and Volcano do IIRC, as does at least one of the styles I've started (too lazy to see if there's more that do).
11-14-2007 at 04:47 AM
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13th Slayer
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icon Re: Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (0)  
Maybe DROD should bring up a window in which player could select what the orb must affect?

[Last edited by 13th Slayer at 11-14-2007 08:29 AM]
11-14-2007 at 08:27 AM
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13th Slayer
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icon Re: Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (0)  
Briareos wrote:
So how are disabled arrows shown? Simply hiding them completely doesn't seem right, considering the motto of not hiding information from the player. Transparency might not work too well either when there's already arrow/floor combinations where arrows are hard to make out.

And I guess this would also mean that it'd have to be possible to place disabled arrows that can be activated in the editor.
Maybe they shall be difrent colored?
11-14-2007 at 08:28 AM
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13th Slayer
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icon Re: Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (0)  
mrimer wrote:
In case anyone doesn't realize this [edit: or I haven't read the thread completely], Wonderquest has this feature implemented. Why not see how this issue is dealt with in its level editor?
Wonderquest? You want to say that i stole the idea?
11-14-2007 at 08:31 AM
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Anson
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icon Re: Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (-1)  
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11-14-2007 at 09:32 AM
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Moo
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icon Re: Orbs toogle force arrows on/off (+1)  
All these threads about toggling arrows with orbs etc. can be closed, as this can be done in 5.0.
07-22-2014 at 01:38 PM
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