RuAdam
Level: Master Delver
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File: Under the Mountains V16.hold (96.2 KB)
Downloaded 70 times.
License: Public Domain

I finally decided to take action and ask for help, or else I'll never be able to finish this hold. It's been more than a year since I started it, and compared to that fact, I haven't been able to finish much. I ran out of ideas and motivation too quickly, but I don't want to end the hold yet, because I think it's too short. (like the first one) I'm not getting anywhere with it, thats why I ask for help.

I would like to ask for help in beta testing. Although I would like to add some more puzzles, there are a lot of them already compleat. (well at least as much in the first one) If I can't come up with anything else I'll finish the hold with what I have. I'll be using a private beta board for testing, so CaravelNet is required.

The story will be the continuation of my first hold, and although it's not yet implemented, I'll definitly need some help with it. Either for the story itself, or at least with the grammar.

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[Last edited by RuAdam at 09-21-2008 05:34 PM]

sam3212
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RuAdam wrote:
I finally decided to take action and ask for help, or else I'll never be able to finish this hold. It's been more than a year since I started it, and compared to that fact, I haven't been able to finish much. I ran out of ideas and motivation too quickly, but I don't want to end the hold yet, because I think it's too short. (like the first one) I'm not getting anywhere with it, thats why I ask for help.

I would like to ask for help in beta testing. Although I would like to add some more puzzles, there are a lot of them already compleat. (well at least as much in the first one) If I can't come up with anything else I'll finish the hold with what I have. I'll be using a private beta board for testing, so CaravelNet is required.

The story will be the continuation of my first hold, and although it's not yet implemented, I'll definitly need some help with it. Either for the story itself, or at least with the grammar.

i mite able able to help in a few day with scripting the story

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RuAdam
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I'm still looking for beta testers. If anyone would help me out in testing, post here or send me a PM and I'll invite you.

RuAdam
Level: Master Delver
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Okay this didn't go too well. I only managed to get one beta tester, and he went on a holiday. Am I doing something wrong?
Would a public beta testing be more succesfull?

Edit: I Attached the hold to my first post. Please test it and tell me what do you think.

larrymurk
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I just solved the 1st two rooms of Underground Path also. They seem ok.

Can you post a demo for UP:2E please?

RuAdam
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File: UtM UP 2E.rar (2.4 KB)
Downloaded 49 times.
License: Public Domain

I'm glad you liked the orb puzzles. I know they aren't a favorite so I tried not to overdo it.

You can't solve 2E in the first go. You'll have to face the problem from a different angle.

larrymurk
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RuAdam,

thx for the help on room 2E.

The Underground Path

Entr & 1E- OK orb puzzles.
2E- OK trap door puzzle. Maybe the extra red door and the fact I had to re-enter 1E should've been clues as to what had to be done here, but thx for your help.
4E- ok rush hour puzzle.
1N1E- Good. I liked this limited movement mimic puzzle.
1N3E- I think I'll skip this puzzle.
1N4E- One rush hour puzzle was enough for me.
2N3E- Good, I liked this fegundo puzzle. Why the red door? It's nice to be able to step on the save point as needed and very annoying to solve the room just to find out the anti-red door up is in the way for no reason.

Overall comments.
You put some save pts in nice spots, but I think more would be nice.
For the most part the types of puzzles you chose were very risky- orbs, trap doors, and puzzles from elsewhere. I'd say they all 'worked' pretty well though. I'm always afraid of puzzles being converted to DROD (e.g. Lights Out might be fun when pressing buttons to easily toggle lights but running to an orb with Beethro can get quite tedious), but the ones I solved here seemed all right.

All in all, I'd say this level is very well done. Nice job!

RuAdam
Level: Master Delver
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Thanks for the comments, I'm glad you liked the puzzles. The first level has been the most worked on, I'm more worried about the second level. The reason for these types of puzzles is that I just can't come up with DROD-like puzzles.

About the checkpoints. I'll remove the restriction in the fegundo puzzle so you can save while solving the puzzle, you'r right that it's a bit forced. In general I usually put a checkpoint at the beggining of the puzzles, but I don't allow saving while solving, to discourage brute force approach. But it's true that there are puzzles where it's easy to mess up accidently. For exapmle at the fegundo puzzle I got myself in situations where an undo whould not save me quite a few times, even though I know the solution. So I'll try to be more generous with checkpoints in the future.

larrymurk
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Training Grounds

1S1E- going to be a puzzle some day?
1S2E- Unsolved. It might look nicer removing the eastern orb and use red doors instead for the final doors?
1S3E- I knew the final trip would hit the snake 5 times. I sent the snake through and hit it a couple times then calculated how many more hits I needed to leave it so it would still require 5. Note that I only sent the snake through about 3 times since one can activate multiple pps each pass.
1E- Very interesting room w/ aumtliches. Unsolved.
3E- Ok fegundo puzzle.
4E- Slayers. Looks neat. Unsolved.
1N1E- Hmm, another architect has the exact same puzzle in their hold that I'm testing. You might want to discuss w/ them what is best. Entropy by Dischorran.
1N2E-I got everything in position except the eye was in the center. Argh!
1N3E- I like this type of room!

RuAdam
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Thanks again for the comments.

1S1E - why, did you find it too easy? (uhm yes, puzzle to be)
1S2E - good idea, changed
1S3E - unintended solutin, thx for finding it, fixed, hopefully
1N1E - I had the idea on my own, Klotski is a well know puzzle, but actually I don't really like that rom anyway. If I can find a replacement puzzle I'll change it.
1N2E - keep trying
1N3E - I was pretty sure you would

New version up in first post. Fixed the things I mentioned here and from TUP 2N3E (the fegundo puzzle). Also added a new level with six puzzles.

Tahnan
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Will look at grammar, if not gameplay. (Have downloaded; will likely not get to it until tomorrow.)

Dischorran
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RuAdam wrote:
1N1E - I had the idea on my own, Klotski is a well know puzzle, but actually I don't really like that rom anyway. If I can find a replacement puzzle I'll change it.

Whoops! I can confirm that it's a well-known puzzle that we both used independently. I'm currently using it as a secret room in a hold without a theme of "traditional puzzles"; if you're having trouble finding an alternative sliding block puzzle, I'll pull it from mine, but I do plan on submitting my hold soon.

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Chaco
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I've played most of the first level and so far the hold mostly looks good. I've got two other things to add to what people have already said:

The Underground Path 1N1E - could you add some more checkpoints to this maze? It's frustrating to have to go all the way back to the start if you choose just one wrong branch.

The Underground Path 1N3E - Well, even with that extra pressure-plated path that closes the door under the scroll, I couldn't solve this room, even knowing what the end state and penultimate-state needed to be. I'd consider making this a secret room or moving it to a later level, since I think a lot of other people like me could get hung up on it.

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Tim
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I think you can safely drop the larger part of Eternal Stairway. I think Chaco (or someone else) did that one before.

As for the current state of your hold, I think the first level is better than the rest of the hold. The first level is more polished, the puzzle quality is a lot higher than the rest, and there is more story.

To be frank, I'm not sure how much more time you want to spend on it, but if I was a ruthless architect, I'd probably remove all the other levels.

Your first level alone is already a worthy succesor of your first hold.

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[Last edited by Tim at 08-02-2008 02:35 AM]

Chaco
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I just noticed Eternal Stairway in the editor.

Tim is correct, I converted the Small Fractal Maze into DROD a while ago, although I didn't publish that hold on the Holds board, electing instead to leave the hold in Architecture.

(The maze is actually really tedious to solve in DROD, although I imagine less so than on paper or in one's mind)

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[Last edited by Chaco at 08-02-2008 02:29 AM]

Tim
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As for Klotski: You mean this hold?

This thread has one too.

CuriousShyRabbit
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I don't see a problem with using the same classic puzzle in different holds, as long as the architects implement the puzzle in different ways.

Tim
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CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
I don't see a problem with using the same classic puzzle in different holds, as long as the architects implement the puzzle in different ways.

Well, the problem with Klotski is that I've solved it many times already. It's just tedious.

However, this particular implementaion is very well done, as you can solve the room without getting the 2x2 down. A 1x1 platform is enough to solve this room (Unintended solution alert!).

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RuAdam
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Wow, That's a lot of replies, thanks again. Now lets see...

Dischorran you can keep the Klotski puzzle if you'd like. I'v replaced mine with a different puzzle. Also Tim, thanks for noticing the ui, but it's irrelevant now.

TUP 1N1E - Well I can't place checkpoints inside the maze, as that would give away the solution. I could place a checkpoint in the middle of the path you can move on, would that be fine?

TUP 1N3E - Yes it seems it doesen't really fit with the difficulty of the rest of the level. I might be able to switch it with a puzzle I made for a later level, witch I think is much more easier.

ES - The larger part is not playable, it's a secret, and just for show. The smaller part also has a neet (at least I think so) system that shows you where you are, that makes navigating easier.

Well the first level is really old, so I had the most time to work on that. And I plan to spend as much time on finishing this hold as needed. I'm not a rutheless architect, so I don't really want to throw out any of the puzzles or levels, unless really necessary. Also don't judge by the ammount of story jet, as I didn't have time to work on it. Most of the level entrance descriptions are also just temporary. But anyways I'm glad you liked the first level that much, and if some later puzzle or level proves to be unsavable, I know what must be done. But I'd really like to see the story of my first hold finished if possible, thats why I wouldn't like to remove levels.

I'm currently wotking on the next big update. It'll have all the levels and puzzles I planned, except for the bonus level for mastering the hold. (it might look like the newer levels are just quickly thrown togeather, but the truth is that they have been also laying around for quite a long time either in the testing level or in my head) I hope that none of the puzzles will turn out so bad that I'll need to remove it. So I hope that after adding story and some polishing, and checking grammer, and some more polishing, the hold will be mostly done.

Hikari
Level: Smiter

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Long post alert!

A sequel to The Sunken Pyramid? Sweet.

Warp Room: Interesting, having the third floor blocked off. Strange thing to block off...


Underground Path: Spelling and grammar on the opening screen needs some touching up. I'd suggest the following for the second paragraph:

-So. The empire has found an artifact, which is a source of limitless power. But, they haven't yet learned how to use it. I must make sure it stays that way. Or else... Who knows what might happen? I may even lose my job. Besides, my delver's instinct tells me that I don't need to worry about monsters for a while. It's just a simple matter of getting from here to there... wherever 'there' is. And of course, I still have that goblin to catch.

Entrance: A pleasant orb puzzle to start off with. Took a few moments' thought to figure it out. Nice warm-up. Might want to put a comma after 'Damzit' in the goblin's comment. Also, lose the apostrophe in 'its' on the scroll.

1E: Took a moment to figure this one out, as well... A bit of poking at the orbs, then noticing that there was a second way out of the room, solved it for me. Certainly took a little thinking outside the box there.

2E: Stared at it for a few moments, traced lines with my finger, and figured it out. A pretty neat puzzle, though. Took some thought about how to clear all the trapdoors. Also, I like how there's two different puzzles (and therefore two solutions) in order to progress through the hold. That was a nice touch, and not something I think I've ever seen done with trapdoors before.

3E: Guard's second line has 'you're' misspelled.

1N2E: No puzzle. Hmm. Is there going to be one here later?

1N1E: That was a pleasant challenge. Took a lot more thought than anything else I'd met so far, and certainly made for a welcome change from the two orb puzzles and the trapdoor puzzle.

1N3E: I had heard this one referred to as the 'Capital Is of Death' before meeting it, and see why, upon entering the room. Those... are a lot of Capital Is. The use of pressure plates and stalwarts to prevent breaking of the maze's rules is inspired, to say the least. It took several tries and a lot of thought to reach the pressure plate... and the return trip was actually harder, until I decided to go ahead and use the path that blocked me from getting to the scroll. Kudos on this one... but is it actually possible to reach the scroll?

2N3E: OK, this one took a few goes to get it right. Figuring out the right path was an interesting exercise, but I managed in less time than the Capital Is of Death took. Good puzzle, and a fun use for a Fegundo.

3E revisited: I thought this was what I saw over there... Elegant way of dealing with the need to make the player go around.

1S3E: I do hope there's going to be a puzzle here, because this is... anticlimactic for a secret room.

4E: A lot of inelegance in this puzzle; it's possible to get stranded without being able to move back to other platforms if you move things right... and it's actually required if you want to use what is the most efficient solution to the puzzle in any other setting I've done Rush Hour in. Not entirely sure how to avoid that... Maybe a border of floor tiles around the outside that can be stepped on but that don't allow access to the eye? I don't see it being possible anywhere *but* the edges to get stuck, and the eye is far enough out to the side that flooring around the outside would make this a lot less fiddley to solve. A good attempt, though, and only that getting-stranded issue is really a problem.

1S4E: Some typoes in the text here. Citizen's first line should say 'stairway' instead of 'sairway'. Also, in Beethro's response to the question of recruit-ness, a comma probably ought to go after the 'Yes'.


Training Grounds: If I was writing this little floor blurb, I'd probably put 'That went well... Maybe *too* well.', but that's a matter of taste, I think.

Entrance: Writing's all good, spelling/grammar-wise here. It doesn't *look* possible to get into the oremite-infested corridors in 1S as far as I can tell, so the scripting is solid there. I do hope I'll be getting in there later, though.

1S1E: Oh, this *can't* be right. Please tell me this will be filled in with something more substantial...

1S2E: Oh, *this* one is nasty. It took a lot of poking before I could work out exactly why I kept getting into no-solution points... It suddenly got a lot more interesting once I saw what I was doing wrong.

2E: Yay, placeholder text.

1N1E: Uh, yeah. This one's a little broken. Solvable with a 1x1 platform isn't good. I'm not sure how you can fix that one, though. At least this doesn't have the issue of getting stranded that I found in the Rush Hour puzzle.

1E: This... is painful. I can't for the life of me figure out how I'm supposed to get to either pressure plate, just yet... Though I did at least manage to figure out how to get some of the aumtliches stuck facing diagonally, which got me a start. As I don't use the editor to test rooms (If a player can't do that when it's officially released, I see no reason I should do it when testing), I *will* need to solve this if I want to go on in the hold. So, um... a hint, perhaps?


That's all for tonight; I'll continue on this when I play more later, after sleep and work and other real-life responsibilities (and after I work out how to solve 1E, with or without hints).

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[Last edited by Hikari at 08-02-2008 11:15 AM]

RuAdam
Level: Master Delver
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No kidding, that's one long post.

Warp Room - Third floor is not finished in current version, will be in the next one.

Underground Path

1N2E - Sorry, but no, it's just to make the level feel more natural.

1N3E - 'Capital Is of Death', wow that's a great name, where did you heard it reffeared as that? Also about the scroll. You wrote that you don't test holds in the editor, so you don't know, but that scroll basicly says that you found a solution I didn't. I don't know if it's possible, but I put it in just in case someone manages the solve it that way, so I can arrange for some revards. (like a secret room)

1S3E - No puzzles, but you'll be able to evesdrop on some people secretly plotting secret things, or something like that.

4E - I also got stranded quite a few times, I never thought of an outer border, but good idea. I'll put it in the next version.

Training Grounds

Entrance description is only temporary, as I didn't have time to think about it yet.

1S - Don't worry, you'll be getting here in the next version.

1S1E - Already filled up in the next version.

1N1E - Changed to a different puzzle in the next version.

1E - Okay here are some hints:




Thanks for all the feedback.

Hikari
Level: Smiter

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Re: Capital 'I's of Death: I can't remember for sure who it was that called it that, perhaps CSR might know, but part of me wants to say it was someone whose name started with T... Probably either TFMurphy or Tahnan. I could be wrong, though.

On the subject of later versions and such... When's the next version coming out? (and when it does, please include a changelog so we know which rooms need re-testings and which don't)

Now, back to the betatesting...

Training Grounds:

1E: A lot of head-wall-banging and some hints from TFMurphy later (though yours helped as well), and I solved it... This is an evil, evil room. And absolutely brilliant. I don't know how much I'll ever use this trick again, but it's incredibly useful to know, at least.

1N3E: Agh, this makes me imagine what I might expect to see whenever Larry does a 'Crazy Rooms with Mirrors' hold, or something. Again, evil evil room... With a deceptively simple solution. Kudos on this one, too.

1N2E: Interesting puzzle, a little bit fiddley on the scripting when wanting to rotate the same quarter more than once in the same direction but I'm not sure how to fix that. Pleasant after the previous room, certainly.

1S3E: Hmmm. I can tell that the last pass is going to hit the snake five times. As the snake has 11 hits it can withstand, that means I need to tag it 6 times in the first four rounds. Clearly, I have to be very careful about what I do here. Hitting the 5 or 4 at the start *will* result in a dead snake. Likewise, the 2 and 1 can't be the last ones struck. The 5 can't be the last, as using the 1-4 as the first four will *always* result in five strikes, leaving me after the final round with a three-tile-long rattler. Realizing that the solution called, not only for six strikes in the first four rounds, but for five in the first three, helped me work out how to make use of the 5 plate, and from there, the solution fell into place. Good thinking exercise, though.

3E: An interesting puzzle, certainly. It took a little bit for me to notice that the door was opening so I could go get at the oremites, but once I did, this became slightly easier. It was certainly an interesting exercise figuring out how to blow up the fegundoes at the right times, but I did manage it.

2E, et al: Odd... Solved all the rooms I think I can see, and the floor's not registering as completed. Weird. I'll poke more tomorrow after work and see why.

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[Last edited by Hikari at 08-03-2008 09:04 AM]

Chaco
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I'd like to point out that in the current version, Once South is marked as a required room, when it might work better as an unrequired room.

(Unfortunately this means you'll have to restore back to start, visit that room, then re-solve all the rooms in Training Grounds, since you can't backtrack to the Entrance from Once East.)

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RuAdam
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Thanks for the replies. Chaco is right abot 2E, but the third level would come after that, witch is missing from that version. That reminds me, new version is up, here's the changelog:

- TUP 1N3E - Capital 'I's of Death puzzle has been moved to a later level, and has been replaced with a friendlier one.

- TUP 4E - Added border as suggested.

- TG 1N1E - Klotski puzzle replaced.

- TG 1S1E - Puzzle added

- TG - You can now exit the level as intended

- Third level added

(Fourth level is the ES)

- Fifth level fixed up a bit. (It was also in the previous version, but has not been tested yet because of the missing third level) This is where the Capital 'I's of Death puzzle has been moved to.

- Short final levels added, no puzzles there, they are for story purposes, althoug no story yet.

Hikari
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Thanks muchly for the changelog; that makes me more able to make sure I check all the rooms that got updated.

Warp Room: Hmm, more floors this time. Good.

TUP: Also good to see that you used my re-grammared text here. Grammar is always good.

1N1E: I'm going to agree with the prior comments on this, and say 'needs more checkpoints'. I think one in the middle of the passage Beethro can move in would be best, but a semi-random peppering of them in the maze itself could be good, too.

1N3E: A very, very good maze. A couple of sneaky tricks in there that took me a little while to work out, and I had to sole it initially on paper, but so very much fun. I liked this a lot.

4E: Yup, that worked *much* better... Am I correct in assuming that there's no way to get to 4E1N? Or am I missing something possibly obvious?


Training Grounds:

1S1E: That is a puzzle I never thought I'd see implemented in DROD... Then again, I never really thought too hard about how the scripting capabilities work. In any case, a pleasant little maze, certainly. Enjoyed this one a lot.

1S2E: An idea that might make this one a touch easier to control... perhaps extend the floor bits that show what each switch is going to effect so that they hit the tiles directly north and south of each switch? One has to look *really* carefully to tell the differences between some of those.

1N1E: Ah, the 1 2 3 4 5 maze... It's been a while since I saw this one, and I had to get a little fiddley with it to find the solution, a lot of trial and error, though I at least remembered how to get at the end. Always pleasant to find that people have taken puzzles I know and translated them into DROD.

Not a whole lot of progress, just checking over the new rooms... I'll start on Guards Quarters after I sleep.

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Tahnan
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File: ruadam.txt (2.1 KB)
Downloaded 57 times.
License: Public Domain

OK, some belated comments. These are from the previous version, so some rooms may have changed, but it should be possible to tell what goes where.

First, proofreading comments attached in a text file, mostly of the form "x" to "y", shorthand for "change 'x' to 'y'".

Platform locks, aka Capital Is of Death: I had a really hard time visualizing things here, especially the concept of "middle lanes". I wonder whether something might be done to highlight those lanes--grass or mosaic floor in the square on either side of the pit, for instance. (Also: perhaps a swordlessness token at the entrance, just to ensure that no one kills a stalwart accidentally? Not a big deal, just a thought.)

TG, 1N2E: the monsters respond a little slowly to a "double spin", i.e. moving onto, off of, and back onto a plate.

TG, 1S3E: it might be nice to explain what the plates do. I mean, sure, you can click and find out, but why not explain them?

TG, 1S2E: the "mosaic" floor is, irritatingly, different depending on which square it's on. I wonder if it wouldn't be better to just use an image floor and have the four squares be different colors. (Also, it might be nice to expand the floor vertically from the orb; sometimes I had to squint to figure out whether the floor under the orb was sand or dirt. Or whatever it was.)

Road of Trials, 1E: it's possible to throw things out of sync by standing on a plate. That is, there's a difference between the following, from the checkpoint:

1. E, E, E (plate 1), S, N (plate 1 again), E, E (plate 2), S, N (plate 2 again), S
2. E, E, E (plate 1), wait, E, E (plate 2), wait, S

In the latter case, the two snakes affected by both plates (the SE and S snake) are shorted a move.

Finally, for completeness, the rooms I couldn't solve:



Sorry if any of this is out of date. I'll do another proofreading pass after these've been fixed, so I'm not going over already-corrected things.

RuAdam
Level: Master Delver
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Thanks for the replies. I uploded a new version with small changes and fixes.

TUP 1N1E - Checkpoint added in the middle of the road.

TUP 4E1N - Yup you sure are missing something. (Hint: no scripting involved)

TG 1S2E - Replaced the orbs with pressure plates, placed them more part, and made the 8 surrounding tiles of the appropriate color. I hope it's more visible witch plate does what.

TG 1N2E - That can't be helped, you have to wait at least 3 turns I think beore you can make another rotation.

TG 1S3E - I added pressure plates witch toggel lights, does that help?

RoT 1E - You'r right. I placed the pressure plates a bit more apart. I don't think it's possible to de-sync now.

And thanks for the proofreading, I fixed the spelling mistakes in this version.

Oh, one more thing. I played through the entire hold till the last level, so it should be compleatable.

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[Last edited by RuAdam at 08-04-2008 11:57 AM]

TFMurphy
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Finished a complete playthrough of the current version. Obviously, got stuck at Research Labs - so can't continue further. Also, you forgot to unmark the removed TUP secret room as secret, so the Master Wall can never drop. Not that either of these matter just yet, of course.

Personally, I tend to prefer more checkpoints than less, but you've already stated that you're deliberately cutting down on those. However, I will note that it's quite easy to have checkpoints in a puzzle space without spoiling the solution: you just need to place them in a pattern unrelated to the correct path.

Anyways, just going to mention specific rooms only.

The Underground Passage: Nothing to add about this level - the puzzles seem to work fine.


Training Grounds:
1E and 4E are more "DROD-like" in puzzle style, so lack of checkpoints really hurt here.

1N2E *can* be fixed such that the pressure plates work every two turns, but it'll take a bit of script rewriting. I note that you currently have "Move to (x,y)", "Face direction" and "Go to Label" as your moving script, and "Wait 1 Turn" as your waiting script. If you replace your moving script with "Move to (x,y)", "Go to Label", and then replace your waiting script with "Disappear", "Face direction", "Appear", "Wait 0 Turns", it should work.

The trick is that moving is going to take 2 turns no matter what's doing it, so it's the Face Direction that's holding things up. If you go to the Label first, then we can skip the Face Direction phase if the player is still on the plate. Otherwise, we Face the correct Direction all the time. Normally, Face Direction ends the turn and thus screws things up, but Face Direction while you're not visible doesn't take a turn. (Appear still takes a turn, but it continues to run code until it hits something else that takes a turn - Face Direction while visible just stops execution dead.)

Anyways, with those changes, it'll only take 2 turns before they're ready to move again, and if they don't move, they'll face the proper direction on the 3rd turn.

EDIT: And while I'm looking at things in a bit more detail... it's nice that all the guards in the Entrance are replaced by citizens when TG is complete, but considering they're without swords, it makes the sparring look a bit strange, and the roach evasion is dead wrong. Not really all that important, but just something I noticed while testing some of the scripting.


Infested Mines: Took me a while to understand what I was looking at, and was mainly solved by trial and error once I'd gotten a few absolute priorities down. That is, I figured out what I needed to do first, and then just played from there. The gates seem to work really well - couldn't find any easy way to break them.


Eternal Stairway: Reasonably straightforward, and the symbol table worked very well. I liked the secret too.


Road of Trials: Again, the puzzles here seemed to work pretty well with a minimum of problems.

Two things about 6E. First, I solved this in the original version you had up - you were wondering about the scroll? After solving it, I wrote a small state traversal program to map it - assuming there aren't any extra bugs in it that I didn't find, it's indeed impossible to solve the puzzle without locking off the scroll.

Secondly, your changes here have broken the puzzle a little - trapdoors don't fall if you don't have a sword. You may have to rely on pressure plates instead.

===

Anyways, that's about it, I think. If you need more information on getting TG:1N2E scripting running, I'll be happy to be more explicit there. Looking forward to the end.

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[Last edited by TFMurphy at 08-05-2008 04:04 AM]

Hikari
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 438
Registered: 01-28-2006
IP: Logged

Woooo, doing it again! Let's see how far I can get this time...

TUP 1N4E: Woo, harder rush-hour puzzle than 4E. Cool. :3 Glad to see you already applied the border around the outside this time.

TG 1S2E: Oh, that looks much nicer.

TG 1S3E: As does that.


Guards Quarters: I'd add an apostrophe in the floor name here. Guards' Quarters.

1S2E: Same as above, in the script to go with the sign.


Road of Trials:

7E: Wha....? Not the Entrance?

6E: Oh, hello there again, Capital 'I's of Death. You ought to find out for sure who the one who came up with that name is, and credit them (TFMurphy, actually. )... The no-sword token is a definite advance in the design here... up until noticing that a swordless Beethro doesn't trigger the trapdoors. I'm not sure if that's a good or a bad change in the design.

5E: That... was a fun puzzle. Seems to work fine, and the controls seem logical.

4E: Challenging! But fun! Though, the scroll talking about the mimic turning is a little bit misleading. Perhaps saying 'change direction' instead of 'turn' would be better?

3E: For a moment, I thought I'd seen this one in Sunken Pyramid... but that was until hitting the scroll. I was thinking of the right-turn-only maze. Clearly not the same, and definitely a lot of fun.

2E: Uh... What's up with that hot tile on the first puzzle? There's a space that can't be stood on there. Is that supposed to be there? I have a suspicion that by making that space not-stand-on-able, it breaks the puzzle, maybe. It certainly doesn't follow the rules properly, and as the only way I can see to get the roach stopped somewhere I can get to the door from, I have to step on that tile, well... Obviously, I can't check the second half of the room because the first half seems impossible. Are you *sure* you checked this properly?

1E: That was pretty neat. Can't say I expected to ever play a *four-state* Lights Out... Though I will say that it's less interesting without being able to press buttons that light up.

Entrance: Denied! I can't get through without solving 2E. Are you *absolutely* sure that 2E works, as-is?

2E again: A flash of inspiration revealed a way to solve the first half... But even so, that hot tile is suspicious. Seriously, what is up with that? I'll do the second half when I get home from work and keep going.


____________________________
Caravel Official Holds Progress:

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[Last edited by Hikari at 08-04-2008 10:18 PM]

TFMurphy
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3118
Registered: 06-11-2007
IP: Logged

Hikari wrote:
Road of Trials:

7E: Wha....? Not the Entrance?

You went the wrong way. Once all required rooms in Training Ground are finished, Training Grounds:2E is locked, and you can't access that stairway. You're meant to head west to the oremite section, which opens at that point. (Note: This is done via scripting, and I'm not sure how much of it was in place before the update. It *was* possible to get to the guards in 2E during the previous version, and therefore reach the checkpoints there as well, but this is no longer the case in the new version... at least not until you complete the Road of Trials)

Hikari wrote:
3E: For a moment, I thought I'd seen this one in Sunken Pyramid... but that was until hitting the scroll. I was thinking of the right-turn-only maze. Clearly not the same, and definitely a lot of fun. :D

No, there was a Tilt Maze in The Sunken Pyramid too: 6th Floor. It worked in exactly the same way too, although it *was* a different maze. The Right-Turn Only Maze was on 7th Floor.

Hikari wrote:
2E: Uh... What's up with that hot tile on the first puzzle? There's a space that can't be stood on there. Is that supposed to be there? I have a suspicion that by making that space not-stand-on-able, it breaks the puzzle, maybe. It certainly doesn't follow the rules properly, and as the only way I can see to get the roach stopped somewhere I can get to the door from, I have to step on that tile, well... Obviously, I can't check the second half of the room because the first half seems impossible. Are you *sure* you checked this properly?

The 1st Maze is solvable. The hot tile's there to block the slightly trivial solution of trapping the roach in the northern section while you dart around the south. So you *have* to approach the end from the north.

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[Last edited by TFMurphy at 08-05-2008 12:25 AM]