Jatopian
Level: Smitemaster
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I have been experimenting with player roles in a room I designed for that purpose. Based on observation of the corresponding monster elements and consideration of puzzle potential, I have formulated these requests:

Tarstuff babies shouldn't die on hot tiles.
Fliers shouldn't trigger pressure plates.
Potions should be usable by all, not just Beethro. Clones & decoys shouldn't change with player role, mimics should.
The player should be attacked by stalwarts before striking a foe, if in a monster role.
Non-human player roles shouldn't be able to walk on tunnels until power token use.

Aumtlich - shouldn't turn w/o user hitting rotation key, should have beam, beam should freeze any hostile entity, beam should only work after hitting power token or striking (except on stalwarts)
Decoy - should only attract monsters within 5 squares, should light fuses w/o power token
Fegundo - should use the same explosion criteria as the monster, shouldn't attack like wraithwing
Mimic - shouldn't attract monsters even after striking or power token, should light fuses w/o power token, should drop trapdoors
Rock golem - shouldn't be vulnerable to monsters' bodies
Roach queen - shouldn't be deadly
Seep - shouldn't survive in air, should die when a door beneath them is opened
Waterskipper - should be able to jump at adjacent monsters even if they're on land
Wubba - shouldn't be vulnerable to monsters or weapons
Brain, Waterskipper nest, Young Halph should be removed, as they are partly or completely dysfunctional.

I know of two published holds which would be broken by these changes: The Mining Business & The Forbidden Fortress. Both of these can be fixed by changing the player roles in the appropriate parts to one of the other several roles which attack without sword.
I realize that with the 3.1 patch coming out these might not be implementable immediately, but there could be a notification post as with all other behavior changes.

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 04-24-2008 01:16 AM]

zex20913
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Somebody made a hold once that showed that a roach queen is actually deadly. They just have to be forced to attack.

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Kwakstur
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Fliers do not activate pressure plates.

What version are you using?

EDIT: No wait, they do. But according to the topic in the bugs board . . .
If somebody there is suggesting that Wraithwings be able to activate PPs after a power token, then that must mean they don't do so now.

I have to stop making a fool of myself and start TESTING BEFORE ASSERTING.

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[Last edited by Kwakstur at 08-13-2007 02:07 AM]

vittro
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I totally concur.

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Beef Row
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zex20913 wrote:
Somebody made a hold once that showed that a roach queen is actually deadly. They just have to be forced to attack.

Do you know where to find it? I can't even imagine what to search for on this one...

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Briareos
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Beef Row wrote:

zex20913 wrote:
Somebody made a hold once that showed that a roach queen is actually deadly. They just have to be forced to attack.

Do you know where to find it? I can't even imagine what to search for on this one...

Hello.

(I searched this very forum for "queen"... )

np: Fennesz / Sakamoto - Aware (Cendre)

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Jatopian
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Hmm. If that's intentional, I would retract my request that the roach queen role not be deadly... there's no icon by the topic so I guess they missed it.

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Banjooie
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Fegundos can attack without exploding.

If they run into Beethro, they'll rend and tear him instead of exploding.

Someone Else
Level: Smitemaster

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If you want to change something, you should edit your first post (for easier reading)

Jatopian
Level: Smitemaster
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Banjooie wrote:
Fegundos can attack without exploding.

If they run into Beethro, they'll rend and tear him instead of exploding.

Yeah, I always did wonder why the protagonist was somehow different from every other flesh&blood entity in that respect, but I can only chalk it up to inconsistency. But nothing would change behaviorally if they changed that death graphic, and the relevant point is that there's far more puzzles possible if we have a proper fegundo instead of a wraithwing with new graphics. And besides, it's just right that player role X should have the abilities of an X.

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 08-15-2007 12:56 AM : + "behaviorally"]

Jacob
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Am also in favour of these requests.

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TFMurphy
Level: Smitemaster
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Jatopian wrote:
Tarstuff babies shouldn't die on hot tiles.
Fliers shouldn't trigger pressure plates.

Already done in 3.1.

Jatopian wrote:
Potions should be usable by all, not just Beethro. Clones & decoys shouldn't change with player role, mimics should.

Numerous things. First off, most potions are usable by all, so long as a Power Token has been activated. You can argue whether humanoid roles should be able to use the basics like tunnels, potions and so on off the bat though. Otherwise, some roles can't even *walk* on potions before then (which is why they can be used as shields against monsters of that role). Only Mimic and Decoy potions are unavailable to non-Beethro roles, but it could be argued that this is an unnecessary restriction.

Secondly, I don't see why Clones shouldn't change with player roles while Mimics should. Thirdly, Mimics changing with player role actually hurts puzzle potential: as Chaco said last time this was brought up, a Mimic grants a swordless role the availability of a sword. And no, the same isn't really available through scripting: monster movement order makes sure of that.

Jatopian wrote:
The player should be attacked by stalwarts before striking a foe, if in a monster role.

Not sure how I feel about this suggestion. I'd be happier with it if it were a scripting option for the room, so that more control over Stalwarts and their reactions were possible.

Jatopian wrote:
Non-human player roles shouldn't be able to walk on tunnels until power token use.

Just about all monsters can already walk on tunnels *IF* they're attacking an enemy. It's not the case that they can't: it's the case that they don't want to.

The rest of the suggestions I either don't have a comment for or wouldn't mind seeing them: Player Role is a powerful tool, and more distinction could definitely be interesting.

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[Last edited by TFMurphy at 08-14-2007 06:39 PM]

Jatopian
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I've changed my initial post a bit based on yours.

TFMurphy wrote:
You can argue whether humanoid roles should be able to use the basics like tunnels, potions and so on off the bat though.

My personal explanation is that stalwarts don't really understand tunnels or fear them, and the others didn't because the Empire had strict rules about them.

Secondly, I don't see why Clones shouldn't change with player roles while Mimics should. Thirdly, Mimics changing with player role actually hurts puzzle potential: as Chaco said last time this was brought up, a Mimic grants a swordless role the availability of a sword. And no, the same isn't really available through scripting: monster movement order makes sure of that.

I considered this, and two things influenced my opinion: First, that a clone is supposedly a perfect imitation of the original (except for indwelling consciousness) and thus couldn't morph since the original couldn't; Second, that unchanging clones allow one to use multiple player roles at once, in a fashion, giving puzzle potential.
However, the sword point is a good one (heh, sword point). Maybe two kinds of mimic? I dunno.

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cheese obsessive
Level: Master Delver

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You got most of the ones I'd have a use for.

But also,
Seeps should die when a door under it is closed.
Roach Queens should lay eggs.
Wubbas shouldn't be stab-able.

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[Last edited by cheese obsessive at 04-24-2008 12:28 AM]

skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Ping. Take a look at these suggestions skell, see which one will break previous holds and which can be added for 5.0.2.

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