Tombot
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I tried searching for regenerating walls and found no results so if it has been suggested I'm sorry.

The dungeon bramble is just like a crumbly wall only it grows back after a certain amount of turns, namely the amount of turns it takes for living tar to grow or a queen roach to lay eggs.

Even after it is cut it leaves a visible tile of where it has been planted like a flowerbed or somthing.

(note that it does not expand from where it is planted like the living tar it just grows backs to where it has been planted and that's as far as it goes.

It cannot grow in a square if you stand upon it during the growing turn.

I think that guards and anything else with a protruding blade can cut through it (yes, including Beethro).

I'm sure this has potential for certain puzzles given the chance.

And that’s all.

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larrymurk
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Fun idea.

I assume the new lava beetle would burn right through the bramble also..

Insane
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Why not do it like this?
Place some orbs in an unreachable place.

Have an npc wait for Beethro/Guard/whatever at the certain square, and if seen, open the door, then do "Wait 30 turns", and strike the closing orb.

Maybe have a seperate opener for every door, and a closer that closes all doors every 30 turns.
Or have a seperate opener and closer.
Or something.

-Insane

BDR
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I believe somebody said something similar recently: Just because you can come up with a scripted equivalent of a suggestion doesn't mean it's unnecessary. I'm sure I could, if I wanted to, had the drive, and the basic script knowledge, crank out a similar script to the one the normal dungeon roach uses; does that mean I should reinvent the wheel every time I want a simple enemy that goes directly for Beethro?

I like this idea; it seems like it'd make for some cool puzzles.

Insane
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File: Regenerating doors.hold (1.7 KB)
Downloaded 53 times.
License: Public Domain

I guess BDR is right. I still made an example hold on how to do it.
But loads can be done with script, it would be nice to have this as an extra feature.
Oh yeah, include the fact that the clock goes if there wouldn't normally be one with this variant.

-Insane

EDIT: Shame on me! I forgot to attach the hold.

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[Last edited by Insane at 03-23-2007 08:35 PM]

Syntax
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BDR wrote:
I believe somebody said something similar recently: Just because you can come up with a scripted equivalent of a suggestion doesn't mean it's unnecessary. I'm sure I could, if I wanted to, had the drive, and the basic script knowledge, crank out a similar script to the one the normal dungeon roach uses; does that mean I should reinvent the wheel every time I want a simple enemy that goes directly for Beethro?

I like this idea; it seems like it'd make for some cool puzzles.

I second that. This does sound like a great idea and I can see lots of puzzle potential.

Tombot
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Insane wrote:
I guess BDR is right. I still made an example hold on how to do it.
But loads can be done with script, it would be nice to have this as an extra feature.
Oh yeah, include the fact that the clock goes if there wouldn't normally be one with this variant.

-Insane

EDIT: Shame on me! I forgot to attach the hold.

Take for granted here that the gates react to proximity to Beethro and not whether the sword is touching it or not thus making irrelevant the context of these gates in comparison to my suggested feature. In addition the required presence of the roach queen makes a rather inconvenient timer in the context of gameplay as well as the gates inability to be individual squares thus not acting officially like crumbly walls so there.

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Insane
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Tombot wrote:

Insane wrote:
I guess BDR is right. I still made an example hold on how to do it.
But loads can be done with script, it would be nice to have this as an extra feature.
Oh yeah, include the fact that the clock goes if there wouldn't normally be one with this variant.

-Insane

EDIT: Shame on me! I forgot to attach the hold.

Take for granted here that the gates react to proximity to Beethro and not whether the sword is touching it or not thus making irrelevant the context of these gates in comparison to my suggested feature. In addition the required presence of the roach queen makes a rather inconvenient timer in the context of gameplay as well as the gates inability to be individual squares thus not acting officially like crumbly walls so there.

I agree.
My solution is (is the right word "trivial"?), although it can be emulated with 2 tiles and about quadruple times the code I used (for ensuring the sword actually hits the target).

-Insane

Jatopian
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It sounds good.
Perhaps we could have a salt potion that can prevent things from growing (bramble, tarstuff, roaches) and kills slug-like monsters such as seep.

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Someone Else
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It has been suggested, but I can't search very well, so I don't have a link.

AlefBet
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BDR wrote:
I like this idea; it seems like it'd make for some cool puzzles.

Really? I think it's an interesting suggestion and I kind of like it on one or two levels, but I personally don't see much in the way of new puzzle possibilities. I'm not saying that I can always see puzzle potential when it's there, but it would be helpful for me if someone could post an outline of two or three nice puzzles that this would enable.

I believe somebody said something similar recently: Just because you can come up with a scripted equivalent of a suggestion doesn't mean it's unnecessary.

I agree that useful puzzle components can and should be implemented as their own element. It standardizes the look of the element and makes it clearer how they will behave in a room at a glance. (One exception: I really like simulacrums and wish we could give them their own element. Unfortunately, scripting is necessary for defining their path, so it would be pointless to give them their own element. Too bad .)

However, if something can be done with scripting, a small hold prototyping some good puzzles based on it is quite compelling for motivation of the element.

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Insane
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Someone Else wrote:
It has been suggested, but I can't search very well, so I don't have a link.

You mean the salt potion?
Perhaps this?

-Insane

EDIT: Or a slight variant.

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[Last edited by Insane at 03-23-2007 10:32 PM]

Someone Else
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No, I mean the regenerating wall.

coppro
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AlefBet wrote:
I really like simulacrums and wish we could give them their own element. Unfortunately, scripting is necessary for defining their path, so it would be pointless to give them their own element. Too bad

Well, it could be done otherwise with a waypoint system in the editor, which would be cool because then you might be able to get some nice things going. But otherwise, I agree. Giving them their own element isn't nessecary.

Tombot
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Puzzles involving seeps, puzzles involving slayers, puzzles involving snakes and puzzles involving halph.

Such ideas may include herding roach queens into the recently cleared out bramble patch to restrict movement and egg laying.

Beethro might have to be in one area and halph might need to open a door in the other, also not forgetting the fact that halph does not have a sword may stir things up.

Trapdoors + bramble may make things interesting as far as luring monsters go and so on.

If you put your mind to it there are lots of uses the bramble, equal to or more than there are crumbly walls infact.

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starwed
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I think regenerating every 5 turns might make for more interesting puzzles. (Or perhaps, having a "bramble mother" which sped up the growth to every 5 turns.)

Tombot
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If thats the case then maybe different kinds of bushes could have different colored berries?

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AlefBet
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Tombot wrote:
Puzzles involving seeps, puzzles involving slayers, puzzles involving snakes and puzzles involving halph. . . .

These are interesting puzzle classes, but I don't see actual interesting specific puzzles in them needing this element. Maybe I'm not creative enough, but everything I can think of can be done pretty similarly with regular crumbly walls, tar, or doors.

Again, I don't say that I can think of everything, but I'm not making this particular leap somehow.

Such ideas may include herding roach queens into the recently cleared out bramble patch to restrict movement and egg laying.

This looks to me like it can be done pretty similarly with doors.

Beethro might have to be in one area and halph might need to open a door in the other, also not forgetting the fact that halph does not have a sword may stir things up.

Everything I can think of here is still doable with straight up doors, and perhaps with bombs and fuses to trip orbs. Maybe I just don't see where you're going with it.

Trapdoors + bramble may make things interesting as far as luring monsters go and so on.

Maybe. I'm not seeing this one, though.

If you put your mind to it there are lots of uses the bramble, equal to or more than there are crumbly walls infact.

I can probably be swayed, but I think I need you to connect the dots for me.

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Elfstone
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I like the idea of a growing plant, particularly a fruiting one (and this is nothing to do with my happy childhood memories of picking wild brambles on sunny Autumn days!). Doors and walls are straight - brambles would grow in all sorts of directions with curving branches.

The fruit has potential too - if for no other reason than being an alternative to leaf- juice (and probably much more palatable - may late father's bramble port was delicious and more-ish and strong and . . . well let's just leave it at that ). If, rather than a juicy fruit, we had the "bramble" produce a dryish fruit with spores, we could have the fruits explode when ripe, spreading their spores over some pre-determined radius (in much the way of a bomb explosion) and the effect of it on anything within reach could be temporary paralysis, or temporary intoxication inducing rotation either on the spot, or around 4 squares if there is space.
Lots of possibilities in this one.

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Sillyman
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I am the one that suggested that the mirror be done with scripting. However, that is a different scenario as the additional script command had more uses than the element, and the script was simple. This, however, takes much more work to script, requires the clock, and doesn't suggest any new commands which can do more. I say this be implemented. Eventually. Keep in mind that nothing here will most likely be in the initial release TCB unless they thought of it already, and will instead be introduced in a patch, with maybe a SS to go with it.

Okay, the inordinately long block of text is over. You can breathe now.

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Tombot
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The dungeon bramble


An isolated dungeon bramble plant, note the fruited protruding spikes.

Created initially by a botanist under commission from a unknown Flower obsessive architect by combining a rare kind of pineapple-like plant and a lofty citrus tree, the Dungeon Bramble is 100% chance of growing anywhere if planted correctly.

Even under the most ravenous environments the Bramble can simply take the nutrients from its own berries and regrow almost instantly; however the bramble is designed to only grow where potted to avoid taking over dungeons with sharp fruity wrath.

Interestingly: although the plants the bramble was crossbred with were poisoness, the berries are actually edible and are occasionally used to make fine whiskeys, juice drinks and preserves. Irritatingly, the best specimens of Bramble berries are only found in dungeons where they are often given roach fertilizer by the roaches that decide to feed off them, it is common for smitemasters to be given extra fee if they gather some berries for the person responsible for commissioning (though most say this is not part of their contract and point-blank refuse to do it).

Smitemasters somtimes emerge smelling very strongly of the berries after emerging from a dungeon or a hold containing them and somtimes get mauled by small animals because of it, this is why dungeon entrances are often surrounded by the slain bodies of small birds if the dungeon contains Dungeon bramble.

Dungeon bramble berries resemble citrous tomatoes and taste like somthing along those lines too.

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zonhin
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Elfstone wrote:
If, rather than a juicy fruit, we had the "bramble" produce a dryish fruit with spores, we could have the fruits explode when ripe, spreading their spores over some pre-determined radius (in much the way of a bomb explosion) and the effect of it on anything within reach could be temporary paralysis, or temporary intoxication inducing rotation either on the spot, or around 4 squares if there is space.
Lots of possibilities in this one.

They'd probably explode over a 5 square radius every 30 turns, and I'd think that after 10 turns of the spores just floating, the plant will sprout, growing. Seems like a good idea, and it'll give a nice, organic, touch to a typical hold.

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---

[Last edited by zonhin at 03-25-2007 11:44 PM]

Chaco
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zonhin wrote:
it'll give a nice, organic, touch to a typical hold.

What, and plant obstacles don't do this already?

I think I prefer the original idea of a crumbly wall that regenerates after five turns to all this crazy exploding berries stuff.

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zonhin
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I guess, but I just liked the idea. I don't really have an argument to what you say.

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coppro
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Tombot wrote:
<snip>

Where are the presents?

Sillyman
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Chaco wrote:
I think I prefer the original idea of a crumbly wall that regenerates after five turns to all this crazy exploding berries stuff.

You mean every spawn cycle.

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Tombot
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coppro wrote:

Tombot wrote:
<snip>

Where are the presents?

What?

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Briareos
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Tombot wrote:

coppro wrote:
Where are the presents?

What?

I guess he meant that with all the blinkenlightsfruits hanging on the bramble it looks like a christmas tree...

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[Last edited by Briareos at 03-26-2007 09:13 AM]

Tombot
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I suppose it could be used for an eigth version of Crimbo if people wanted but those are almost certainly berries. (I knew I should have made them purple)

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Elfstone
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Tombot wrote:
I suppose it could be used for an eigth version of Crimbo if people wanted but those are almost certainly berries. (I knew I should have made them purple)

I like this idea Tombot. I don't think you need to think of the berries being a colour recognisable to us - The Eighth has it's own distintive flora and fauna. Personally I think a vivd light turquoise would be good. As for citrous/tomato . . . hmmm, tomatoes are very acidic anyway; add citric acid from lemons/limes/oranges and you would end up with something fairly powerful - for stripping wall paper!! Certainly such a berry as you suggest would be of limited value in terms of producing drinks. The juice itself might be drinkable, but as far as I know, nobody ever makes a brew from anything that acid; orange wine? tomato beer?

If you want a berry that people are willing to pay delvers to pick may I suggest that it is something very palatable - a delicacy, which is fairly inaccessible and consequently highly prized, very expensive and with a ceratin 'snob value' if I can put it that way. Think "pudding caviar" and you'll have the idea.

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