Jeff_Ray...
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Ok, so recently, people seem to be affected and thinking i never finish what i start. But it's my way to be, so just leave me alone. That is mostly directed to Banjooie.

Thanks for reading,

Jeff_ray===

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Chaco
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You mean, you're constantly in a state of never finishing anything? Good heavens! It's a wonder you even managed to

a) make a full AE hold
b) make five levels of JtRH puzzles
c) participate in 2 contests

In other words, yeah, sure you never ever do anything you say you will, but that just means you do things when we don't expect you to.

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Jeff_Ray...
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What do you mean by a full AE hold? Other than Powerstation, which isn't complete, there's no complete hold in AE that have ever been released.

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Chaco
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Eh, I meant Sudoken's Dungeon. Or had you forgotten? I'm assuming you meant "I haven't released a full AE hold" since there are, like, a lot of released holds built in the Architect's Edition.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 10-22-2006 09:43 PM]

Jeff_Ray...
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Sudoken is in JtRH, and it never got out of the testing board.

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[Last edited by Jeff_Ray... at 10-22-2006 09:45 PM]

Chaco
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Hmm, the Architecture Index board said AE. Oh well.

Still, though. The fact remains that it must have taken *some* level of motivation to make that many rooms.

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Jeff_Ray...
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My biggest hold published in public is 8 levels long.

My biggest hold published in private is Jeffrey's hold with currently 36 complete levels, but STILL... i never finish any of these.

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Banjooie
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On any other forum, I would be ripping into you like a bear does into a baby made entirely out of a picnic basket WHICH IN TURN is made out of solid honey. I'm sure that's still effective and highly likely.

HERE, it seems, well. People aren't so fond of that chicanery, so I'm going to try to do this nicely. I'm not very good at that, so bear with ---so do try to understand.

I am going to point out whenever you do something ungodly irritating whenever you do things that are ungodly irritating.

This is because I could just mod you down into oblivion every time you do that. Seriously, I hoard my point mod points like people hoard babies made entirely out of pic- SOMETHING VERY HOARDABLE INDEED. This, however, while entertaining, doesn't actually get the point across to you.

You have potential, see, to be someone who doesn't do things that make people grit their teeth and wail and let slip dogs of war. In fact, Pritanus's hold was pretty good, and you've done some good stuff in contests, etc. If you didn't have potential to be awesome, I wouldn't be mocking you because it's not new and funny anymore to pick on you. Much like Neather2 isn't hilarious because he's actually a pretty good guy even though I'm relatively sure he's typing in Italian and just pasting us the Babelfish translation. From what I've understood, he totally knows what he's on about.

You could respond with something about flies and vinegar, but there are a lot of people on this forum who are dousing with the honey, and you don't seem to be going for that either, so I'm giving it a shot, primarily in this one dream of yours that seems to have failed crushingly.

Y'see, even though you didn't make your 60 level hold, you did get somewhere with it. There was potential, even though your aims were hilariously overblown.

The Level Marketing thing I am going to pick on because it is one of those things that sounds reasonable in theory, but is pretty ludicrous in practice. Kinda like a club where you only have deaf people cause you only need flashing lights, and you'd save money on music.

Why? Because you have this potential to do pretty awesome things, and be a worthwhile contri--hell, you've TECHNICALLY done more than I have. Until I finish a hold 4 REALZ someday, which will probably be the day after you die of old age. I am aware of the hypocrisy in hold releasing here. (I'm totally using Duplicity rooms for delicious recycling purposes, I swear, people.)

Anyway, you do all these things, and then you bring up one of your most ridiculous failures for round two. I don't know entirely how to describe this to you. It's like watching a guy who tries to build a boat out of granite, stops, completely reinvents architecture using his knowledge of granite, and that done, goes back to trying to build his boat!

What's more, this time, people believed you this time. And not only do you let them down, again...but now you've got a system going where people are working on each other's holds! You have almost a fully fledged company of people who aren't producing anything!

I have to say something! Or else I will CRY. TEARS OF BLOOD.

I am basically trying to get you to do things differently, Jeff, because you're /worth trying to get to do things differently/.

Tim
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Banjooie wrote:
And not only do you let them down, again...but now you've got a system going where people are working on each other's holds! You have almost a fully fledged company of people who aren't producing anything!

Hey Banjo, I have the feeling that you don't like people who do nothing... Well, that's life. Many companies exist in this world that produces nothing, and still got rich.

And Jeff is probably very cute too. But I don't think you should expect a cute little kid to be able to churn out great holds every minute. And if he doesn't live up to the expectations, well, Jeff, you're still welcome here to play some forum games or making thread about how terrible you think you are... (Edit: by the way, you are not that terrible. That's not true. Get that out of your mind.)

-- Tim (rubs Jeff's head and says he's cute )

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[Last edited by Tim at 10-22-2006 11:03 PM]

Banjooie
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Gah, I'm not saying churn out great holds every minute, though that is a way I suppose you could read what I've said if you don't like reading things correctly or something.

I'm saying 'I am going to point things out whenever you keep doing them in an effort to prevent you from doing it'.

The thing in this case being repeatedly going 'GUYS I'M MAKING LEVELS OKAY' and then not doing it.

There is a difference!

Jeff_Ray...
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And then you go back to the topic's subject, Banjooie.

If i want to be like this, i will be.

Tim: You're right... i can't make good things every minute.

Chaco: Yes, i do rather great things for my age, like you say...

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[Last edited by Jeff_Ray... at 10-22-2006 11:24 PM]

Banjooie
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And I'm giving you reason to want to do otherwise. The system functions.

Tim
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Banjooie wrote:
The thing in this case being repeatedly going 'GUYS I'M MAKING LEVELS OKAY' and then not doing it.

There is a difference!

I know what you are saying, and perhaps my English was really that bad, but I was supporting you

But honestly, did you really believed what a 11(?) year old kid says? Especially when he's got so many issues about himself?

Besides, it was a "level request" and "marketing" thread, which means that you will only see marketing and (perhaps) level requests there. Not actual holds.

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Krissan
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Why do people announce to friends and family right away that they are going to quit smoking/drinking/whatever?



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Niccus
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I think I have just about the same problem with finishing things, but it's slowly getting better. The number of unfinished StarCraft projects I have is rather embarassing.

Just be happy you haven't left a trail of unfinished projects spanning multiple games, hmmkay?
...and don't advertise so much. Be more subtle, like me! Who is as subtle as a 70-year old giant sequoia in the middle of a prairie but, beyond that, is pretty "subtle".

tokyokid
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Jeff, it's people like you who make the fourms... well ...more interesting. But, keep going Jeff! If you take all of the rooms you've ever made and mush them into one big hold, then Ameph will lose his record...

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[Last edited by tokyokid at 10-23-2006 12:56 AM]

Banjooie
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Tim wrote:
But honestly, did you really believed what a 11(?) year old kid says? Especially when he's got so many issues about himself?

I was getting told to shut up when I was his age, rollin' on the mean streets of the intarweb!

And of course I don't buy it, but other people might!

Jeff_Ray...
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Banjooie: What do you mean by buy it?

tokyokid: thanks for this message! i'll try not to give up.

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geomatrx
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I really hope I finish Echoes this year now.
Believe you me I want it so bad!


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Jatopian
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Niccus wrote:
Just be happy you haven't left a trail of unfinished projects spanning multiple games, hmmkay?

Just make sure that I haven't beta-tested any of these unfinished projects. I am the sworn mortal enemy of those who waste large quantities of my time, which is why the DMV branch in my city mysteriously exploded a few days after I got my driver's license.
Note to authorities: This post is facetious.

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UrAvgAzn
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Tim wrote:
-- Tim (rubs Jeff's head and says he's cute )

Thats going in the DROD.net memoir .
Yeah, Jeff was complaining to me this morning that he had a few holds ready and that he didn't want to release them because no one trusts him when he says 'I HAVE LEVEL, TEST THEM'. I just said that hes gotta be a tad bit more patient. That would do us all good.

Keep posting,

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NiroZ
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Jeff Ray.
I understand why you made this topic, but if this should happen in the future, can you please deal with the problem in the same thread/PM the relevant people?
The reason why I ask is because by posting in the anything board, you're drawing people into this discussion which have no real idea of exactly what went on, and quite possibly exaggerating the size of the problem/issue.

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[Last edited by NiroZ at 10-26-2006 05:16 AM : sense me make no]

agaricus5
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And, to throw one more point in (sorry about this), to summarise the main point that has been put forward...

Jeff (and anyone else with a similar problem, for that matter),

Depending on who you are, it's not necessarily a failure to fail to complete a project with no time limit, like a hold. Bavato's Dungeon was nowhere nearly on time (I wanted to release it quite a few months earlier), and Golbar's Caves might end up being a TCB hold at the rate progress is going.

What is a problem, however, is grabbing people's attention for no reason, i.e. by pre-announcements without anything to deliver. If you want people to test something, make sure you have something to look at. It's pointless saying that you have a hold for testing, but it won't be ready in 3 weeks; you might as well wait for three weeks, finish it, and then announce it. For example, I will be honest and say that I have stopped looking in your announcing threads for the reason that I don't believe that the thread contains anything to look at or test, and also because I don't want to see the retaliation or argument that may occur because of it.

Now, if you're concerned about people not testing your holds, because you have never finished a project, don't be. The whole reason for testing is to help complete unfinished holds - what's the point in testing a completely finished hold? Even some of the veteran architects have older, unfinished things that got incorporated into one project, but that didn't make any difference to their architecting status.

One other thing you should not do is to call an incomplete hold worthless. Five incomplete holds with 60 completed rooms total inside them is perhaps worth one almost completed one with 50. A completed room is itself a mini-project; DROD can allow you to patch them together in completely different ways to make a completely new hold, although it can be hard to change a level that you've always considered should look like what it does.

So, I offer you a piece of advice:

Take all the holds you have ever started and not released into contests. Put them into one single hold (copy and paste the levels into a new hold), and post it onto the Architecture board, where we can all see what you have done, and advise you on how to put the rooms together to make one coherent hold. In that way, we have something to look at, and you get your rooms salvaged - it's a win/win situation if you let it be that way.

As an added incentive, if you do this (I will check the Architecture board, or you can PM me), then I will promise to look at the hold at least once and make a comment on some aspects of it (I have not tested anything recently due to my studies, so this is quite a commitment of time for me). If you are patient (please wait for at least a week for replies), then you can give yourself another shot at hold-building. Does this seem reasonable?

Right, so I'll apologise again for bumping the thread, but it does need to be said that it can be very frustrating to fail to complete a project due to a lack of patience or time. Therefore, while we do need to exert some forceful control to stop it cascading out of control (such as what Banjooie is doing), we also need to be patient ourselves and understand that this kind of problem is not soluble simply by shoving it under the carpet (or a sack, St. Ives style). So, although we shouldn't have any more threads like this posted (i.e. I agree with you, NiroZ), I think it is worth keeping this one for posterity.

Now, of course, I may have missed something relating to this discussion (I was absent for many months), so I could have got the whole concept utterly wrong. If that is so, however, then please just let me know nicely, since I won't be able to catch up 5 months of posts all in a flash.

Oh, and Jeff, if you are still reading this far down the post (which I hope you are), please think about what you are going to say in your next reply very carefully. We are all trying to be reasonable towards you, so don't make it any harder for yourself by upsetting anyone.

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[Last edited by agaricus5 at 11-09-2006 10:11 PM]

Jeff_Ray...
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I was actually doing this too. I was working on a compilation already.

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Click here to find out my LPs' progress, and find out what I plan to tackle next!

Currently playing:


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-Work in Progress:

agaricus5
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Jeff_Ray... wrote:
I was actually doing this too. I was working on a compilation already.

Okay, that's a good start. Now either...

1) Post it as it is on the Architecture board if you really cannot wait for feedback.

OR

2) Complete whatever you need to finish first, then put it on the Architecture board.

Whichever you choose, please don't make any more announcements about your hold on any board but Architecture; that's the board for holds under construction.

Actually, just as a sideline, I am actually slightly irritated by all the pre-announcements of holds on the General board. The Architecture board is good enough for most adverts; cluttering up the General board with "look! I'm about to release something" threads is a bit silly. In my opinion, the only holds that should be publicised there are SS holds (for which Architecture isn't quite appropriate), or official canon holds.

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BeefontheBone
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Niccus wrote:Who is as subtle as a 70-year old giant sequoia in the middle of a prairie but, beyond that, is pretty "subtle".

Ah, but you write in smaller and smaller letters, which as we all know is the height of subtlety...

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