navithmastero
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Hi guys, I've been working on a few thematic levels recently so here's the result. Currently there are only two levels, although these are complete. I plan to add at least a couple more levels but any comments on what is present thusfar would be great.

The levels are based on certain elements, (so far these are skippers and snakes) and sit in roughly the 6-7 brain region I would've thought. Any comments are welcome!

At the moment I'm a little bit concerned about Reptile Chambers 4N1W as I feel this might just be unreasonably hard, lemme know (although obviously, all comments are welcome)!

Thanks for your time!

EDIT: I've abandoned this for now.


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[Last edited by navithmastero at 04-04-2018 03:01 PM]

Chaco
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Quick note: It doesn't look like Waterborne 2S1E is solvable, because there's no escape raft or other method of getting off the island after you've gotten your sword back.

EDIT: Waterborne 3S3E is also breakable; it's perfectly OK to let waterskippers get into the east end of the pond behind the force arrows because after you've killed the Aumtlich your raft can still get on the force arrows, kill the skippers and go North or South to escape. You'll need to add diagonal force arrows or thicken the force arrow wall somehow.

In Waterborne 3S4E, there's a backtracking/stuck problem where you can take the southeast raft, exit to the West into 3S3E at the southwest corner of the room, then come back to 3S4E and be completely stuck with no way to get back to the main area since there's no return raft.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 03-02-2018 07:54 PM]

navithmastero
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Hopefully fixed these things: see original post.

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Chaco
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File: danielshold_chaco_level1.demo (5.9 KB)
Downloaded 43 times.
License: Public Domain

Alright, I'm all done with the first level. Demos attached. Here's some other miscellaneous comments:

1S1E: This room kind of reminded me of some Blind DROD Race rooms. There's a fairly easy tactic to getting this one done quickly but I could easily picture somebody getting stuck on it for a while if they were a little rusty with guards.

3S1E: Nice trick, don't think I've seen it before. Thankfully the format makes it pretty obvious what to do, the tricky part is just getting a waterskipper into place. Good thing this room is small with just the right amount of obstacles. Being able to move diagonally past briar helps a lot.

3S2E: Can't tell if the trick I used here was intentional or not.

3S4E: I was complaining a little bit about stalwart priority the other day, but thankfully the actual solution is pretty straightforward and doesn't involve any kind of advanced manipulation or dependency on broken pathmap tiebreaking. Fair room, glad it's this small.

3S5E: Looks hard but is actually fairly easy if you can kill the two brained serpents fast by taking advantage of the fact that serpents love going North, even brained serpents.

1S4E: Probably the hardest room on the level, outstripping all the other rooms by quite a lot. This wouldn't be out of place in a larrymurk-style advanced snake tactics hold. Not entirely sure how this room could be made easier without affecting the central lynchpin though. It'd be nice to have a few checkpoints over by the waterskipper's strip.

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Chaco
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The stairs in level 1 end the hold, so I can't give any demos for level 2 yet. Nonetheless I think these comments pretty much speak for themselves. I've solved every room except 4N1W.

1W: The W and S target pressure plates can be made a lot easier by just keeping Beethro in the southwest plate area and directly luring serpents in there instead of having to "push" them in there. Not sure whether you want to fix that or not.

2N1W: Neat room - I think it's easiest to get the adder to come into the blob from the North end, but other directions might also be possible. Unfortunately the bomb doesn't open the force arrow *you're standing on* to let you out, so after solving the room you're stuck.

3N1W: A little tricky, but fortunately you have plenty of space to outmaneuver the roach, and the serpent can help you turn your sword if you have to. I ended up killing it by


3N2W: The movement order is different here, but after a little bit of fiddling around to kill the golem in a good spot I was able to use a pretty much unmodified technique to kill the snake, where I just had the roach move into position one turn later than in 3N1W. Not sure this merits a separate room.

4N1W: Yeah, I'd agree that this is probably too hard the way it is now. There's two reasons that combine to make this hard - the first is that the fire trap turns on and off to make the wraithwings brained/unbrained; if they stayed brained the whole time it'd be easier to work out how many moves it'd take them to get in place. The other is that the room is too open-ended with still some walls in place, meaning that depending on which way the adder is going, how long it is and where I put the golem corpses, wraithwings can take slightly different lengths of time to reach the bottom.

I think this room could benefit a lot from having either tighter corridors where the wraithwings' movements could be better controlled/predicted, or having some other setup where monster path lengths could be more directly controlled rather than highly indirectly controlled.

4N1E: Looks scary, but nothing a little counting can't handle.

3N1E, 1N1E: These are basically the same trick, used in different ways (and needing different methods for move-count optimization).

2N1E: I ended up solving this one pretty much just by inspection; the widgets "had to be there for a certain purpose". It's a little player-unfriendly that you can't check the serpent parity until the adder has been put in the west passage, though - even though it's the same setup as in Waterborne 1S4E (just with a stationary obstacle this time), it means that if somebody doesn't realize the trick they have to re-do the adder manipulation part again.

1E: Neat room that wouldn't be out of place in an Architects' Edition era hold. I ended up solving this one by getting the goblin to replace the serpent's tail, which I think requires favorable movement order? I think this room is solvable no matter which of the two monsters moves first, though.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 03-04-2018 04:54 AM]

navithmastero
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Thanks a lot Chaco! Done a little update where I've taken the snake room from Waterborne and put it at 4N1W in Reptile Chambers. I've also fixed 2N1W and hopefully made it so that you can no longer stay in the bottom corner in 1W. As for 1N1E and 3N1E, do you think I should take out one of these rooms since they revolve around a similar technique?

Also, for Waterborne 3S2E, what you're doing is nearly what's intended, but not quite, I've changed the room slightly to reflect this.

Stairs also now lead to the next level!

Updated the original post.

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[Last edited by navithmastero at 03-04-2018 10:35 AM]

navithmastero
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Update! Overhaul of the hold with some rooms removed and some added, now in a more aesthetically pleasing package. Am looking to only add a few more puzzles probably so lemme know how you feel about this new look.

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navithmastero
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Another update! Would appreciate a few people looking at it as I feel that it is nearly ready for publishing at this point - just want to iron out any unintended solutions etc.

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jokokoe
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I'm not sure that it was the intended solution but in 2N2W, you can step one time on the token + trapdoor and a second time to get back your sword and kill the rattlesnake and the skipper. Maybe there is a force arrow missing ?

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navithmastero
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Good spot, also I realised there was another unintended solution in this room and have fixed. Thanks!

EDIT: oh and also 1N.

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[Last edited by navithmastero at 03-29-2018 05:30 PM]

Insoluble
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File: Daniels Hold.demo (18.5 KB)
Downloaded 42 times.
License: Public Domain

Looks like a couple of rooms became impossible to leave when you changed the layout.

1E: Not sure if what I did is intended.
2E: This room had no checkpoints. It was also super fiddly. Execution would be more enjoyable with just one wraith wing to be honest.
1S1E: I can't drop trap doors when disarmed. Were those supposed to be thin ice maybe? Couldn't get past this room, but checking in the editor it looks like there is a backtracking issue in 2S1E as well. If I exit to the west in that room I think I'm totally stuck. It looks like you need a platform on the west side of the room.
1N: Is the force arrow at (12,24) supposed to be pointing south instead of north? Room seems impossible to exit otherwise.
1N1W: Killed the brain (see demo). But what to do with the adder. Can;t trap it on hot tiles since it will just eat the corpses. I can get it stuck on itself but that will only shorten it so much even with the hot tiles. Is killing the brain supposed to allow me to get my sword back?
2N1W: This one is also on the fiddly side. You could get the same idea across with a length 3 serpent (or even length 2). There is no way to exit the room after killing everything as the green door leads to a dead end (well, technically a blue door, but that will always be up unless this room is already clear when I enter it.)
2N2W: This looks fixed. I now need the skipper to make the room work. Maybe put a checkpoint right before the pressure plate to make experimenting with different timings easier.
1N2W: Neat room. I enjoyed this one. Again, a checkpoint right before the plate might make it easier to experiment with timings for releasing the snake.
2W: My favorite so far. Neat idea for a room.

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[Last edited by Insoluble at 03-30-2018 07:58 AM]

navithmastero
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Awesome, thanks Insoluble, have changed a bunch of the rooms mentioned, hopefully all the breaks have been fixed etc. For 2E there needs to be two wraithwrings otherwise this is just trivial, although I might end up changing this room.

Updated.

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