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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Bugs : pushing moves & tokens
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Kallor
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icon pushing moves & tokens (0)  
Okay maybe an oversight rather than a bug but I thought this best fits under this topic anyway.

Alex Diener realized in his youtube let's plays that pushing moves don't activate saving spots. Playing around the editor I verified that this is also true for tokens, which is a slightly more serious matter.

I find this a little counterintuitive, but I understand it's probably too late to change this. But architects watch out, forcing the player to use a token might not work because of this.

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Kallor
01-05-2015 at 12:08 PM
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blorx1
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icon Re: pushing moves & tokens (0)  
This is because the player and other pushed things are treated as objects while being pushed.

This doesn't seem to prevent triggering fuses however.

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01-05-2015 at 02:52 PM
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disoriented
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icon Re: pushing moves & tokens (0)  
Just to be clear, we're talking about a player being pushed with a pushing weapon, right? Not when the player is pushing a keg or mirror (?)

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01-05-2015 at 04:51 PM
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Jutt
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icon Re: pushing moves & tokens (0)  
That seems indeed what Kallor meant. I am getting some interesting results testing this. What I found so far:

- The player pushing a mimic/decoy/etc onto a token does not activate it.
- A mimic or other entity pushing the player onto a token does activate it.

- The player pushing a mimic onto a checkpoint does not activate it.
- The player rotating their sword making a mimic push them onto a checkpoint does not activate it either,
- However: the player taking a step and then being pushed onto the token on the same turn does activate the checkpoint.
- Also note that the player stepping onto a checkpoint and then being pushed off by the mimic on the same turn does not activate it. It does make sense only to activate a checkpoint when you stand on it at the end of the turn, because that is when the state of the room is actually saved.

I'm not sure what was intended, but I agree with Kallor that the most intuitive behaviour would be to always activate tokens. For checkpoints it would be ok to only activate them at the end of the turn, but still activate no matter how the player landed on them.


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01-05-2015 at 07:57 PM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: pushing moves & tokens (0)  
I wonder if this is related to this issue that was giving me so many scripting headaches.

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01-05-2015 at 09:49 PM
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The spitemaster
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icon Re: pushing moves & tokens (0)  
This is a fix for my bug. It involved being pushed off time tokens on the turn that you stepped on them. The game would instantly crash if you tried to return to them. These might be unforeseen side effects.

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01-06-2015 at 12:11 AM
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bomber50
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File: Pushing Checkpoint Inconsistency.hold (1.1 KB)
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License: Public Domain
icon Re: pushing moves & tokens (0)  
The fix for 5.0.2 is currently bugged. See the attached hold.


07-26-2015 at 06:27 PM
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adS
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icon Re: pushing moves & tokens (0)  
quote:
bomber50 wrote:
The fix for 5.0.2 is currently bugged. See the attached hold.


What is CCW?

best wishes,
adS

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07-29-2015 at 03:13 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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icon Re: pushing moves & tokens (0)  
Counter-clockwise. The way you turn with the Q key.
07-29-2015 at 03:16 PM
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disoriented
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icon Re: pushing moves & tokens (0)  
Most likely known as "anti-clockwise" in adS' part of the Eighth.

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07-29-2015 at 07:51 PM
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adS
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icon Re: pushing moves & tokens (+1)  
quote:
disoriented wrote:
Most likely known as "anti-clockwise" in adS' part of the Eighth.


Well we mathematicians call it positive.

We even call 180 degrees pi :)

adS

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07-29-2015 at 08:04 PM
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skell
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icon Re: pushing moves & tokens (+1)  
quote:
bomber50 wrote:
The fix for 5.0.2 is currently bugged. See the attached hold.


Unless I am missing something the both cases are intended behavior:

Case #1, CCW -> Restart:
- The game starts, Turn 0, nothing happens.
- CCW move, Turn 1, Beethro is pushed around, at some point the checkpoint (24, 18) is triggered, Beethro ends up on (16, 18).
- Restart, since the previous checkpoint was triggered on Turn 1 and we are right now on Turn 1, restart back to the beginning. Player is taken back to (25, 18), back to Turn 0.

Case #2, CCW -> Wait -> Restart:
- The game starts, Turn 0, nothing happens.
- CCW move, Turn 1, Beethro is pushed around, at some point the checkpoint (24, 18) is triggered, Beethro ends up on (16, 18).
- Wait, Turn 2, nothing happens.
- Restart, since it's turn 2 right now we are taken back to Turn 1 when we hit the last checkpoint, player is moved to the end moment of Turn 1, (16,18).

I think the issue is that it looks weird for the checkpoint to be triggered at (25, 18) yet the player ends up on (16,18) but it's all intended - it's not important WHERE is the checkpoint you've triggered. What is important is the end state of the turn the checkpoint that was triggered because, internally, restarting to a checkpoint replays all of the moves from the beginning of the room up until the turn when the checkpoint was triggered.

Well... Unless the room is demonstrating something that has already been fixed in 5.0.2.1004 and I just can't see it, so please correct me if I am wrong!

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07-29-2015 at 08:05 PM
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bomber50
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icon Re: pushing moves & tokens (0)  
Yes, it just looks weird.
07-29-2015 at 10:15 PM
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skell
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icon Re: pushing moves & tokens (0)  
Alright, then that is intended! Can you confirm this thread is fixed then?

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07-29-2015 at 10:46 PM
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bomber50
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icon Re: pushing moves & tokens (+1)  
Confirmed in 5.0.2.1004.
08-10-2015 at 10:18 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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icon Re: pushing moves & tokens (0)  
Bump to request clarification. So it seems this was settled for checkpoints, but I don't see any comment that the current behavior is intended for tokens.

To reiterate things said before: that behavior is that a pushed mimic or decoy does not activate tokens, but a pushed player does. This has significant consequences. It would be more intuitive (and less prone to breaking rooms) if a pushed double always activated tokens. I can't think of a room in a published hold that depends on this behavior.

But if this is intended behavior, oh well. I just want to make sure it is.
08-11-2016 at 06:39 PM
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