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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Lunchbreak Special 2 (work in progress - 12 entries already in)
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CuriousShyRabbit
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File: Lunchbreak Special 2 v2.hold (73.9 KB)
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icon Lunchbreak Special 2 (0)  
I said I would compile the 2008 Holds Al Dente contest, so I'm posting here to help force myself to work on it.

Nobody ever said the Rabbit was an architect, so this won't be anything fancy. I've made a simple hub level with stairs to 16 stub levels, which I will be replacing with the contest entries. I've used scripted wubbas, as in Dex Stewart's Infested Corridors, to prevent the player from entering any given contest entry more than once. While I personally enjoyed playing all the contest entries, it might be cruel and unusual punishment to force everyone to play them all. So, I'm allowing the player to exit and thus conquer the hold after playing any 8 of the entries.

Work to be done on the 16 stub levels:

Tortellini 1 - I've inserted Someone Else's hold, A Particularly Wormy Apple, here. I've added some more checkpoints.

Tortellini 2 - I've inserted BoyBlue's hold, Green Is the Color, here.

Tortellini 3 - I've inserted NoahT's hold, Holds Al Dente 2008 Entry, here. Blondbeard found some unintended solutions - does NoahT have a fix in mind?

Tortellini 4 - I will be inserting Chaco's hold, Palschkeep Thwettlebep, here. Because this hold contains custom characters, it will take forever to transfer. It turns out, when copying a level with custom characters, only the first one (alphabetically) transfers over, even if all the necessary custom characters are created ahead of time in the destination hold. For all the rest, the base character reverts to Citizen 1, and all speech and player role references revert to "?". So I have to go through every single script in the hold, and reset them all manually. What Chaco did in this hold should be specifically forbidden in all future architecture contests. He created custom characters based off of Beethro and Halph, which are exactly the same except for different names, and assigned speech and player roles to them throughout the hold. While this is a fine practice for one's own hold, it is just not suited for a compilation.

Tortellini 5 - I've inserted Dischorran's hold, The Guardians' Treasure, here. It turns out the scroll in my hold was not missing an apostrophe after all.

Tortellini 6 - I've inserted Rheb's hold, The Middle Plane, here.

Tortellini 7 - I've inserted Mr. Slice's hold, The Void, here. I added tunnels to correct two rooms that were not backtrackable. Also, when opening this hold in the editor, I got 3 pages of assertion errors. I found that moving some scripting characters around in the room stopped the beeping for me. Hope it doesn't beep at you. :|

Tortellini 8 - I've inserted VIPCOOL's hold, The Tower of Traps, here. I used this level to teach myself how to transfer custom characters. VIPCOOL had a title screen demo in his contest entry, and I still need to recreate that.

Ravioli 1 - I've inserted hyperme's hold, 3 Course Hold, here.

Ravioli 2 - I will be inserting hartleyhair's and Sillyman's hold, Arcade al Dente, here. There is also a custom character in this hold. I need help with the 2 sokoban puzzles, but solved everything else during the contest.

Ravioli 3 - I've inserted hyperme's hold, Bagel Strike, here. This hold is completable, but has a backtracking problem in Lair of Evil. Should I fix it?

Ravioli 4 - This slot was reserved for Jeff_Ray...'s hold, Blorn Bridge. I've blocked it off, because Jeff is using his entry as a level in his own hold, Homeward Adventure.

Ravioli 5 - I've inserted MeckMeck GRE's hold, Confusing Hold 2, here.

Ravioli 6 - I've inserted Tahnan's hold, DROD Tutorial, here.

Ravioli 7 - I will be inserting techant's hold, The Exterminator Chronicles, here. This is another hold that uses custom characters.

Ravioli 8 - I've inserted Mr. Slice's hold, Trapdoor Maze, here. Same deal with the assertion errors as with his other entry.

--------

I'm planning to change the scrolls in the restaurant after I've added all the levels. I'll take out the "Tortellini 1" "Tortellini 2" stuff, which I'm using to help me match the correct variables to each entry. I'm thinking of adding the rating each entry got in the contest, as well as a very short (5 words or less) description of what the player should expect to encounter in each entry.

Please go ahead and try what's here so far. I've had plenty of opportunity to screw up level entrances, stairs, and variables, and would be grateful if you caught any mistakes.

[Last edited by CuriousShyRabbit at 03-25-2009 08:49 AM : updated!]
03-22-2009 at 07:37 AM
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Rheb
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File: The Middle Plane.hold (10.2 KB)
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icon Re: Lunchbreak Special 2 (+2)  
ho hum... It appears I might have done a slight mistake when "fixing" the US in 1W. Thanks to the friendly rabbit that has now been corrected :D

(If you for some reason don't want to download another version you can just remove the ortho square and place an arrow facing north at the 20,13 trapdoor.)

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[Last edited by Rheb at 03-22-2009 10:49 AM]
03-22-2009 at 10:48 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Lunchbreak Special 2 (0)  
Thanks, Rheb, it works now. :)
03-22-2009 at 11:00 AM
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Tim
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icon Re: Lunchbreak Special 2 (+1)  
CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
Ravioli 2 - This slot is reserved for hartleyhair's and Sillyman's hold, Arcade Al Dente. However, I am confused about permissions. Here is what they wrote when submitting the contest entry:
Click here to view the secret text
I don't understand this. Will I be infringing someone else's copyright if I include this entry in the compilation?
According to them, you probably will. Just on the safe side, I'd suggest you not to include that entry.

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03-22-2009 at 11:29 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Lunchbreak Special 2 (0)  
Thanks VIPCOOL, I'll plan to include your entry. I think it will look cooler if I refer to it by the level name "The Tower of Traps," rather than the hold name "VIPCOOL - 2008 Al Dente 1" if that's okay by you. (And same for NoahT's entry, which has a level called "Puzzler.")

And thanks, Tim, I was afraid of that. Perhaps hartleyhair and Sillyman would like to provide an abridged version of their entry that is okay to use in the compilation.
03-23-2009 at 12:16 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Lunchbreak Special 2 (0)  
Updated! Please see the top post. :)
03-23-2009 at 06:07 AM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: Lunchbreak Special 2 (+1)  
CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
Should I add a few more checkpoints?
Is the answer to that question ever "no"?

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03-23-2009 at 06:18 AM
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zex20913
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icon Re: Lunchbreak Special 2 (+1)  
Dischorran wrote:
CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
Should I add a few more checkpoints?
Is the answer to that question ever "no"?

Yes. I think there's a point somewhere less than "The room is full of checkpoints" or even "the room is half full of checkpoints", where diminishing returns checks in. I'm quite annoyed in some holds when I run over a string of checkpoints, and then want to restore. It eliminates the usefulness of the checkpoint.

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03-23-2009 at 02:16 PM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: Lunchbreak Special 2 (0)  
The title of mine lost an apostrophe somewhere along the line - it should be "The Guardians' Treasure".

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03-23-2009 at 04:14 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Lunchbreak Special 2 (0)  
zex20913 wrote:
Dischorran wrote:
CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
Should I add a few more checkpoints?
Is the answer to that question ever "no"?

Yes. I think there's a point somewhere less than "The room is full of checkpoints" or even "the room is half full of checkpoints", where diminishing returns checks in. I'm quite annoyed in some holds when I run over a string of checkpoints, and then want to restore. It eliminates the usefulness of the checkpoint.
Guys, I was referring to Someone Else's entry, A Particularly Wormy Apple; I was not aiming to discuss the metaphysical ramifications of checkpoints in general. Would you please play that entry (top left stairs) and tell me what you think? I'm also interested in Someone Else's take on this; was the scarcity of checkpoints in certain rooms intentional to make the pasta/apple more chewy?

And yes, next time I make a major update, I'll put the missing apostrophe on the scroll.
03-23-2009 at 10:05 PM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: Lunchbreak Special 2 (+1)  
I'll just go paste what I wrote in my comments on the contest:
I wrote: The level layout and theme were good, but checkpoints are a major problem

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03-23-2009 at 10:33 PM
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Blondbeard
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icon Re: Lunchbreak Special 2 (+1)  
Yes please! Checkpoint for the wormy apple :)
03-24-2009 at 04:26 PM
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Sillyman
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icon Re: Lunchbreak Special 2 (+1)  
CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
And thanks, Tim, I was afraid of that. Perhaps hartleyhair and Sillyman would like to provide an abridged version of their entry that is okay to use in the compilation.

Hang on, let me go look at the hold... alright, everything should be fine if the hold is just copied in exactly as it is.

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03-24-2009 at 09:39 PM
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Blondbeard
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File: LS2 Puzzler 1S3W Victory.demo (1.6 KB)
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icon Re: Lunchbreak Special 2 (+2)  
A trivial solution in Puzzler 1S1W. Just kill the roach, and go and wait for the door to open. Not that I mind, though :) Messing with builders isn't my favourite.

Edit: Another odd solution. I do realise that odd solutions is probably not your doing, rabbit, but I'll post it here anyway.

[Last edited by Blondbeard at 03-25-2009 06:51 AM]
03-25-2009 at 06:13 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Lunchbreak Special 2 (0)  
Updated! I've added VIPCOOL's hold, and added checkpoints to Someone Else's hold.

Dischorran, thanks for pointing out the missing apostrophe, but my scroll in the hold was not missing an apostrophe. The error was just in my post here, and I fixed it. :P

Sillyman, thanks for clarifying that your entry was safe to use. :) Can you help me with the sokoban puzzles? Those are the last rooms I have unsolved.

Blondbeard, thanks for testing NoahT's entry. You should definitely look for odd solutions, because they might be my doing, especially if variables are involved. There's lots of potential for unintentional interactions between the entries, if I've messed up. In this case, my solutions in the contest were similar, and I agree they don't look quite right. I'll try to think of a simple fix... that is, if Noah would like them corrected. :)
03-25-2009 at 09:04 AM
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Blondbeard
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icon Re: Lunchbreak Special 2 (+2)  
Another thing: I guess the wubbas blocking staircases is to make it easy to navigate for players. This is, however not a very good solution (IMO). Some levels contains secrets, and it would be nice to be able to go back without restoring. I don't know what scripting is capable of, and I hope there is an easy solution.

Edit: I never understod Bagel Strike. Is there a secret trick? That is an awful lot of guards and slayers.

Edit again: Never mind. I got it.

[Last edited by Blondbeard at 03-25-2009 11:15 AM]
03-25-2009 at 09:12 AM
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Blondbeard
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icon Re: Lunchbreak Special 2 (+1)  
Except for what I've mentioned everything seems to be working (maybe not the door that are supposed to open after eight completed holds. I think it opened a bit early). I completed the ten available holds in 5 hours and 41 minutes. I have to say the quality of the holds was very high. A very fine job from the architects, and from you as well, Jenny :)
03-26-2009 at 09:52 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Lunchbreak Special 2 (0)  
Blondbeard wrote:
Another thing: I guess the wubbas blocking staircases is to make it easy to navigate for players. This is, however not a very good solution (IMO). Some levels contains secrets, and it would be nice to be able to go back without restoring.
Actually, my reason for not letting the player access an entry twice without restoring is simply because that's how it was in the contest. These were stand alone holds, and after the player used the end-of-hold stairs (which are the same stairs that take you back to the restaurant in this compilation) the only way to get back in was to restore. Most of the architects were not planning for the player to re-enter their empty hold and walk through it again from the beginning. While I'm not sure if there would be a problem with these holds, in general, that's not guarranteed to be possible, as monsters will be gone, some green or blue sister gates may be closed, and some scripts may have ended.

However, I've been thinking about your comment, and have some ideas I'll try this weekend. :)
03-26-2009 at 09:55 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Lunchbreak Special 2 (0)  
There's been a bit of a setback here. Apparently, my .dats are corrupted again, and DROD crashes whenever I try to add another entry into this compilation. I'll continue working on this as soon as I have time to replace my bad .dats. :weep

In the meantime, I could use some help with the two Sokoban puzzles in Sillyman's and hareltyhair's entry. Does anyone have demos for Arcade Al Dente : World 2 : 1E and Arcade Al Dente : World 2 : 1S? They'd be much appreciated! :)

Edit: here is where Arcade Al Dente is posted in Contests.

[Last edited by CuriousShyRabbit at 04-04-2009 04:39 AM]
03-30-2009 at 09:12 AM
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Syntax
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icon Re: Lunchbreak Special 2 (0)  
You get the idea

[EDIT]

Attached demo removed

[Last edited by Syntax at 04-04-2009 05:35 AM]
04-04-2009 at 05:30 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Lunchbreak Special 2 (+2)  
I've got a very unhappy situation here. I haven't been able to add any more entries into this compilation because DROD crashes when I try to copy and paste more levels in. Specifically, I copy and paste a level from one hold without a problem. Then I go back and copy the next level from the same hold. As soon as I select Lunchbreak Special 2 in the list, DROD instantly crashes without adding anything to DROD.err. If I make a new hold, and copy and paste the levels there, I don't have a problem. I was advised that possibly my .dats were corrupted.

So today, I exported my player, moved data.dat hold.dat player.dat save.dat and text.dat into a separate folder, and restarted DROD, so it created new .dats to replace the ones I moved. I manually reimported all the holds I had before and reimported my player. (As I suspected, the new .dats are smaller than my old ones. Also, as I feared, a whole bunch of secret rooms became unconquered. The old if-it-was-the-last-room-conquered-in-the-hold bug... grrrr.) However, no luck with the hold compilation. I'm getting exactly the same crash as I did before.

:weep

I might need to start this project over from scratch.
04-07-2009 at 08:25 AM
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Blondbeard
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icon Re: Lunchbreak Special 2 (0)  
Makes me sad to hear :( Hmm... Do you think it could work if someone else made a copy of the hold, and imported something, and reposted it here?
04-08-2009 at 11:54 AM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Lunchbreak Special 2 (0)  
It occurs to me that CuriousShyRabbit (and possibly Mattcrampy) is/are currently the only person/people with a copy of my Lunchbreak Special 2 submission. Since it looks like it'll be a long time before Lunchbreak Special 2 is compiled (if it ever is), I'm posting my entry here so the general public can at least see the hold.

Also, since I think very few people managed to actually play the hold back then (probably just CSR and Mattcrampy), everyone else can treat this as an all new bite-size Chaco hold (that hasn't undergone rigorous rounds of Architecture revision). :)

EDIT:

I have been graciously informed that I forgot completely about the poll thread, so I removed the attachment. Go over there to see the hold.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 03-13-2012 12:43 AM]
03-13-2012 at 12:22 AM
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