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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Fireballs (A short hold illustrating the possibilities of a new monster)
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Chaco
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icon Fireballs (+4)  
This hold has one level. In it, there is an incredibly sparse story, a few introduction rooms explicitly showing the movement pattern of the fireball, and some puzzle rooms using the capabilities of fireballs and their interactions with other monsters.

Incidentally, this level uses the Volcano style. It's only necessary for atmospheric effect - not at all needed for anything else.

EDIT:

Second draft uploaded on January 16th, 2008.

EDIT:

This hold has now been released: see the Holds board thread.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 01-21-2008 06:59 PM]
01-15-2008 at 08:44 PM
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Chaco
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File: fireball.png (4 KB)
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icon Re: Fireballs (+1)  
Here are the tiles used for the fireball characters in this hold.

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01-15-2008 at 08:45 PM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Fireballs (+1)  
Here are the tiles used for the "heavy" fireball characters used in this hold.

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01-15-2008 at 08:46 PM
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Neather2
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icon Re: Fireballs (0)  
Hmmm...i don't have played this but i have hear "fireballs" in another hold.

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01-15-2008 at 08:47 PM
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Chaco
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File: fireball.txt (657 bytes)
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icon Re: Fireballs (+1)  
Finally, here's a base script for the fireball behavior. See the in-game help files for how to copy and paste this script into a DROD character.

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01-15-2008 at 08:48 PM
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Mr. Slice
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icon Re: Fireballs (0)  
Wow! The graphics on the fireballs are extremely precise! I guess you took your time on this. The scripting is a little long though. Must've taken awhile to think about how it would work precisely.

Sweet hold you got there. It definitely gives puzzles based on fireballs. Just wish I had the mod.

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01-15-2008 at 11:39 PM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Fireballs (0)  
What mod?

I've given you everything you need to make your own fireball characters in your own hold, right here.

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01-16-2008 at 01:29 AM
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Mr. Slice
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No. I mean the Volcano Style mod. If I had that, this hold would be a lot cooler.

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01-16-2008 at 01:30 AM
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NoahT
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icon Re: Fireballs (0)  
Erm, the first post links to it.

-Noah

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01-16-2008 at 01:34 AM
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Mr. Slice
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icon Re: Fireballs (0)  
I know it does. But I managed to break my computer incorrectly downloading it. I could ask for help, but I've already done that around here. But there is one last thing I can rely on for help. Dad.

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01-16-2008 at 04:32 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Fireballs (0)  
Downloading the dmf (not the zip) and following Schik's instructions worked fine for me.
01-16-2008 at 04:43 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Fireballs (+2)  
Now I've had a chance to play most of it. This is a very cool little hold. The two kinds of fireballs show definite puzzle potential in blocking other monsters and triggering orbs. It would be nice to see more puzzles with these monsters. :)

3S - I was confused by this simple room, simply because manipulating the fireball had nothing to do with killing the wraithwing.
4S - Worked well. Very clear what to do here.
4S1E - Good practice with manipulation and timing to get everything to fall into place at the end.
3S1E - Got this one by trial and error.
5S1E - Quick and fun. Any particular reason why I get a mimic and not a decoy to block with?
5S2E - A very nice display of the architect's skill with timing.
5S1W - This one made me sit down and count squares. It worked! A nice illustration of the fireball's ability to block monster movement.
6S - Has some problems. The force arrows at (26,9) and (26,10) prevent my exit after I've solved the room. Also, in its current configuration, the fireball is unnecessary. I can kill all the monsters with Beethro's sword.

I haven't solved either of the secret rooms yet.
For 6S1E, I'm having problems getting the fireballs to block the necessary squares on turn 0 of the spawn cycle. I can get them there on any odd turn, but not an even turn.
I just haven't spent much time on 4S2E, and currently have no clue what to do.
01-16-2008 at 10:11 AM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Fireballs (+1)  
CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
3S - I was confused by this simple room, simply because manipulating the fireball had nothing to do with killing the wraithwing.

wh-th- how the jeebus did you clear that room without putting the fireball onto the force arrow?!?

The idea is that you strike the orb, and the wraithwing will fly into the force arrow trap unless the trap is already filled with the fireball.

6S - Has some problems. The force arrows at (26,9) and (26,10) prevent my exit after I've solved the room. Also, in its current configuration, the fireball is unnecessary. I can kill all the monsters with Beethro's sword.

Ah, nuts. That's the last room I'd made, and I hadn't tested it enough. A fixed version should be uploaded in a while that should force you to manipulate the fireball and the adder.

For 6S1E, I'm having problems getting the fireballs to block the necessary squares on turn 0 of the spawn cycle. I can get them there on any odd turn, but not an even turn.

I swear I solved this room once, but I could be mistaken. In any case, if you're only getting them there on odd turns, then it's provenly impossible to do the room at all, since you can only delay fireballs by multiples of 8. I'll probably replace this room; it's not too fun.

I just haven't spent much time on 4S2E, and currently have no clue what to do.

Spend a little bit more time. I'll give you a hint to get you started -

Click here to view the secret text


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01-16-2008 at 11:50 AM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Fireballs (+1)  
I have uploaded a new version of the hold.

6S has been fixed - it is now possible, and the adder's path has been lengthened so the fireball can stay ahead of it.

6S1E has been replaced with a new room with the same idea of blocking tar with fireballs. However, I like this room a lot more and think it's much more fair. Nevertheless, I am keeping it as a secret, unrequired room.

I'll let this hold stay on the Architecture board until Friday for more comments. Unless something comes up, on Friday I'll submit a You and Conquerers Edit version of the hold to the Hold Administration board, where hopefully the promotion process should go speedily :)

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01-16-2008 at 10:05 PM
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calamarain
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Chaco wrote:
I'll let this hold stay on the Architecture board until Friday for more comments. Unless something comes up, on Friday I'll submit a You and Conquerers Edit version of the hold to the Hold Administration board, where hopefully the promotion process should go speedily :)
I have to say that I'm rather impressed. It's great to see someone else also making new monsters using the scripting system!

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01-16-2008 at 10:26 PM
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NoahT
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Very nice. There are some neat puzzles here, and I think that fireballs could have a lot of potential. Just wondering, how did you script them?

-Noah

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[Last edited by NoahT at 01-17-2008 01:31 AM]
01-17-2008 at 01:31 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Fireballs (+1)  
This time it wasn't so late at night, and I mastered it. Very enjoyable! :)

3S - I don't know what I was thinking when I typed my previous comment. It's entirely possible I wasn't thinking at all! Sorry.

6S - This one is indeed solvable now, one of those rooms where everything falls into place if you set it up right. The yellow door around the brain removed the trivial solution.

6S1E - I like the new room much better! A little bit of experimentation shows what to do, and then it's pretty cool watching the fireballs go round and round that double circuit.

4S2E - Did it this time. This is definitely the hardest room. Moving the mimic towards the wraithwing while keeping it off the hot tiles and while blocking the fireball at the same time is quite a handful!

Unless another player can find a trivial solution, it looks like this hold is ready to go.

============
Finally, as Neather2's comment is just kind of hanging up there, I'll say something. It's true that VIPCOOL is working on a beta hold that has a scripted monster called a "fireball" in it. However Chaco's "fireballs" and VIPCOOL's "fireballs" have completely different sprites, different scripts, and different puzzle potential. I don't think any players will be confused. I think that all varieties of "fireball" can happily co-exist in the custom monster world. :)
01-17-2008 at 01:43 AM
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Chaco
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NoahT wrote:
Very nice. There are some neat puzzles here, and I think that fireballs could have a lot of potential. Just wondering, how did you script them?

-Noah

Well, if you look in the editor, (or in the text file I provided) you can see the exact script that the fireballs follow.

I came up with the algorithm while I was messing around with using Move To Single Step as a conditional - true if the step actually takes place, false if it doesn't. There are several games with elements that go forward and turn when they hit something, and the implementation I used seemed to work the best in DROD.

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01-17-2008 at 02:21 AM
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NoahT
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Silly me, I hadn't checked to see if it was Anyone Edit. :selftwak

-Noah

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[Last edited by NoahT at 01-17-2008 02:39 AM]
01-17-2008 at 02:39 AM
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Someone Else
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icon Re: Fireballs (+1)  
Mastered! I like it.
01-18-2008 at 12:43 AM
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TFMurphy
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File: Fireballs.jpg (179.7 KB)
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icon Re: Fireballs (+5)  
The new patch breaks one of the rooms in this hold due to the way bomb explosions interacting with Force Arrows have changed.

I suspect Chaco can't install the latest patch at this present time (since the Mac version isn't available yet), so I'm attaching a picture of the current explosion radius as reported by the game after the patch is installed.

This room should be able to be fixed without affecting current highscores.

[Last edited by TFMurphy at 02-10-2011 01:24 AM : Used JPG instead of PNG for smaller file size]
02-10-2011 at 01:22 AM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Fireballs (0)  
Okay, I see what changed there and it makes sense that there would be a change like that regarding force arrow and explosion generation physics.

Anyway, it would be a simple matter for me to add another bomb so that all the explosions work correctly.

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02-10-2011 at 04:37 AM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Fireballs (+2)  
Okay, here's a fixed version of the hold.

I moved some bombs in 5S2E so the explosions can now go straight across force arrows instead of having to depend on diagonal expansion.

Let me know when the hold on the Holds board is updated or whether I should do anything in that regard, and I'll remove this version when the update is completed.

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02-12-2011 at 10:13 PM
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