Stephen4Louise
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File: Beethros day off1.hold (11 KB)
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License: Public Domain

Here is my first attempt at a hold. It is nine rooms long, but there is a twist to most of them.
I still need to add some npc's to some of the room, but they won't affect any puzzles. If anyone notices any problems with scripting (or anything else for that matter) let me know.

Enjoy,

Steve.

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[Last edited by Stephen4Louise at 01-26-2006 04:50 PM]

Chaco
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Goodie. He can relax instead of chopping up roaches... I hope.

I shall play the rooms and then get back to you.

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Stephen4Louise
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Chaco wrote:
Goodie. He can relax instead of chopping up roaches... I hope.

Well hopefully you won't be chopping up to many roaches, but I don't know about relaxing.

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[Last edited by Stephen4Louise at 01-25-2006 03:54 PM]

Swivel
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Hmm. I've been working on 3S1E and it seems to be mal-scripted. I've completed the room (killed all the goblinses) but now nothing happens. What could cause this?

EDIT: Wait, maybe I'm not supposed the kill any of the goblins. (Duh!)

Further EDIT: In other news, I'm not positive if 2S1E is possible (the bottom section). If the monster placement order were tweaked slightly, I'd be able to do it, but I'm having slight problems with it as it is. By the way, excellent job! It looks prettier with my full version of JtRH.

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[Last edited by Swivel at 01-25-2006 04:36 PM]

Stephen4Louise
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Swivel wrote:
Hmm. I've been working on 3S1E and it seems to be mal-scripted. I've completed the room (killed all the goblinses) but now nothing happens. What could cause this?

Listen to the man at the desk at the start of the hold, don't hurt any creatures during your visit to the zoo.

Edit : Just noticed your edit. And I've just remembered that I have to add scripting to the pit/wraith room to prevent any harming of the wraithwings.
By the way, that was good going to kill all the goblins! I'll have to add some more.

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[Last edited by Stephen4Louise at 01-25-2006 04:20 PM]

Swivel
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Stephen4Louise wrote:
Edit : Just noticed your edit. And I've just remembered that I have to add scripting to the pit/wraith room to prevent any harming of the wraithwings.
By the way, that was good going to kill all the goblins! I'll have to add some more.

I killed all of the goblins by standing on that top door (the room exit door). The guards, too, were history in the eyeball room. I didn't see a need to kill the wraithwings; perhaps you could add another one? Hopefully, though, it would not make the room too difficult.

Stephen4Louise
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Swivel wrote:
I killed all of the goblins by standing on that top door (the room exit door). The guards, too, were history in the eyeball room. I didn't see a need to kill the wraithwings; perhaps you could add another one? Hopefully, though, it would not make the room too difficult.

Were you able to exit the eyeball room after killing the guards?
I need to add some scripting to the wraithwing room to close the doors if any of them are killed. I will do that as soon as I get a chance.

Stephen4Louise
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Swivel wrote:
Further EDIT: In other news, I'm not positive if 2S1E is possible (the bottom section). If the monster placement order were tweaked slightly, I'd be able to do it, but I'm having slight problems with it as it is. By the way, excellent job! It looks prettier with my full version of JtRH.

I am positive that it is possible.

Swivel
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Awesome hold, man. I enjoyed it, but to quote many people, "the final puzzle was anticlimactic." (They weren't talking about your hold, of course.)

Perhaps an event can be triggered if one kills all of the goblins. For example, the goblin king may say something about "isolating the delver." In other words, something to the effect that Beethro is stuck.

The more interactive the hold for cute scripting stuff, the better. This is true as long as you take cute in the right way.

For example, someone could have a dialogue box that asks, "Aren't those rattlesnakes scary?" If Beethro says yes, he could also say, "I've met several rattlesnakes in my day, and believe me, they are mean!" Alternatively, he could say, "No way! A rattlesnake isn't as daunting when you've dealt with them for years."

The tar section is fun, especially how the people get involved. Kudos on that! The hold has a linear sort of structure, but it's based upon a creative idea. Will it be expanded? Perhaps you could have many different "day off" scenarios, but that's asking a little too much. For example, you could have Beethro go to a fun park, if that idea weren't already taken.

Jeff_Ray...
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How do i make it past the spiders?

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Swivel
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Jeff_Ray... wrote:
How do i make it past the spiders?

As Steve said, sword orientation is important. I believe that you must go though the chamber with your sword pointing in only one direction for the entire time. Here's a hint:


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Tahnan
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The guards in 1S1E weren't too hard to kill: wait at (11,26) for a roach, kill it, and then stay at (11,26) and move up to (12,25) as the guards come in one by one. (I didn't try too hard to get past the roaches after doing so, so I don't know whether one can.) It's not perfect--sometimes two guards get stuck at the entrance to that corridor--but it worked once, anyway. (Waiting at (10,25) and moving down to (11,26), sword pointed NE, may be more reliable.)

Stephen4Louise
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Swivel wrote:
Awesome hold, man. I enjoyed it, but to quote many people, "the final puzzle was anticlimactic." (They weren't talking about your hold, of course.)
........
The tar section is fun, especially how the people get involved. Kudos on that! The hold has a linear sort of structure, but it's based upon a creative idea. Will it be expanded? Perhaps you could have many different "day off" scenarios, but that's asking a little too much. For example, you could have Beethro go to a fun park, if that idea weren't already taken.

Thanks for the comments. I have no plans to expand, but I will be fixing up any problems that have been discovered and adding some extra npc's in the rooms that have none. I will probably swap the spider/tar room and the roach room. People seem to be having most trouble with the spiders, so I will save it for last. Hopefully the updated version will be ready in a few days.
Comments are still wanted, so keep them coming.

Swivel
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Just one other note about the guards: perhaps it might be better if the guards were not placed as monsters. Perhaps you could have them as NPCs sitting around, perhaps eating at tables, and then be turned into monsters when Beethro stabs a monster. I don't believe that 1S1E needs a door at the end because even if the guards are killed, the roaches are too overwhelming. Perhaps you should switch 2S1E with 1S1E; but save the spider puzzle for second to last (and the tar maze for last). In addition, it seems as though both of the mosnter-stab-checkers in that room respond when you form or kill a tar baby. Is this intended?

Finally (and I do mean finally), a checkpoint right before exiting a room would be great. This is done with the 'Neather. Are you releasing the hold? I think that it would be a great representation of idealesqe architecture.

-Swivel

Stephen4Louise
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Swivel wrote:
Just one other note about the guards: perhaps it might be better if the guards were not placed as monsters. Perhaps you could have them as NPCs sitting around, perhaps eating at tables, and then be turned into monsters when Beethro stabs a monster. I don't believe that 1S1E needs a door at the end because even if the guards are killed, the roaches are too overwhelming. Perhaps you should switch 2S1E with 1S1E; but save the spider puzzle for second to last (and the tar maze for last). In addition, it seems as though both of the mosnter-stab-checkers in that room respond when you form or kill a tar baby. Is this intended?

Finally (and I do mean finally), a checkpoint right before exiting a room would be great. This is done with the 'Neather. Are you releasing the hold? I think that it would be a great representation of idealesqe architecture.

-Swivel

Good idea about the guards, I will add that to the list of things to do. I had trouble deciding how to handle the tar puzzle. Once in the tar, it is impossible to escape without forming a tarbaby and killing it. I do have a small change to make to the speech in the room to make it play out a bit better and I will probably change the way the escape from the tar is handled, so only one NPC responds to the baby kill.
I will be releasing this at some stage, but not until I am happy with the finished product.

Edit : The latest version has been attached to the top post. The wraithwing room has been scripted, speech in the goblin room tidied.
A shortcut has been added to save backtracking after clearing the mudslide.
Some other small changes in other rooms.
I have also made changes to the event handling in the tar room, so I'd appreciate if someone could test it again.

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[Last edited by Stephen4Louise at 01-26-2006 04:51 PM]

Jeff_Ray...
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Don't you think you should make it Anyone-Edit? If someone is stuck, they could skip to the next room and do the other one later.


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Stephen4Louise
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Jeff_Ray... wrote:
Don't you think you should make it Anyone-Edit? If someone is stuck, they could skip to the next room and do the other one later.

Which room are you stuck on? I can PM you some help if you like.

Jeff_Ray...
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I'm not stuck, but if someone is stuck, they can go on another room and do it later. It's pretty much like in some maths exams... for us, since we start with the number we want, and finish with the one we want, so we could do #4, then finish with #3! Same thing here, but it's not a math exam.

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Stephen4Louise
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Jeff_Ray... wrote:
I'm not stuck, but if someone is stuck, they can go on another room and do it later. It's pretty much like in some maths exams... for us, since we start with the number we want, and finish with the one we want, so we could do #4, then finish with #3! Same thing here, but it's not a math exam.

I take your point, and I agree that it is useful in a large hold. But the hold I am testing is very short and linear, things do go wrong in a few of the rooms if you start in the wrong place, so I decided that it would be best in this case to force testers to play though the hold from start to finish.

Banjooie
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I'm really impressed by this hold, actually. I think getting through the eyes as one of the more interesting experiences I've ever had playing DROD.

Tahnan
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Banjooie wrote:
I'm really impressed by this hold, actually. I think getting through the eyes as one of the more interesting experiences I've ever had playing DROD.

I don't know--it wasn't too hard, as long as you don't mind hitting backspace a lot. :-)

Stephen4Louise
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Tahnan wrote:

Banjooie wrote:
I'm really impressed by this hold, actually. I think getting through the eyes as one of the more interesting experiences I've ever had playing DROD.

I don't know--it wasn't too hard, as long as you don't mind hitting backspace a lot. :-)

Thanks for the comments guys. I will be finishing this up for release to the holds board over the next few days, so if there are any problems or sugestions, let me know.

If it wasn't for the backspace key, I don't think the eye room would have worked (or I would have had to make it a lot easier). I know the way through it, but it's still hard to get there without making at least one mistake.

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[Last edited by Stephen4Louise at 02-01-2006 09:17 AM]

Tahnan
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Stephen4Louise wrote:
If it wasn't for the backspace key, I don't think the eye room would have worked (or I would have had to make it a lot easier). I know the way through it, but it's still hard to get there without making at least one mistake.

Another technique I use--especially for rooms with tar/mud mothers, and among those especially for rooms in which you have to drop trapdoors in certain non-memorable locations which will soon be tar/mud-covered--is to take a screenshot, size it to full screen, and switch back and forth between that and DROD. It acts as a kind of overlay map.

Not helpful on its own with eyes; but you can draw red lines outward from each eye (or black out the unsafe squares), which makes it much more apparent where it's safe to walk. This technique was especially helpful in a room by, er, someone, I forget, where there were eyes lining both top and bottom of the room, looking inward towards force arrows that would trap them if triggered, and you had to walk along the middle through breakable walls to get to an orb on the other side of the room. (Sound familiar?) In that case, where a single "undo" wasn't enough because you had to plan ahead to make sure you weren't breaking a wall you'd need later, having the overlay of safe squares was quite handy.

But I digress.

Stefan
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Tahnan wrote:
This technique was especially helpful in a room by, er, someone, I forget, where there were eyes lining both top and bottom of the room, looking inward towards force arrows that would trap them if triggered, and you had to walk along the middle through breakable walls to get to an orb on the other side of the room. (Sound familiar?)

Sound a bit like this room (Unfortunate Architect Compilation : Restricted Resources : 1 East) by me, but there are other slightly similar rooms out there (such as the room in Hazardous Halls that the room was inspired by) and you don't seem to have completed this one yet, so you may be thinking of an another room.

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Tahnan
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Stefan wrote:
Sound a bit like this room (Unfortunate Architect Compilation : Restricted Resources : 1 East) by me [...] you don't seem to have completed this one yet, so you may be thinking of an another room.

No, that's exactly the room I meant. I only just this week bought a CaravelNet membership--and I lost a lot of played-hold statistics on an uninstall/reinstall of JtRH a few months ago--so I've played much, much more than my profile and scores suggest.