Jatopian
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File: JtRH Sixth Level 1S1E Slayer kill.demo (2.5 KB)
Downloaded 78 times.
License: Public Domain

Seriously, I have found a pattern to many of the off-script Slayer kills. It goes like this:
In fact, this can be used as early as L3:2N1W. I suggest this fix:Of course, I am not Mike Rimer and I am unsure whether this or any fix is feasible or desirable, but I hope someone finds this helpful, or at least cool.

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 01-05-2006 05:34 AM : attached correct demo]

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
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Jatopian wrote:
Seriously, I have found a pattern to many of the off-script Slayer kills. It goes like this:

Click here to view the secret text

×

f f f B W
f f / f W
f f \\ f W
f f f S W
f f f f W
f f f W W
W W W W W

Beethro moves south and forces the Slayer south until Slayer moves to (3,2) and the hook is NW.
Beethro moves south and blades cross at (3,3).
Beethro moves south; Slayer dies.

In fact, this can be used as early as L3:2N1W.

I'm pretty sure that the highscore in JtRH: L3 2N 1W (or one of the nearby rooms) is dependent on that very set of moves, if I'm not wrong. Also, it's a technique I (and probably others) use quite often to manipulate the Slayer in tight areas, so changing it would effectively mean learning a new Slayer strategy, which could be problematic.

I suggest this fix:

Click here to view the secret text

×When Beethro moves [south, in the example], their blades briefly cross (for less than a turn). The Slayer retreats. Instead, he should point the hook directly at Beethro, forcing Beethro to retreat or cross again.

Of course, I am not Mike Rimer and I am unsure whether this or any fix is feasible or desirable, but I hope someone finds this helpful, or at least cool.

It's a fix that would work for this particular scenario, but it wouldn't work if there was an empty square to the northeast of the Slayer in your example. Beethro could step diagonally on the next move to kill the Slayer.

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Jatopian
Level: Smitemaster
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agaricus5 wrote:
it's a technique I (and probably others) use quite often to manipulate the Slayer in tight areas, so changing it would effectively mean learning a new Slayer strategy, which could be problematic.

I suggest this fix:

Click here to view the secret text

×When Beethro moves [south, in the example], their blades briefly cross (for less than a turn). The Slayer retreats. Instead, he should point the hook directly at Beethro, forcing Beethro to retreat or cross again.

Of course, I am not Mike Rimer and I am unsure whether this or any fix is feasible or desirable, but I hope someone finds this helpful, or at least cool.

It's a fix that would work for this particular scenario, but it wouldn't work if there was an empty square to the northeast of the Slayer in your example. Beethro could step diagonally on the next move to kill the Slayer.

Vice versa; the Slayer would step diagonally to kill him, unless coming from north, in which case the Slayer would move into that space.

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coppro
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No, the first thing Slayer does is ask "Can I kill Beethro?" he then kills him. Otherwise, he has some long AI algorithm. If he were changed to swing his sword and there was a square NE of him, then he would have alreaady killed Beethro.

rowrow
Level: Smiter
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Maybe there should be a drod contest:
Create a code for the slayer where it is impossible for the slayer to be killed.
(just joking)

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Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
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That's an easy one... run around the hold !!!

Seriously though, changing the behaviour would also break countless demos.

Doom
Level: Smitemaster

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rowrow wrote:
Maybe there should be a drod contest:
Create a code for the slayer where it is impossible for the slayer to be killed.

Invincibility On

Do I win?

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[Last edited by Doom at 02-04-2006 08:34 AM : typo]

Chaco
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No, because

1) You misspelled invincibility
2) Your character isn't even visible yet or
3) defined as a slayer

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Doom
Level: Smitemaster

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Chaco wrote:
No, because

1) You misspelled invincibility

Wow, I can't believe that. I always thought it's spelled like that... But I guess dictionary.com doesn't lie.

2) Your character isn't even visible yet or
3) defined as a slayer

Well, the original message told you to make a code for the Slayer, so it obviously can't be for anything else. As for the visibility, that isn't part of the scripting, so I just ignored it.

Blondbeard
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Hmm. I just realized it's very easy to kill slayers where you have access to tunnels. It can't be so hard to include the knowledge of tunnels in the slayer AI?

Chaco
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Pseudo-code:

IF tunnel_location = insidedangerzone THEN
 IF beethro_location = neartunnel THEN
  runawayfromtunnel();
 END IF
ELSE
 continuetopursuebeethro();
END IF

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[Last edited by Chaco at 02-03-2006 10:49 PM]

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Yeah, it would be that hard. And really not necessary-Slayers are not invincible. The 39th Slayer in JtRH is meant to be, because he was smart enough not to show up in rooms where it was easy to kill him (and also have Beethro escape). This is why he almost never shows up in rooms with bombs, mimic/decoy potions, or tunnels. I think it is perfectly reasonable to leave tunnels the way they are, so the architect needs to be aware that they may be a way to kill a Slayer.

Game on,

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Jatopian
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rowrow wrote:
Maybe there should be a drod contest:
Create a code for the slayer where it is impossible for the slayer to be killed.
(just joking)

It should be easy in TCB; with relative movement we could do 'if relative (x,y) = non-steppable then'. Of course that assumes no mimic/decoy potions etc.

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skarnet
Level: Goblin
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I hope the Slayer AI won't be changed, because a friend and I are heavily relying on it in a hold we're designing, and which features a certain amount of Slayer kills.

If you design a really unkillable AI, please make it a new character, and keep the Slayer as he is - he's not invincible, but really tricky to beat, and that's what we want

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mrimer
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Yeah, I think it's too late for changing any existing 2.0 monster logic unless some glaring bug is uncovered.

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Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
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[Last edited by mrimer at 02-12-2006 02:55 AM]