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navithmastero
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icon The Eighth Area (+3)  
Hi all!

I decided to make an easyish hold designed for novices. Here is what I came up with.

There are two six levels so far (one four finished, one not) they have a few lynchpins in them and I think are quite aesthetically pleasing. At the moment, there are a few lines of speech, but there is no plotline. So any ideas would be much appreciated.

I'd be thankful for any sort of comments. and if nothing else, I would particularly like your verdicts on Top Floor 1N, 3E and Unchartered Passages 2N, 3E.

Thanks in advance.

-nm

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[Last edited by navithmastero at 12-15-2015 03:49 PM]
06-05-2013 at 07:39 PM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: The Eighth Area (+1)  
I'm enjoying the puzzles, but I think this hold needs to make up its mind what it wants to be. Some rooms have tutorial scrolls that seem to be aimed at absolute beginners; the jump from those to the directly adjacent puzzle rooms is jarring.

Since you ask, I found 1N3E not especially fun since it takes quite a while to clean up the room after the thinking part is over.

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 06-05-2013 07:59 PM]
06-05-2013 at 07:51 PM
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navithmastero
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icon Re: The Eighth Area (+1)  
Nuntar wrote:
I'm enjoying the puzzles, but I think this hold needs to make up its mind what it wants to be. Some rooms have tutorial scrolls that seem to be aimed at absolute beginners; the jump from those to the directly adjacent puzzle rooms is jarring.

Originally, there was a plotline to the hold, but that kind of went out of the window, so I probably should have taken out the scrolls too.

-nm

EDIT: And done, the new version (1.1) is now in the first post.
EDIT (again): Also, I've added some hot tiles into 1N 3E to make the clear up quicker (1.2).

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[Last edited by navithmastero at 06-05-2013 08:08 PM]
06-05-2013 at 07:53 PM
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icon Re: The Eighth Area (+2)  
The eyes in the entrance of Top Floor respawn whenever you reenter the room, and will run through their script every they get activated.

Top Floor 1S 2E has an unintended solution:
Click here to view the secret text

Uncharted Passages 2N 2E
Click here to view the secret text


The stairs leading from the second level back to the first return the player to the start of the first level, instead of the stairs in the first level.

In my opinion, Top Floors 1N 3E was a little... weird. In my solution, the snake went completely unused, and I just killed all the roaches myself, without the hot tiles. Also, I hate secret walls being used for anything except hiding secrets. This opinion is not universal, but I would recommend replacing the secret walls with broken walls.

There is no room at Uncharted Passages 2N 3E, so I will assume you meant 1N 3E. I really enjoyed that room, actually. It was perfectly lynchpinish, I thought.

Great work so far. I am really enjoying this hold. Keep it up!

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06-06-2013 at 12:36 AM
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navithmastero
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icon Re: The Eighth Area (+1)  
Update,

Here's what's happened post-v1.2.

v1.3

Elfstone suggested I added an extra couple of checkpoints 1N, 2E, so there is now one at (16, 22) and (14, 14).

v1.4

Thanks to 12th Archivist, you now have to use the Goblin in 1S, 2E, and I think also Unchartered Passages 2N 2E.

Also, the eyes in the entrance should now disappear, and the stairs in Unchartered Passages now go to the stairs in Top Floor, also, there is now a crumbly wall, rather than a secret room in 1N, 3W.

-nm

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[Last edited by navithmastero at 06-06-2013 06:59 AM]
06-06-2013 at 06:58 AM
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Shendy
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icon Re: The Eighth Area (+1)  
Comments below, secret tagged because they might spoil the puzzle.
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[Last edited by Shendy at 06-06-2013 02:25 PM]
06-06-2013 at 02:18 PM
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navithmastero
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icon Re: The Eighth Area (+1)  
Shendy wrote:
Comments below, secret tagged because they might spoil the puzzle.
Click here to view the secret text

Thanks for the comments. :)

-I realise now that I used 'End' rather than 'End when killed' with those eyes, thanks for pointing it out, it's fixed now.

-If the character is someone/thing other than Beethro, trapdoors aren't dropped unless a power token is stepped on.

-Fixed that backtrackability in 1S, 3E.

-In 1N, 3E, that isn't the intended solution. ;) Good spot though, (I think) it's fixed now.

-The intended solution was to use the Goblin to activate the pressure plate, but I think I'll change that room

All of these issues (except for the final point) has been fixed in the most recent version (1.5).

-nm

EDIT (just read Shendy's post below): D'oh! (Fixed now).

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[Last edited by navithmastero at 06-06-2013 07:41 PM]
06-06-2013 at 06:41 PM
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Shendy
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icon Re: The Eighth Area (0)  
Secret tagged just in case...
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[Last edited by Shendy at 06-06-2013 06:52 PM : Added comments]
06-06-2013 at 06:48 PM
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navithmastero
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File: TEA Top Floor 1S1E Victory.demo (990 bytes)
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icon Re: The Eighth Area (0)  
Update! (v1.6)

Top Floor: 1S, 1W has been changed, to fix an unintended solution that made the room easier. The intended solution is attached in demo-form.

Uncharted Passages has changed names to Flooded Passages. Also, 2N, 2W has been changed, it now has some aumtlich in it. :P Also, 2N, 1E has an aumtlich and golem puzzle.

Hope you enjoy! :)

-nm

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06-06-2013 at 11:13 PM
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Shendy
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06-07-2013 at 07:21 AM
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navithmastero
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Shendy wrote:
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:facepalm:

Unchartered Passages (It seems that you haven't changed the level name in the hold file, so I'll use this name)

I'm certain I changed that. :? (If not, I'll update this tonight.)

Unchartered Passages 2N1E: Is the intended solution to put both golems on two of the pressure plates and let the aumtlich press on the third, or is it to kill one of the golems at (23,9) and freeze the aumtlich when it is at (23,8) so the player can pass through the second door? (I've attached a demo of the second solution I mentioned)

The intended solution is
Click here to view the secret text


-nm

EDIT: The hold file has been updated.

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[Last edited by navithmastero at 06-07-2013 10:58 PM : Reformatting]
06-07-2013 at 01:15 PM
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Red-XIII
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icon Re: The Eighth Area (+1)  
Hello :) I just started playing this and it's really fun so far, here's some comments:

Top Floor:

Entrance / 1E / 2E / 3E / 4E : Good increasing difficulty
1N1E / 1N5E : Good for beginners
1N4E: I liked this but I'm not sure how beginners will react to this.
1S3E: Nice one.
1S1E: I really liked this room, probably my favourite of the level.
1S2E: I didn't used the goblin so I guess it's an US?
1N2E: Here I didn't used the lonely queen, is it intended?
1N3E: Another nice room.

Keep going on this hold, it's very neat and relaxing :)

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06-08-2013 at 06:04 PM
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navithmastero
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Red-XIII wrote:
Hello :) I just started playing this and it's really fun so far, here's some comments:

Top Floor:

Entrance / 1E / 2E / 3E / 4E : Good increasing difficulty
1N1E / 1N5E : Good for beginners
1N4E: I liked this but I'm not sure how beginners will react to this.
1S3E: Nice one.
1S1E: I really liked this room, probably my favourite of the level.
1S2E: I didn't used the goblin so I guess it's an US?
1N2E: Here I didn't used the lonely queen, is it intended?
1N3E: Another nice room.

Keep going on this hold, it's very neat and relaxing :)

Thanks for the comments! :D

Yes, you don't need to use the lonely queen, it just uses up a few turns, so that roaches are already spawned and so when one chases the queen, they don't accidentally get the solution.

Could you give a demo of your solution to 1S, 2E please? ;)

Anyhow, glad you liked it! :)

-nm



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06-08-2013 at 08:03 PM
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icon Re: The Eighth Area (+1)  
Sure, there it is.
I actually like this solution more than the intended way :)

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06-08-2013 at 08:24 PM
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navithmastero
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icon Re: The Eighth Area (0)  
Since that solution is rather obscure, I think I'll leave it as it.

-nm

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06-08-2013 at 08:31 PM
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icon Re: The Eighth Area (0)  
If you kill the roach in Flooded Passages: The Entrance, then go up the stairs back to Top Floor, when you return to Flooded Passages you can't go East anymore since the roach is gone.

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06-09-2013 at 07:28 PM
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navithmastero
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icon Re: The Eighth Area (0)  
*Semi-bump*

As some of you may have realized from my lack of activity recently, I haven't really been active on the forum for the last few weeks, however, I've still been working on this hold. So, here's a *big* update.

--Version 2.0--

-In flooded passages, I've polished it off, but there is still one room with nothing in there.
-There is a cutscene level after flooded passages.
-There is also a short guard level. I'd like to know your opinion on the difficulty of the guard level (is it too hard).
-I'd also like to know what people think of the briar level.

-nm

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[Last edited by navithmastero at 07-28-2013 01:08 PM]
07-28-2013 at 01:07 PM
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07-29-2013 at 02:51 PM
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navithmastero
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Shendy wrote:
- Flooded Passages 1N: I think that the player will be stuck if they returned to this room from the secret room.

- Escape Artist: No, I don't think this level is too hard. I liked 2S and 3S1E.

- Inner Chambers 1E: Shouldn't there be a power token, so that the trapdoors fall?
*Update*
--Version 2.2--

-1N problem fixed.
-1E problem fixed.
-Thanks to Shendy!

-nm

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[Last edited by navithmastero at 07-30-2013 05:11 PM : actually done it this time]
07-29-2013 at 06:34 PM
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Shendy
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07-30-2013 at 01:30 PM
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icon Re: The Eighth Area (0)  
I assume, leaving Top Floor 3E through the secret walls is an US, right?

Flooded passages, 2E: What is the purpose of the pressure plate at 8, 18?

Flooded passages 2N, 1E: very nice!

Flooded passages 1N: Perhaps you may move the check mark at 30, 16 to 29,14 - for the optimizers :)

Escape Artists 1S: I didn't notice the roaches are placed on bridges. It is easy to kill them with the sword.

Escape Artists 2S: A very nice room :)

Escape Artists 3S: The lights on the bridge are difficult so see - as in other rooms. I am 58 and my eyes are not that good :(

I am afraid I can't see how to solve Inner chambers 1E. In order to kill the eye at 33,14 somebody must step on 33, 17. Who?

adS



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[Last edited by adS at 07-31-2013 10:45 PM]
07-31-2013 at 05:12 PM
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Top floor Entrance.

When I leave the room without killing all monsters and re-enter from the East the eyes (characters) have disappeared.

adS


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07-31-2013 at 11:32 PM
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navithmastero
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adS wrote:
I assume, leaving Top Floor 3E through the secret walls is an US, right?

Flooded passages, 2E: What is the purpose of the pressure plate at 8, 18?

Flooded passages 2N, 1E: very nice!

Flooded passages 1N: Perhaps you may move the check mark at 30, 16 to 29,14 - for the optimizers :)

Escape Artists 1S: I didn't notice the roaches are placed on bridges. It is easy to kill them with the sword.

Escape Artists 2S: A very nice room :)

Escape Artists 3S: The lights on the bridge are difficult so see - as in other rooms. I am 58 and my eyes are not that good :(

I am afraid I can't see how to solve Inner chambers 1E. In order to kill the eye at 33,14 somebody must step on 33, 17. Who?

adS


--Updated in Version 2.3--

-Yes, leaving via the secret is unintended, and is fixed now.
-I've taken out the door and pressure plate as they are not needed.
-Could you send me a demo of you doing EA: 1S please (so I can see your solution).
-Yes, the lights are difficult to see, but the colour of the light, combined with the colour of the bridge does make it hard to see. The slight difference is enough though, to work as mood lighting.

-nm

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[Last edited by navithmastero at 08-18-2013 10:01 PM]
08-01-2013 at 09:49 PM
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navithmastero wrote:


-Could you send me a demo of you doing EA: 1S please (so I can see your solution).

attached

-Yes, the lights are difficult to see, but the colour of the light, combined with the colour of the bridge does make it hard to see. The slight difference is enough though, to work as mood lighting.

My fault - sorry. I had turned off alpha blending.

adS


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08-04-2013 at 10:14 PM
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navithmastero wrote:



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-nm
?????
See the attachement.

adS


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08-04-2013 at 10:45 PM
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navithmastero
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--TSS Update--

This hold has been updated (a lot).

-Added a greater backstory.
-Fixed all issues with stairs, cut scenes and moving to the next level entrance.
-Changed some of the rooms, as well as adding more rooms.

Download it from the first post.

-nm

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[Last edited by navithmastero at 06-25-2014 06:13 PM]
06-25-2014 at 06:12 PM
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First three levels complete :)

The speech in Prologue:Entrance repeats if you visit 1W before activating the cutscene. There are a couple of punctuation mistakes, but if you want me to help with the text, I'd rather do that in one go when everything else is finished.

Top Floor is mostly a nice set of easyish linchpin rooms, with a simple introduction room for each monster used. The only rooms I thought had problems were:

1N3E - Trivially solved by flooding the room with roaches, which seems to be the solution the scroll hints at. Don't put scrolls on tunnels, as it hides which direction they go.

1N4E - My solution was to get both the snake and roach stuck in the lower area, but it took a lot of trial and error to pull this off, and I spent a lot of time looking for a good killing spot before finding this approach. Did I just miss the "obvious" solution?

Secret room - The eastern roach will move as soon as each door opens, so you can just kill the southern goblins as soon as they're free, then walk between the pressure plates to bring the roach to the hot tile. I assume something more complicated was intended.

Icy Caverns is more of the same, but even better. I particularly like the linchpins in 1N3E and 2N1E. 1N2E was a fun manipulation room. The level also has a very nice unified aesthetic design.

Both levels lack a checkpoint in the exit room.

The cutscenes are excellent, and I enjoyed the first guard puzzle. Escape Artist 2S, however, was really frustrating trial and error until I hit on a solution.

The cutscene after 2S ends the hold.

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 06-27-2014 02:55 AM]
06-27-2014 at 12:22 AM
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navithmastero
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Nuntar wrote:
The cutscene after 2S ends the hold.

Yeah, it isn't meant to. For some reason, everything which goes to a level entrance was changed to 'End Hold' when I transferred this hold to TSS. I think this is probably a bug, but I'm not sure. I've fixed this in v4.2 and I'll update the first post. I don't have time to fix the other issues right now so I'll do so sometime this evening.

-nm

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06-27-2014 at 07:59 AM
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icon Re: The Eighth Area (+1)  
Well I tried it, it's pretty good, but I'd like to say something about the Description:

Description: Beginner-Level Hold
Well, it really, really, REALLY, does not live up to the description. In fact, I find it difficult, nearly impossible, which is something coming from someone who finished things like Training Hall in TSS. So no, this is most certainly not beginner-level or beginner-friendly. Sorry if I sound harsh, but the description does not match the hold.

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06-27-2014 at 10:54 PM
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azb wrote:
Well I tried it, it's pretty good, but I'd like to say something about the Description:

Description: Beginner-Level Hold
Well, it really, really, REALLY, does not live up to the description. In fact, I find it difficult, nearly impossible, which is something coming from someone who finished things like Training Hall in TSS. So no, this is most certainly not beginner-level or beginner-friendly. Sorry if I sound harsh, but the description does not match the hold.

No, you don't sound harsh. In fact I was thinking about whether to change it myself. To me, it feels like as I continue to build, regardless of whether I'm trying to make the rooms not too tricky they seem to come out as more tough, and this is particularly true as I continued through the levels, especially once I started to experiment with the guards and the briars. Initially, it was meant to be aimed at novices, but I suppose it isn't anymore.

I'll change the description to something more appropriate of the difficulty level, probably something more like 'Medium-Level', as it's nowhere near the difficulty of a typical Larry-hold, but it is more tough than beginner.

-nm

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06-27-2014 at 11:10 PM
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