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cheese obsessive
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icon Video game design (+1)  
So I definitely haven't been around much lately...but I think I'm back for a while now. Recently quit college (don't worry I just landed an IT job that makes going to college irrelevant), so now I have more free time than I used to have.

While I was at school, I came up with an idea of a video game that I'd like to develop. I'd prefer not going into any details, but it's a 1st-person action/adventure/scifi/puzzle/RPG of sorts. (because that helps you know EXACTLY what kind of game I'm talking about...)

Game design has always been an interest of mine, but I've never had the time to do anything about it until recently (and I regret not going to college for it). Since last summer, me, my brother, and a few friends have been tirelessly brainstorming writing and drawing out some of my ideas. We have pages and pages and pages of notes about game mechanics, screen layouts, items, enemies, cut-scene scripts, stories, characters, everything.

But now we are at the point where we are saying "OK, what do we even DO with all this?"

None of us have any experience in this field (I took Java in high school and one of our projects was a text-RPG...hardly counts), and I'm sure there are a few of you out there who have designed a game before. I have all these ideas down on paper, but no idea on where to even begin to implement them. Where do you even start?

With all the sketches I have down, I feel like designing this game I am envisioning will be an overwhelming process for 5 people with no game design experience...so we'd all like to learn the process as well. But again, none of us really know where to start with learning game design either.

tl;dr - If you are a prospective video game designer, how do you learn the process, and where do you go after the drawing board?
01-07-2010 at 10:05 PM
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mrimer
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I started designing games when I was a wee lad of ten or so. I started programming things in BASIC, because at the time that was the only programming language I knew at even a rudimentary level. I learned LOGO after that and made a few simple graphical games. And, if you've never taken a serious programming course in LOGO, then believe you me, it's much more than turtle plotting! I learned Pascal after that and made a few tile-based games like my "'Merican Adventure" with Nethack-like graphics, that you can still find on my homepage. Then I learned C. And by then, hardware and software evolved to the point where I learned that game programming is not so much about what language you use, as what tools you use. For instance, using SDL as your graphics+event handling engine is okay, but it's pretty low-level and we had to build up all our UI widgets (buttons, scroll bars, dialog boxes, etc.) from scratch. But that can be cool too, if that's your thing.

So, if you want to just tinker around with programming for a while, as a hobby in itself or to grow your skill set, spend some time on it just having fun and learning new things. But if you want to get right into prototyping game mechanics and content, try using a Game Maker type tool or something that does all of the low-level program work for you. That's would I'd suggest to start.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 01-11-2010 08:08 PM]
01-08-2010 at 05:34 AM
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Tim
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Nowadays, there are actually schools that you can attend to learn game design. If I understand it correctly, you can then end up as a game designer who can make documents all day.

If you want to become one then you should go and find a local (arts) college. It's probably the easiest way.

On the other hand, if you want to build games yourself, then you should go and get something easy like Gamemaker and play with it. Things like SDL, C sound fun but they are out of your reach right now.

Another way is to ask other people to do it for you. In that case, don't expect any serious help you if you are not willing to disclose your (obviously great) idea. See it this way, if I was a programmer, would I choose an unknown great idea above a known great idea from someone else?

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01-08-2010 at 05:46 PM
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Penwielder
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I often choose to start with the gameplay itself, partially to see if the idea really has much potential and if I can really pull it off. If you've ever played a really crummy modern video game, you know what I'm talking about--effort had to be put into it, but the gameplay just wasn't that good; perhaps a particular strategy was too dominant (whether in a puzzle or action game, seeing as the only difference, arguably, is pace). Granted, it can be hard, if the gameplay does turn out amazingly well, to force yourself to go back and make the actual title screen and menus, but I still recommend this approach.

I've never done anything 3D, and I never plan to--it brings up even more issues with hardware, which are my least favorite because the solutions are so inconsistent. Not to mention that I don't exactly have a master's degree in vector calculus.

Despite that, my biggest problem has always been collision detection. I can't stand the stuff. You can tell me how to do it, but I'll have heard it before, and I'll tell you again how slow it is.

My biggest project was a step- and square-based puzzle game written in SmallBASIC on my palm pilot in spare time. It featured a guy (an x) on a tiny 8x8 board whose job was to eliminate multicolored circles ('balls', I call them). Each color of circle would shrink under different conditions, sometimes involving other ones. The whole thing was done with vector graphics, four buttons, and a processor of 300 MHz. Ironically, the most common complaint about it (from the few times I've shown it around) is that it... is... hard!

After that, I moved on to learning Python. That particular language can be awkward at first, but some bits are indispensable--lists, for instance, which C programmers would appreciate quite a bit. It's relatively easy, too, and fast compared to others of its level. One downside which often turns people away too soon is that it comes with no libraries for any kind of display besides its own output window. If you go 2D, Pygame is a good choice.

For the moment, my advice is to plunk yourself down with a good book on some language or other and see just what it is that you're really getting yourself into. You say you've made a text-based RPG? Depending on how well you were taught the uses of subroutines/functions at the time, that experience could be much more valuable than you think.

On a sidenote, I've always had a degree of contempt for Gamemaker, but I've never really looked at it. Hearing someone sane recommend it makes me wonder if I should at least glance at it... nevertheless, if it doesn't require coding (which is the impression I got, based on who told me about it), it doesn't count as programming to me. And if it doesn't, you can bet it's limited.

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01-08-2010 at 11:16 PM
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Oneiromancer
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Now that there are a few serious answers given, I can say...
cheese obsessive wrote:
I'd prefer not going into any details, but it's a 1st-person action/adventure/scifi/puzzle/RPG of sorts. (because that helps you know EXACTLY what kind of game I'm talking about...)
Deus Ex?

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01-09-2010 at 12:52 AM
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NiroZ
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I know nothing of videogame design, but I find it very helpful when I have a 'BRILLIANT' idea to ask myself, why hasn't anybody done it already? In your case, you might want to do marketing research as see if your idea is feasible, how did similar products fare? (considering how much work it would be to simply get to the stage where you can build it)

And, not to be a negative nelle, but you might want to see past examples of videogame mod's and developer's who started with a brilliant idea, only to end up with a mediocre product, in order to understand what not to do.
01-09-2010 at 01:19 AM
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cheese obsessive
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Thanks everyone for their input so far!

One of the things I discussed with my "team" was if it was possible to use an existing game engine to write the game (Source, Unreal, etc)...of course, none of us know if it would be easier to do this or code from scratch...with my high school java experience I'm familiar with the basic logic of computer languages (just don't know each language's syntax and functions), so would that be enough for me to figure out how to work an existing game engine?

I left college for many reasons and at this point I have no intentions of going back...but with that said, I'd still consider part-time online classes. Does anyone know of any good online classes (or even just some documentation) on game design?

My "team" definitely has the DIY attitude and we'd love to develop this all ourselves, but we decided worst-case scenario we'd pitch the idea to a developer. Do developers regularly get games pitched to them?
01-09-2010 at 09:50 PM
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Banjooie
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Taking a motor and attaching wheels and a steering mechanism

Building a motor, wheels, and a steering mechanism, and making it all work

one of these two is easier than the other

that is to say: use a published engine to start.
01-10-2010 at 07:15 AM
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eb0ny
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Using an existing engine is a better solution of the two. Other people have spent countless hours writing, testing and fixing code you would have to work on yourself and there is no reason why you shouldn't use their work. Plus, working on your own engine takes time and it will take your efforts away from the "game" part of your game. Compare the first and second Assassin's Creed games: in the first game developers concentrated on the game engine and gameplay suffered in the process. They reused the engine in the second game and could concentrate on actual gameplay with great results.

Then again, there is no better way to learn how a game engine works other than by building one. Another reason for writing your own engine I can think of is unavailability of some features in existing free engines (see Overgrowth engine, for example).

In the end it comes down to how much time you are willing to sink into your project. You can make your own engine for the sake of ambition, but by using an existing engine you save yourself a good deal of headaches.

Just my 0.02 greckles.

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01-10-2010 at 12:02 PM
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mrimer
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Hmm...I must throw in the standard disclaimer:

Making an RPG as your first gaming effort can be hazardous to your health.

Seriously, RPGs are always *much* more complex to develop than games in virtually any other genre. Be prepared for a hard road ahead that will require a will of iron and tenacity like nails to get your project off the ground.
Penwielder wrote:
I've always had a degree of contempt for Gamemaker, but I've never really looked at it. Hearing someone sane recommend it makes me wonder if I should at least glance at it... nevertheless, if it doesn't require coding (which is the impression I got, based on who told me about it), it doesn't count as programming to me. And if it doesn't, you can bet it's limited.
Yeah, I guess I didn't really mean "game programming", but rather simply game making. I haven't used it myself, but seeing efforts like IMMORTAL DEFENSE, the JUMPER games (or anything by mattmakesgames.com), etc. that were made via GameMaker or some related tool tells me that it has adequate room to implement or at least prototype many different marketable (at least on an indie level) gaming concepts.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 01-11-2010 08:19 PM]
01-11-2010 at 08:18 PM
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slimm tom
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Nuntar wrote:
You may be interested in this: http://www.train2game.com/ but only if you're serious about wanting to go somewhere with your ideas, since you would have to invest quite a bit of money into taking the course.
I would stay miles from that site if I were you. A quick google search reveals the site is nothing more than a scam, and the course is put together by a few (already freely available) tutorials from the internet. But it does cost 4700 pounds.

link: http://www.ukresistance.co.uk/2009/09/train2game-outed-by-investigative-reader/
The videos don't work, but there's some interesting info in the comments section.

Also, a lawsuit by this company against Google because googling train2game reveals pages where people post their (bad) experiences with train2game.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/17/google_mis_libel_case/

[Last edited by slimm tom at 01-13-2010 02:05 PM]
01-12-2010 at 07:48 PM
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cheese obsessive
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So I remember reading some slashdot articles about a few game engines being released for free recently. I decided to download Unity (Only mac-compatible game engine I could find...my PC needs some new parts) and I'm likin' what I'm seeing so far. Fooling around building walls and objects right now, and I wrote a simple script with Java that turns a light on and off (The extent of my Java skills!) Has anyone ever had any experience with Unity? If so, think it's a good place to start? I'm picking it up pretty quickly with all the tutorials and documentation it has.

I am fully aware of how hard it is to create an RPG...even the text-based one my high school java class built got pretty complicated and took us most of the semester. I'm thinking about trying to create a short, (relatively) simple isometric-view RPG first just to figure out how to implement my game mechanics that I so studiously worked out on paper...would that be a waste of time/too ambitious of a learning project, or do y'all out there who designed games before think it would be a good learning experience?

Any links to those "free" tutorials on train2game would be appreciated too.

01-13-2010 at 02:08 AM
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Nuntar
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slimm tom wrote:
I would stay miles from that site if I were you. A quick google search reveals the site is nothing more than a scam, and the course is put together by a few (already freely available) tutorials from the internet. But it does cost 4700 pounds.
I'm not sure what the truth of it is any more -- I did a little research myself and I found rumours about it being a scam but I also found discussion forums where these rumours were apparently rebuffed. So I just don't know :( But I'm sorry for posting it.

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01-16-2010 at 09:13 PM
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slimm tom
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Nuntar wrote:
I'm not sure what the truth of it is any more -- I did a little research myself and I found rumours about it being a scam but I also found discussion forums where these rumours were apparently rebuffed. So I just don't know :( But I'm sorry for posting it.
Yeah, I was a little confused myself, but I found out that the parent company of the site was involved in numerous scams in the past. (I can't remember the name of the company) That was the proof I needed really.
01-16-2010 at 10:57 PM
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Tim
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cheese obsessive wrote:
Has anyone ever had any experience with Unity? If so, think it's a good place to start? I'm picking it up pretty quickly with all the tutorials and documentation it has.
I believe that with your current experience (and using a Mac), anything is as good as any.
I'm thinking about trying to create a short, (relatively) simple isometric-view RPG first just to figure out how to implement my game mechanics that I so studiously worked out on paper...would that be a waste of time/too ambitious of a learning project, or do y'all out there who designed games before think it would be a good learning experience?
Logicians and linguists would probably tell you that the answer to your question would be "Yes." Instead, I'll just say "Yes. Both."

Now that I think about it, if you goal is only to test some game mechanics, then you could try DROD:RPG (assuming that you already have it). There are probably some other engines that can be used, but unfortunately none of them is available for a Mac.

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01-22-2010 at 01:35 AM
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cheese obsessive
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So I figured out how to make a FPS-view camera attached to a rectangle-for-a-body move around on a plane and make cubes fall out of the sky, so far so good!

Does anyone know of any real good (not-focused-on-web-design) javascript tutorials/books/etc? That's all I can find on google and I can't find any of my java notes from high school so I'm naturally getting a D- in scripting right now.

...and I'd try to work on my game mechanics in the DROD engine except the "toNonGridBasedFirstPersonView" script doesn't seem to work.
01-27-2010 at 10:26 PM
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b0rsuk
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cheese obsessive wrote:
I am envisioning will be an overwhelming process for 5 people with no game design experience

Don't you try that. Don't do anything remotely ambitious as your first project. I have a friend with that sort of attitude and he doesn't seem to be getting anywhere. The internet is choke-full of ambitious game projects that just die. The website looks promising, more promising and eventually silently ceases to update. Another cobweb.

---------------
Option A: modding computer games

If you start with modding, you get to use high quality stuff for free, basically. You don't have to deal with low-level stuff. FPS games are especially good for modding. But be aware FPS gamers are allergic to below-average graphics and it takes exceptional gameplay to intrigue them. Most people will dismiss your work instantly upon seeing your screenshots.

Another great game for modding: Notrium, a 2D topdown sci-fi suvival shooter. It doesn't even have a proper language, yet you can do stuff like monsters being scared away by campfires at night only.

The downside of this is the scarcity of genres available for modding. Easily moddable games outside of FPS genre are very rare.

Option B (recommended): Go to your local fantasy/scifi/roleplaying club and tweak board and card games.

People playing board/card games are a lot more open to games with below average presentation. They often modify official rulesets and play their variants. They value games for gameplay, whereas mainstream video gamers often treat it as a substitute for cinema. Board/card players actually discuss rules, and suggesting a change doesn't get you called a whiner. And unlike with video games, it's easy to get gameplay feedback. If your changes to existing games or completely new games are liked, then you know you have what it takes to be a good game designer.

Card games are especially easy to modify. Simple and very flexible. You can buy 50 card sleeves for around $3. Put pieces of paper with modified rules inside.

Card games worth trying:
Citadels, Dominion, Magic: The Gathering, many others. With M:TG, it's best to get hold of old, used cards because otherwise it will cost as much as cocaine. M:TG will make you re-examine apparently boring cards. Citadels very strongly rewards anticipating your opponents. Dominion is just revolutionary in terms of game mechanics and very varied.

Donwside: you won't take option B seriously if you're more mainstream than you think.

Option C:

Contribute to a successful existing project.

This can be a lot of fun, but it takes time to find an interesting project (not all developers can be reasoned with !). It tests your communication and debate skills. Fi

Downside: you will see many of your ideas implemented differently, with modifications you may not like. Innovative suggestions are least likely to be implemented. You likely won't get much credit, and no credit ever in your lifetime if you contribute to a commercial game. Not even a thank you.

Bottom line:
Prove your worth as a game designer with very low budget first. If your very low budget games are popular despite low quality components/artwork/models/textures, you can think about working in a team.

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[Last edited by b0rsuk at 01-30-2010 05:39 PM]
01-28-2010 at 06:00 PM
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cheese obsessive
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Hey, awesome post man.

b0rsuk wrote:
cheese obsessive wrote:
I am envisioning will be an overwhelming process for 5 people with no game design experience

Don't you try that. Don't do anything remotely ambitious as your first project. I have a friend with that sort of attitude and he doesn't seem to be getting anywhere. The internet is choke-full of ambitious game projects that just die. The website looks promising, more promising and eventually silently ceases to update. Another cobweb.

I definitely want to avoid going down this road...I didn't mean to imply that we are just gonna dive right into this huge project I have...that's why I'm trying to put together a simple iso-view RPG first to see if I can actually code some of my mechanics into a game and then go from there. I've been formulating this whole concept since the 7th grade so it would probably hurt me the most if I just got bored with it and gave up...I haven't so far, don't worry!

Option A: modding computer games

If you start with modding, you get to use high quality stuff for free, basically. You don't have to deal with low-level stuff. FPS games are especially good for modding. But be aware FPS gamers are allergic to below-average graphics and it takes exceptional gameplay to intrigue them. Most people will dismiss your work instantly upon seeing your screenshots.

Another great game for modding: Notrium, a 2D topdown sci-fi suvival shooter. It doesn't even have a proper language, yet you can do stuff like monsters being scared away by campfires at night only.

The downside of this is the scarcity of genres available for modding. Easily moddable games outside of FPS genre are very rare.

Didn't mean to make my game sound like it's mostly FPS...it's more like "an adventure/puzzle/RPG played from the first person and your weapon just happens to be a gun"...it's no more FPS than the Metroid Prime series.

I'm not into FPS's at all (unless there is more to it than just "S"ing and shiny graphics)...so what moddable FPS's are there? This might be worth my time once I figure out how to make my mechanics work.


Option B (recommended): Go to your local fantasy/scifi/roleplaying club and tweak board and card games.

People playing board/card games are a lot more open to games with below average presentation. They often modify official rulesets and play their variants. They value games for gameplay, whereas mainstream video gamers often treat it as a substitute for cinema. Board/card players actually discuss rules, and suggesting a change doesn't get you called a whiner. And unlike with video games, it's easy to get gameplay feedback. If your changes to existing games or completely new games are liked, then you know you have what it takes to be a good game designer.

Card games are especially easy to modify. Simple and very flexible. You can buy 50 card sleeves for around $3. Put pieces of paper with modified rules inside.

Card games worth trying:
Citadels, Dominion, Magic: The Gathering, many others. With M:TG, it's best to get hold of old, used cards because otherwise it will cost as much as cocaine. M:TG will make you re-examine apparently boring cards. Citadels very strongly rewards anticipating your opponents. Dominion is just revolutionary in terms of game mechanics and very varied.

Donwside: you won't take option B seriously if you're more mainstream than you think.

Well, I have it all worked out on paper (sort of like modding a board game sans pieces?) but my problem is (outside of basic stat calculations) I can't think of a game that has anything else rules-wise in common with my idea. Not trying to sound arrogant or elitist or anything, but I don't think what I'm trying has been tried in a video game before. Or any other game for that matter.

I'm sorry I don't post more details about my concept, but it's just one of those ideas that I absolutely want to keep to myself until I get something working, I'm just a little bit paranoid about posting it on the internet is all.

Option C:

Contribute to a successful existing project.

This can be a lot of fun, but it takes time to find an interesting project (not all developers can be reasoned with !). It tests your communication and debate skills. Fi

Downside: you will see many of your ideas implemented differently, with modifications you may not like. Innovative suggestions are least likely to be implemented. You likely won't get much credit, and no credit ever in your lifetime if you contribute to a commercial game. Not even a thank you.

I love discovering obscure indie games, and yet I have only ever found one that even remotely scratches the surface of what I'm trying to do (Achron) and even that doesn't come close to my concept. So unless I stumble across a game that makes me go "holy crap that guy broke into my head and stole my game" I'd much rather take care of it myself.

Bottom line:
Prove your worth as a game designer with very low budget first. If your very low budget games are popular despite low quality components/artwork/models/textures, you can think about working in a team.

I think this is definitely my plan...if I can get my mechanics to work I'll try to develop that into a small game first before taking on the "big" project. Thanks for the advice.
01-29-2010 at 01:17 AM
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Briareos
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cheese obsessive wrote:
I'm not into FPS's at all (unless there is more to it than just "S"ing and shiny graphics)...so what moddable FPS's are there? This might be worth my time once I figure out how to make my mechanics work.
I think you might want to take a look at Prometheus, which is a free, first-person and fully mod-able (since it's based on the free Unreal Development Kit release) non-shooter AND might also remotely scratch the surface of what you're trying to do if Achron does... ;)

EDIT: Then again, UDK is only available for PC - if your PC needs new parts have you considered using Boot Camp?

(NB: I keep meaning to actually try this game but am swamped in other games, but still I thought I'd mention it...)

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[Last edited by Briareos at 01-29-2010 11:03 AM]
01-29-2010 at 11:01 AM
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cheese obsessive
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Briareos wrote:
cheese obsessive wrote:
I'm not into FPS's at all (unless there is more to it than just "S"ing and shiny graphics)...so what moddable FPS's are there? This might be worth my time once I figure out how to make my mechanics work.
I think you might want to take a look at Prometheus, which is a free, first-person and fully mod-able (since it's based on the free Unreal Development Kit release) non-shooter AND might also remotely scratch the surface of what you're trying to do if Achron does... ;)

Quantum mechanics: The video game? Yes please! Definitely gonna check this out.

Still not exactly the direction I'm taking with this game, but along with Achron these are the closest games yet. Definitely going to poke around inside of Prometheus if I can find my XP CD and then manage to get it to fit on my hard drive with <2GB left. (Just assuming OSX won't let me run anything directly off my external...correct me if I'm wrong)


01-29-2010 at 11:16 PM
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b0rsuk
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cheese obsessive wrote:
I'm not into FPS's at all (unless there is more to it than just "S"ing and shiny graphics)...so what moddable FPS's are there?

Aside from the aforementioned UDK, Quake 3 engine source code is available to everyone on GPL v2 licence. Standalone games (formerly mods) like Open Arena, Nexuiz, Tremulous, Urban Terror, Alien Arena are based on it. The engine is in C++. Not many engines are available for free with full source code.

Source Engine (Half Life 2, Portal, Left 4 Dead) is very moddable, of course. I don't know much about it.

Natural Selection 2, a game not yet released, already comes with an editor. Modding is done with Lua scripting. It's worth mentioning the game was supposed to launch last Fall. There's already a big delay, but they keep releasing updates.

Just today I've found something interesting, a project based on Sauerbraten, a curious and quite unique 3D engine (it uses octrees and manages to display crazy number of brushes at once). From the "press release":

A multiplayer 3D world in which you can play and create games

Syntensity is a 3D game platform built upon the Cube2 (Sauerbraten) Engine.

It allows you to create maps using the Cube in-game editor, and then script them using JavaScript, allowing you to rapidly pump out any game idea you can imagine. You can also use and remix existing content in the true Free Software way.

License: GNU Affero GPL v3
Scripting language: Javascript (!)

http://www.syntensity.com/toplevel/intensityengine/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8KMwU1UJmw&feature=player_embedded

Really, there are lots of moddable FPS engines available. You should pay attention to things like game's popularity (more people to try the mod), availability of source code (mod becomes standalone game).

I almost forgot about Warcraft3. The game is very, very moddable. I grew bored with vanilla Warcraft3 fairly quickly, and kept playing mods. There was great variety of them. Blizzard has recognized this and promised to make Starcraft2 even more moddable. Unless they screw something up, like introducing DRM, it's going to be great.

---
This path really works. Red Orchestra, Left 4 Dead, Team Fortress 2, Counterstrike, Natural Selection, Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, Heroes of Neverth, Demigod, and many other are mods that proved so good they were reimplemented as commercial games.

---
You may be interested in The Designer's Notebook, a column by Ernest Adams, formerly a designer at Bullfrog (Magic Carpet, Dungeon Keeper, Syndicate, Populous....). I think many of his articles are pure gold.

http://www.designersnotebook.com/Columns/columns.htm

In particular, two articles How to Get Started in the Game Industry:

http://www.designersnotebook.com/Columns/013_How_to_Get_Started/013_how_to_get_started.htm

Two quotes for you:
There's No Such Thing As A Game Designer

OK, that's an overstatement. But with one or two extremely rare exceptions, there's no such thing as a full-time game designer. [Author’s note: This was true as of 1998 when this column was written. As games have gotten larger and more complex, they have begun to need full-time game designers.] Trip Hawkins, the founder of Electronic Arts and 3DO, used to say that there would never be a job titled "game designer" as his company, because everyone on the project contributed to the design of a game, and it was unfair to give one person all the credit (or the most enjoyable work).

There's another, more practical reason for this. The initial design of a game normally takes from one to three months, depending on its size and complexity. During the rest of the production cycle there are always more design decisions to be made, but not enough to devote one person to it full time. Usually the game's designer starts doing other administrative or production work once development gets under way. A company can't afford to have a person on the payroll who does nothing but design all year round.

The rare exception is someone like Sid Meier, who's so famous as a designer that he gets his name on the front of the box. But Sid has been around a long time, his games are phenomenally successful, and he has more than paid his dues. Don't think you're going to get an entry-level position in the industry as a game designer. Unless you start your own company - and can afford to pay yourself to do nothing but design - it's just not going to happen.

...and the second

If You Have A Great Idea

A lot of people write to me to say that they have a great idea for a game, but they're reluctant to tell me about it for fear that I might steal it and make a fortune that's rightfully theirs. They want to know how to get started without actually revealing the idea. I'm sorry to burst anyone's balloon here, but great ideas are a dime a dozen. The chance that you have an idea that no one else has had is vanishingly small, especially given that there are now tens of thousands of people in the industry.

A game company is not going to give you a development contract on the basis of a great idea. What a game company wants to know is: can you build it and make it great, on time and under budget? What actually counts is not the idea, but the execution. As Thomas Edison said, "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration." He didn't just sit down and invent the light bulb; he ran electricity through every single material he could get his hands on until he found one that worked - and even then he didn't really get it right, since he stopped with carbonized cotton thread. It was another guy named Coolidge who invented the modern tungsten filament bulb.

Not trying to be a jerk. By all means, pursue your passion. Study games. Finally, don't take my advice too seriously. So far, my biggest achievement is having my ideas implemented in a couple of free games, mostly Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup.

____________________________

http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20051128/adams_01.shtml

[Last edited by b0rsuk at 01-31-2010 05:54 AM]
01-30-2010 at 05:10 PM
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cheese obsessive
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b0rsuk wrote:
You may be interested in The Designer's Notebook, a column by Ernest Adams, formerly a designer at Bullfrog (Magic Carpet, Dungeon Keeper, Syndicate, Populous....). I think many of his articles are pure gold.

http://www.designersnotebook.com/Columns/columns.htm

In particular, two articles How to Get Started in the Game Industry:

http://www.designersnotebook.com/Columns/013_How_to_Get_Started/013_how_to_get_started.htm

If You Have A Great Idea

A lot of people write to me to say that they have a great idea for a game, but they're reluctant to tell me about it for fear that I might steal it and make a fortune that's rightfully theirs. They want to know how to get started without actually revealing the idea. I'm sorry to burst anyone's balloon here, but great ideas are a dime a dozen. The chance that you have an idea that no one else has had is vanishingly small, especially given that there are now tens of thousands of people in the industry.

A game company is not going to give you a development contract on the basis of a great idea. What a game company wants to know is: can you build it and make it great, on time and under budget? What actually counts is not the idea, but the execution. As Thomas Edison said, "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration." He didn't just sit down and invent the light bulb; he ran electricity through every single material he could get his hands on until he found one that worked - and even then he didn't really get it right, since he stopped with carbonized cotton thread. It was another guy named Coolidge who invented the modern tungsten filament bulb.

Not trying to be a jerk. By all means, pursue your passion. Study games. Finally, don't take my advice too seriously. So far, my biggest achievement is having my ideas implemented in a couple of free games, mostly Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup.

First of all, great articles, been reading them all week, thanks for the link.

Only thing in these articles I disagree with is "good ideas are a dime a dozen"...if they were, wouldn't there be a constantly growing huge supply of games you'd absolutely be DYING to play? Maybe I'm just hard to please, but I can't think of too many games that blow me away with their ideas and concepts. Some are just "blah", some are "hey that was cool for like an hour, now I'm bored", some (many many many) are "this is awesome but there is nothing new here, gonna beat it and call it a day" but very few leave me genuinely impressed. Or maybe they all start as a "good" idea but by the time everything is implemented it becomes more of a "meh" idea. Of course my idea of a "good idea" is "new gameplay which is also fun to play"...to me, lots of games are only one or the other.

If anyone is interested, I could type up the opening cut-scene to my game...didn't realize the whole rest of the world was as paranoid about posting on the internet as I am. I think I could use some feedback outside of my friends that say "DUUUUUDE YOU SHOULD TOTALLY SELL THIS GAME TO SQUARE/VALVE/NINTENDO/THE PRESIDENT WHEN YOURE DONE THEY'LL LOVE IT I SWEAR"...sure it's nice to hear, but maybe they're just being...friends.
02-02-2010 at 09:32 PM
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cheese obsessive wrote:
Only thing in these articles I disagree with is "good ideas are a dime a dozen" [...] I can't think of too many games that blow me away with their ideas and concepts. [...] some are "hey that was cool for like an hour, now I'm bored"
"Cool for an hour" sounds like the best-case result if you're making a game from one good idea. It beats being world-famous for fifteen minutes in my book.

To be fair here, I expect many "good ideas for a game" that are floating around the planet's brains are not actually about the actual game aspect as such. Maybe the more secretive ones are, but the ones you get to hear tend to run along the lines of "Wouldn't it be cool to have a game set in such and such an environment?" or "... with a storyline that runs thusish?", neither of which necessarily gives you a good game, or in fact any game.

Then there's "... which combines this and that kind of gameplay?". Maybe it would be cool, but it's sort of inherently derivative and has a good chance of playing worse than either of the "purer" games it robs.

But hey, what do I know. I've never made a game, and I don't even play that many. I do have a great game idea of course, but that's beside the point :D
02-03-2010 at 08:21 AM
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Znirk wrote:
cheese obsessive wrote:
Only thing in these articles I disagree with is "good ideas are a dime a dozen" [...] I can't think of too many games that blow me away with their ideas and concepts. [...] some are "hey that was cool for like an hour, now I'm bored"
"Cool for an hour" sounds like the best-case result if you're making a game from one good idea. It beats being world-famous for fifteen minutes in my book.

To be fair here, I expect many "good ideas for a game" that are floating around the planet's brains are not actually about the actual game aspect as such. Maybe the more secretive ones are, but the ones you get to hear tend to run along the lines of "Wouldn't it be cool to have a game set in such and such an environment?" or "... with a storyline that runs thusish?", neither of which necessarily gives you a good game, or in fact any game.

Then there's "... which combines this and that kind of gameplay?". Maybe it would be cool, but it's sort of inherently derivative and has a good chance of playing worse than either of the "purer" games it robs.

I think if you have one "good idea" for a game and run with it in as many directions as you can, you will have yourself a game that lasts way more than an hour. (I think Braid is the perfect example of this...simple concept, and yet I never got bored, and I'm sure if someone cranked out 400 more levels for it, it still wouldn't get boring) Too many games don't take a simple idea far enough for me.

My goal with this game is to relate as much as the story as I possibly can into the game play, and vice versa. Every aspect of gameplay isn't going to be arbitrary, it's all going to make sense in the context of the story and for me personally, those are the best video games out there. None of this "CUT TO NEW SCREEN AND TAKE TURNS FIGHTING" business, that makes no sense.

And here's the intro cutscene...I know video games aren't written like novels, but that's the easiest way for us to write it, it's probably not going to be like this in game.

Also it smells a little bit like "Portal" at the beginning, but this story gets far deeper than that, don't worry.

Click here to view the secret text


Let me know what you think of it, I could post more story if anyone]s just DYING to hear more.
02-05-2010 at 02:54 AM
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There's entirely too much in your text that can't very well be expressed in a cutscene, thoughts and descriptors.

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02-05-2010 at 05:24 PM
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Because games never have internal monologues in cutscenes, amirite?


02-06-2010 at 09:31 AM
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Thought I was being clear enough, guess not...that "cutscene" is not going to be implemented verbatim, rather, writing it way-too-descriptive so that it is easier for us to visualize...it's better to write too much and cut it down from there than not have enough.

Could you imagine kids these days actually reading that whole thing? Seriously.
02-07-2010 at 05:16 AM
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This any use?

http://joshg.wordpress.com/

or this:

http://www.lostgarden.com/index.html

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New to DROD? You may want to read this.
My Holds and Levels:
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[Last edited by Jacob at 02-07-2010 03:27 PM]
02-07-2010 at 03:03 PM
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Banjooie wrote:
Because games never have internal monologues in cutscenes, amirite?
Your general point, while valid, doesn't apply here.

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02-07-2010 at 05:12 PM
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Neither does yours. Claiming that books can't be successfully made into movies, when most movies are demonstratably based on books, is an undefendable position.

Click here to view the secret text


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Slay the living! Raise the dead!
Paint the sky in crimson red!

[Last edited by Maurog at 02-08-2010 12:15 PM]
02-08-2010 at 12:14 PM
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