Chaco
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Mace Balls

A solitary mace ball is a 5-foot-radius metal sphere with spikes all over it. It can be pushed around with a body and with a sword much like a mirror. A direct stab will not destroy it, but will instead push it forward in the expected manner (a NE stab will move it NE, a N stab will move it N, etc.)

Mace balls, unlike mirrors, can be pushed into small monsters, such as roaches, goblins, and Aumtlich and kill them much like a body kill would from a Slayer or a roach. They can even be pushed into weak edges of tarstuff (edges for tar, corners for mud, inside corners for gel) and cut them much like a sword would. (See notes below for the case of a mace ball being pushed into a golem.)

Mace balls do not reflect Aumtlich sights and merely act like walls in that they block the gaze.

A disarmed Beethro or other humanoid creature cannot wield a mace ball placed in a room and by that manner become armed.

Disarmed Mace Ball Wielders (needs more concise name)

These humanoid enemies resemble disarmed guards. When placed in a room, they use brained pathfinding to find the nearest mace ball in the room. They will move to that mace ball and, when both adjacent to and facing the mace ball, will spend 1 turn to pick it up and turn into an armed mace ball wielder. If they are adjacent to a mace ball but not facing the mace ball (such as if placed at the start of a room next to a mace ball but not facing it) they can turn and pick up the mace ball in one turn.

Once a mace ball is wielded by a wielder as a weapon, it no longer rests on the ground and may not depress pressure plates anymore.

If a wielder cannot reach any mace ball with brained pathfinding, they will stand perfectly still, much like a Stalwart who cannot find any monsters with wisp pathfinding.

Armed Mace Ball Wielders

These enemies act much like guards in that they will move in a brained manner to the player (when applicable) and attempt to kill him with their mace ball. However, when a mace ball wielder dies, the mace ball remains in the room, unlike a guard's sword. In addition, mace ball wielders prefer to kill by swinging, much like Stalwarts, unlike guards. The mace ball, when wielded, will act much like a sword would in a similar situation, except that the mace ball can still be moved like a mirror if struck with a sword (not with a body). If the mace ball is moved by an outside agency (such as a sword), the wielder automatically becomes disarmed.

Examples

(In the following diagrams, Beethro (B - body \|/- - sword) is fighting a mace ball wielder (M - body m - mace ball).)

.....
..M..
..m..
.../.
..B..
.....

In this example, if Beethro moves NW, the mace ball will be deflected and move NW. The mace-ball wielder becomes disarmed, leading to this diagram:

.....
.mM..
../..
.B...
.....
.....

Further NW moves by Beethro could seperate this mace ball from its wielder. However, direct stabs by Beethro in an attempt to move the mace ball into the wielder will be ineffective:

.....
..M..
..m..
..|..
..B..
.....

.....
.....
.M|..
.mB..
.....
.....

If disarmed, a mace ball wielder will revert to their disarmed state, and seek a mace ball so that they can become rearmed again.

Points of Contention

-I'm not entirely sure what should happen if a mace ball is pushed (or is swung by a wielder) into a rock golem. My favorite theory is that, since a gigantic 5-foot metal sphere is being swung into a comparably thin and mobile rock formation with enormous force, the golem is obliterated and does not even leave a rock pile - it is killed much like any other monster.

-I'm not entirely sure what should happen if a mace ball is pushed into a snake (particularly the head) My personal theory is that, while not being wielded, the move is resisted and an adder head or rattlesnake tail cannot be stabbed with a mace. But, when wielded, adder heads and rattlesnake tails can be stabbed as with swords.

-"Mace ball" and "mace ball wielder" are pretty unwieldy names. Maybe someone could suggest better names? "Mace" is a shorter name for the weapon, but what about the monster?

-Of course, as with all FRs, the exact mechanics and timing of the wielder and mace are up for debate. I'd like to encourage said debate.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 09-02-2008 12:56 AM]

AlternativePuzzles
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Holy....

That was the best FR I have ever seen! Very creative.

I will say that there should be many available puzzles with this idea, and many more with the mace wielder.




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zwetschenwasser
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Holy SCHMOKES! That's fantastic! Are you sure that the mace wouldn't be able to be pushed around into monsters by an unarmed Beethro? Because that would be pretty cool (as in a pressure plate puzzle to be able to reach the mace needed to destroy a horde of roaches). On snakes, I think that the mace would attract any rattlesnake or adder to move continuously around it, thereby making it easier to kill (Oooohhh. Ssssshiny masssse. Musssst ssssee it. It issss sssso beautiful.)

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Chaco
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To answer zwetschenwasser's questions:

-Yes, the mace ball can be pushed into small monsters by an unarmed player, killing them. My opinion is that it shouldn't be able to be pushed into rock giants, snake bodies, or other things like that.

-I don't think a mace ball should attract rattlesnakes or adders to itself - first of all, it doesn't do that for any other monster, and second of all, decoys already fill the niche of "attracting monsters to specific areas".

To raise two more points:

-I believe that mace ball wielders should only be able to be disarmed by the player. This is mostly to avoid huge hordes of mace ball wielders tripping themselves up by having several wielders disarm other wielders or kill other wielders by swinging their mace balls into the other mace balls.

-Since mace balls are larger than swords, I'm wondering whether two mace balls should be able to be stacked on the same tile like swords can. I'm tempted to say "no" to add another difference to swords and mirror the situation where two mirrors can't be pushed into one another and two not-being-wielded mace balls can't be pushed into one another. But then this means that rules have to be made for making moves that would cause this situation illegal. (For example, one wielder swinging his mace ball into another mace ball, or a player-role wielder swinging his mace ball into another mace ball, any time where this second mace ball (the one being impacted) can't move due to a wall in the way or such.)

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[Last edited by Chaco at 09-02-2008 01:00 AM]

zwetschenwasser
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But I like the ssslithering sssychology ssssounds

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Someone Else
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I like the idea that maces can't be stacked in the same square, even if the player is wielding one of them (Some people have argued that not being able to swing your sword is bad. But I have this to say: sometimes you can't move in a specific direction [walls, force arrows] and therefore it is flawlessly consistent).
Should adders be able to eat them? I vote no, as they are very poky, and adders probably don't like that.
Also, I think that bombs should destroy even wielded maces.

I thought of a bunch of questions too. How do they arm themselves? Do they have to spend a turn picking the ball up? Can they pick a ball up from the wrong side of a force arrow? Does briar destroy them? Can they destroy briar? Are they heavy enough to stop a platform from moving when not wielded?

Amazing idea!

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[Last edited by Someone Else at 09-02-2008 06:01 AM]

Beef Row
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Since these are extra-heavy, maybe an armed mace wielder should drop trapdoors. If this is added you should also be able to drop trapdoors by dragging a mace ball along with your sword. This would give even the ball alone a great deal of new puzzle potential.

Briar breaking on the other hand if included seems like it should be restricted to actual wielders. If they could even destroy roots, this would be a powerful advantage indeed.

Possible backstory: Briar control would give the Empire a reason to invent/deploy such forces, as they have certainly struggled with the problem of briars. Since females combatants are somewhat lacking in DROD, this could be a female combat and briar control force of the Empire, Thornmaids. And as the female counterpart to Poppies, colloquialy they would be the Roses. (Sorry to run way far off with your idea like this Chaco.)

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rman
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THE IDEA IS GREAT!!!!


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Chaco
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Beef Row wrote:
Since these are extra-heavy, maybe an armed mace wielder should drop trapdoors. If this is added you should also be able to drop trapdoors by dragging a mace ball along with your sword. This would give even the ball alone a great deal of new puzzle potential.

Good idea. I like the idea of an unarmed wielder crossing a trapdoor path and later backtracking across it with a mace, but dropping the path. I also like the idea of an armed player pushing a mace ball with his sword across a trapdoor field. (An unarmed player attempting to push a mace ball across even one trapdoor would fall into the pit the mace ball makes.)

Briar breaking on the other hand if included seems like it should be restricted to actual wielders. If they could even destroy roots, this would be a powerful advantage indeed.

That sounds like a good idea too - moving a mace ball into a square with briar (when wielded) smashes its rigid stems and branches and such into a pile of disconnected and irrelevant sticks. Wielding seems to "elevate" the mace ball and allow it to damage large things on the ground such as snake heads, rock giants, or briar.

Possible backstory: Briar control would give the Empire a reason to invent/deploy such forces, as they have certainly struggled with the problem of briars. Since females combatants are somewhat lacking in DROD, this could be a female combat and briar control force of the Empire, Thornmaids. And as the female counterpart to Poppies, colloquialy they would be the Roses. (Sorry to run way far off with your idea like this Chaco.)

No problem with running off - that's what this topic's for. I just find two issues with this speculation:

1. Maces are not a logical weapon to destroy briar with - the thought pattern does not go briar -> mace, it goes briar -> some sort of sharp blade or slicing tool, not some sort of crushing tool. I think the Empire developed maces first and found the briar application later.

-As an aside, I guess mace balls should be avoided by briar and not destroyed, much like a wall.

2. I'm of the opinion that female guards and Slayers exist, it's just that Beethro hasn't seen any yet and we don't have any portraits for them.

The rest of your speculation is fine with me

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[Last edited by Chaco at 09-02-2008 11:25 AM]

Briareos
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Chaco wrote:
(An unarmed player attempting to push a mace ball across even one trapdoor would fall into the pit the mace ball makes.)

Are you sure? A mimic right behind Beethro doesn't fall into the pit Beethro just made either...

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Chaco
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Briareos wrote:

Chaco wrote:
(An unarmed player attempting to push a mace ball across even one trapdoor would fall into the pit the mace ball makes.)

Are you sure? A mimic right behind Beethro doesn't fall into the pit Beethro just made either...

That's because Beethro moves first, creating a pit, and then the mimic moves against the pit and doesn't move.

Mirrors are moved by Beethro on his turn, and if a mace ball created a pit, it would make one right under Beethro (since by definition, a disarmed Beethro would have to move into the square the mace ball originated from), which should result in him dying. An alternative would be to move the mace ball forward but not move Beethro forward, which would result in a pit seperating the mace ball and Beethro, which seems a little weird to me.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 09-02-2008 12:25 PM]

Beef Row
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Chaco wrote:
1. Maces are not a logical weapon to destroy briar with - the thought pattern does not go briar -> mace, it goes briar -> some sort of sharp blade or slicing tool, not some sort of crushing tool. I think the Empire developed maces first and found the briar application later.

2. I'm of the opinion that female guards and Slayers exist, it's just that Beethro hasn't seen any yet and we don't have any portraits for them.

1. Thats a good point. I guess I've been picturing the spikes as more bladelike.

2. Female guards do make sense, and this wouldn't preclude female members of the Poppies, I was just suggesting that this is an elite group that is all female (though I'm kind of assuming that if there are female Poppies they are at least a bit less common than male Poppies).

Female slayers I'm not so sure about because Also I'm not 100% sure Slayers have a true gender at all, though the ones we've seen certainly appear more male than female.

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[Last edited by Beef Row at 09-02-2008 12:29 PM]

zex20913
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I'm really liking this idea and all of its facets.

Trapdoor dropping, briar killing, monster killing, mirror movability...it's like...5,000 feature requests in one.

Another addition--it's so heavy that platforms can't move if a mace ball is lying on it.

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Someone Else
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But if it's wielded, somehow it becomes light enough for you to be able to move the platform.

NiroZ
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So how big is this mace? 1 square, 2x2 squares, 5x5 squares? At first I misread 5f to be 5 squares, which was an interesting picture.

Chaco
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One tile in DROD is five feet by five feet. The mace takes up one tile, just like all other weapons.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 09-08-2008 10:54 AM]

Moo
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Innnteresting
Is it a (huge?) spiky ball, or an actual mace (a stick with a spiky ball on the end)?
If its the latter.. Pushing it around would be a bit odd.. And if its the former.. how can it be wielded?

Another idea.. if its a big ball (spiked or not), it could maybe continue rolling, one square per turn maybe, once pushed, until it hits something...

Syntax
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Fun idea.

As to snakes, I think it could be interesting if the Mace Ball killed all snakes if pushed onto the head (adders would not eat them even if they wanted to move on to them) - *However*, as the Mace Ball squishes only the snake's head, it's body should remain as a "wall".

Could make some interesting puzzles where cutting the snake to size, manipulating it and squishing it at the right time would solve the room.

zex20913
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Now Syntax...think about that. Do we really want to give Larrymurk that type of a tool?

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Briareos
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zex20913 wrote:
Now Syntax...think about that. Do we really want to give Larrymurk that type of a tool?

Well, I can't see why Syntax would pass up the opportunity at getting yet another #1 score, so - probably yes?

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Jatopian
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Syntax wrote:
Could make some interesting puzzles where cutting the snake to size, manipulating it and squishing it at the right time would solve the room.

That word, "interesting". It does not mean the same thing as "frustrating".

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Someone Else
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Last time I checked the forum definition, you were wrong, Jatopian.

Monkey
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*pulls out forum dictionary*

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Beef Row
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As far as snakes go, I think it would be more interesting (and less frustrating) if it blocked serpents even while wielded (because it's so big), but likewise could not be put over a serpent (also because it's so big).

Then you'd have a weapon that:
1) Can deflect any serpent.
2) Can kill red serpents (by trapping) but can't kill adders and rattlesnakes.

I'm not if it would be better if trying to move a maceball over a snake simply bumped and failed to move(possibly frustrating in a serpent heavy room), or if bumping it into a serpent would drop the maceball(possibly obscure, but would make it simpler to manipulate multiple maceballs, and make it easier to move near serpents.)

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Syntax
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Awww come on guys...

I'm sure everyone thought goblins and WWs were frustrating back in 2006. Now though, everyone loves them! Hell, everyone loves Briar too; now that we've come to understand its wanton needs. Queen spawned roaches' movement order is a given. Aumtlich are our favourite duvet and Gel has become a toothpaste.

I think squishing a carefully placed snake would seem easy in the long run (and fun). It would also fit in perfectly with this FR.

Jatopian
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Wraithwings and movement order still suck, sorry.

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Banjooie
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No, wraithwings and movement order are still terrible.

zwetschenwasser
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Gel is my worst nightmare. In my dreams it wraps around me and strangles the juice out of my soul.

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rman
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zwetschenwasser wrote:
Gel is my worst nightmare. In my dreams it wraps around me and strangles the juice out of my soul.

Then you've overplayed Rasaras Archipelago.

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zwetschenwasser
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How dare you mention that demonic level!


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