Odd briar behavior

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zex20913
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Odd briar behavior (+1)

Briar root can grow backwards over force arrows. This is inconsistent with everything else in the game, so I thought it should be mentioned.

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04-05-2007 at 12:22 AM

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Kevin_P86
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Re: Odd briar behavior (0)

Like this?

..>BBB
..>BRB
..>BBB

In this case it doesn't grow over the arrows...?

For example, in this room:
Image:

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The top-right roots don't expand until the arrows are rotated appropriately.

Unless you are referring to briar that is only connected to a root through backwards-pointing force arrows. However, in this case I think the current behaviour is the intuitive behaviour.

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[Last edited by Kevin_P86 at 04-05-2007 07:22 AM]

04-05-2007 at 12:30 AM

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zex20913
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File: Briars and arrows.hold (774 bytes)
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License: Public Domain

Re: Odd briar behavior (+1)

Description of what I'm talking about attached.

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04-05-2007 at 03:28 AM

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coppro
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Re: Odd briar behavior (0)

He's saying that brairs can grow opposite force arrows that they're on.

04-05-2007 at 03:39 AM

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Kevin_P86
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Re: Odd briar behavior (0)

Ah - when a root in on the arrow, not the briar.

In which case, yes - this is inconsistent.

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04-05-2007 at 07:22 AM

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Briareos
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Re: Odd briar behavior (+1)

zex20913 wrote:
Briar root can grow backwards over force arrows. This is inconsistent with everything else in the game, so I thought it should be mentioned.

But is it really? A mother/roach queen on an arrow will happily spawn tar babies/roaches on both sides...

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04-05-2007 at 08:21 AM

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zex20913
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Re: Odd briar behavior (0)

Good point. Still, I feel that it's counter-intuitive. Maybe what we've thought of as roach queens for so long are actually roach-egg-summoners, so arrows don't effect spawn, since the spell calls for an egg in all available squares adjacent to the R-E-S... -_-

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04-05-2007 at 12:54 PM

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mrimer
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Re: Odd briar behavior (0)

zex20913 wrote:
Good point. Still, I feel that it's counter-intuitive. Maybe what we've thought of as roach queens for so long are actually roach-egg-summoners, so arrows don't effect spawn, since the spell calls for an egg in all available squares adjacent to the R-E-S...

Yeah, it's...uh...something like that.

Since direction of growth can be a strong element in briar management puzzles (and cultivation, weeding, pruning...heh), arrows should work like they do for other types of movement. I've fixed this in 3.0.2 so briar tiles will not expand against an arrow they are on top of.

Does this break any TCB rooms?

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04-23-2007 at 06:14 PM

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Stefan
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Re: Odd briar behavior (+2)

mrimer wrote:
I've fixed this in 3.0.2 so briar tiles will not expand against an arrow they are on top of.

Does this break any TCB rooms?

It will most likely break some demos for at least UtL: 1N1W, but I don't think any rooms will actually break by such a change.

In any case, here's a list of all TCB rooms with briar roots and arrows:

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I haven't checked which of these could potentially be affected by this change.

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04-23-2007 at 06:53 PM

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silver
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Re: Odd briar behavior (0)

hrm. isn't this the part where Mike downloads all the demos for those rooms, compiles the spider against his 3.0.2 source, and runs the spider on those demos on his local machine?

(edit: were it me, I'd probably have a "download the top 10 demos from every room, and run 'the next' spider against them, and let it go overnight/overweekend" phase before any patch release, and call it a final integration test. but I'm weird).

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[Last edited by silver at 04-23-2007 06:59 PM]

04-23-2007 at 06:56 PM

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mrimer
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Re: Odd briar behavior (0)

silver wrote:
hrm. isn't this the part where Mike downloads all the demos for those rooms, compiles the spider against his 3.0.2 source, and runs the spider on those demos on his local machine?

Hmm...I don't have access to the spider code. Matt's in charge of that.

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04-23-2007 at 06:59 PM

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silver
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Re: Odd briar behavior (0)

boggle. and here I thought you'd just recompile the source with a "-Dspider" (or MS equivalent) and it would make a demo-chewing copy of the engine instead of a game-playing copy

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[Last edited by silver at 04-23-2007 07:03 PM]

04-23-2007 at 07:01 PM

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zex20913
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Re: Odd briar behavior (0)

For the record, I noticed this behavior first in HV: 3S 4W. The room had already been completed, though, before I saw it, so no breaking.

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04-23-2007 at 09:11 PM

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Syntax
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Re: Odd briar behavior (0)

zex20913 wrote:
For the record, I noticed this behavior first in HV: 3S 4W. The room had already been completed, though, before I saw it, so no breaking.

Just playing through the secrets and this room is now impossible since the briar/force arrow fix. It will always catch up with you when you try and exit.

06-05-2007 at 05:31 PM

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Dolan42
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Re: Odd briar behavior (+2)

Syntax wrote:

zex20913 wrote:
For the record, I noticed this behavior first in HV: 3S 4W. The room had already been completed, though, before I saw it, so no breaking.
Just playing through the secrets and this room is now impossible since the briar/force arrow fix. It will always catch up with you when you try and exit.

The intended solution is no longer possible, but the room can still be completed.

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06-05-2007 at 07:29 PM

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Syntax
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Re: Odd briar behavior (+1)

Brilliant! I considered trying that but decided cleaning the bathroom would be more fun

06-05-2007 at 07:34 PM

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Jacob
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Re: Odd briar behavior (0)

Can someone please clarify this revised change, as it may well break a room in my new hold. Suppose a briar root passes over an arrow (following its direction normally) and *then* the arrow is rotated counter to the direction of briar growth (let's say on a 1-tile wide corridor), with the length of root still connected to the briar. Will the root continue to expand?
In other words: if the root has already passed over the arrow will it behave normally, or will the turned arrow act as a "break" in the root growth.
In other words, again, does this revision only apply to roots on the arrow, or does it also apply to roots already over the arrow?
...if that makes any sense.

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[Last edited by Jacob at 06-28-2007 05:45 PM]

06-07-2007 at 12:08 AM

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Jacob
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Re: Odd briar behavior (0)

Would very much appreciate it if someone could answer this. It will affect whether I can finish off and release my new hold, or whether I need to totally redo a room.

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06-28-2007 at 05:46 PM

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Jatopian
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Re: Odd briar behavior (0)

I think mrimer is the ony one who can answer that, Jacob.

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06-29-2007 at 02:04 AM

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schep
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Re: Odd briar behavior (+1)

Well, or anyone with a 3.0.2r2 or similar executable. In my 3.0.2r2, briars can grow even if the only connected path from root to edge goes against a force arrow. So unless something changed again, this behavior change only affects situations where briar on top of an arrow is adjacent to non-briar space.

06-29-2007 at 02:22 AM

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Jacob
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Re: Odd briar behavior (0)

That's great, thanks for that. That's exactly the behaviour I'd expected and hoped for.

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06-29-2007 at 02:51 PM

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trick
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Re: Odd briar behavior (0)

This seems to be fixed, so I'm marking it as such. (Unless I missed something? Give me a shout if so.)

07-12-2007 at 11:49 AM

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