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Caravel Forum : Caravel Boards : Contests : Holds Al Dente - Voting Topic (A multiple question poll)
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RankEntryAverageStandard Deviation
1Entry #21 - Professor Gooles Goolean Dungeon7.62962962962962.213563377405
2Entry #25 - The Pyramid of Doom7.37037037037041.590437818784
3Entry #4 - A Vist To Mellenfral72.0367003088693
4Entry #17 - Level200610226.9629629629632.1513386268826
5Entry #9 - Bugged6.92592592592592.0353528391162
6Entry #18 - Moebius Hold6.85185185185192.0494570862603
7Entry #26 - Under the Trapdoor6.74074074074071.9358717548699
8Entry #13 - Hold Of The Hour6.59259259259262.2154216931464
9Entry #19 - Nightmare Roses6.55555555555562.6573912762448
10Entry #8 - Beethros Shortcut6.29629629629632.0694392658813
11Entry #6 - Beethro Budkin Stars in6.25925925925931.9166443011756
12Entry #20 - Oct2006 Contest - Spider Invasion6.14814814814811.6932043630611
13Entry #1 - 60 Minutes6.0370370370371.5748364167014
14Entry #2 - A decision of no Choice5.74074074074072.1010154968419
15Entry #10 - Chambers Holds Al Dente5.70370370370372.2246899878046
16Entry #24 - The Crossing Holds Al Dente5.62962962962962.1282604294161
17Entry #27 - Valley of Nowhere5.55555555555561.9309052441092
18Entry #14 - Holds Al Dente by Tokyokid5.33333333333332.1602468994693
19Entry #5 - Al Dente North Carolina5.29629629629631.9965676995472
20Entry #11 - Hold Al dente by Timo0065.22222222222221.9309052441092
21Entry #15 - Holds Al Dente Jason5.18518518518522.0734125929301
22Entry #3 - A story about a man5.14814814814812.2394394752342
23Entry #16 - Holds Al Dente Jeff_ray5.11111111111112.0427529234278
24Entry #7 - Beethro the Gatherer4.85185185185191.9187901995539
25Entry #23 - Shortness4.33333333333332.4037008503093
26Entry #22 - Puzzling Limits4.29629629629631.9015552078509
27Entry #12 - Hold Al dente Lst64.25925925925931.8577683265162
Have you read the [s]menu[/s] voting rules?
Yessir! Napkin, check! Sextant, check! PollPollPoll 12 52.17%
Yeah, I'll have a Quarter Pounder with fries, and super-size it. PollPollPoll 7 30.43%
What? PollPollPoll 4 17.39%

Entry #1 - 60 Minutes
12345678910
Average Vote 6.037037037037
Standard Deviation 1.5748364167014

Entry #2 - A decision of no Choice
12345678910
Average Vote 5.7407407407407
Standard Deviation 2.1010154968419

Entry #3 - A story about a man
12345678910
Average Vote 5.1481481481481
Standard Deviation 2.2394394752342

Entry #4 - A Vist To Mellenfral
12345678910
Average Vote 7
Standard Deviation 2.0367003088693

Entry #5 - Al Dente North Carolina
12345678910
Average Vote 5.2962962962963
Standard Deviation 1.9965676995472

Entry #6 - Beethro Budkin Stars in
12345678910
Average Vote 6.2592592592593
Standard Deviation 1.9166443011756

Entry #7 - Beethro the Gatherer
12345678910
Average Vote 4.8518518518519
Standard Deviation 1.9187901995539

Entry #8 - Beethros Shortcut
12345678910
Average Vote 6.2962962962963
Standard Deviation 2.0694392658813

Entry #9 - Bugged
12345678910
Average Vote 6.9259259259259
Standard Deviation 2.0353528391162

Entry #10 - Chambers Holds Al Dente
12345678910
Average Vote 5.7037037037037
Standard Deviation 2.2246899878046

Entry #11 - Hold Al dente by Timo006
12345678910
Average Vote 5.2222222222222
Standard Deviation 1.9309052441092

Entry #12 - Hold Al dente Lst6
12345678910
Average Vote 4.2592592592593
Standard Deviation 1.8577683265162

Entry #13 - Hold Of The Hour
12345678910
Average Vote 6.5925925925926
Standard Deviation 2.2154216931464

Entry #14 - Holds Al Dente by Tokyokid
12345678910
Average Vote 5.3333333333333
Standard Deviation 2.1602468994693

Entry #15 - Holds Al Dente Jason
12345678910
Average Vote 5.1851851851852
Standard Deviation 2.0734125929301

Entry #16 - Holds Al Dente Jeff_ray
12345678910
Average Vote 5.1111111111111
Standard Deviation 2.0427529234278

Entry #17 - Level20061022
12345678910
Average Vote 6.962962962963
Standard Deviation 2.1513386268826

Entry #18 - Moebius Hold
12345678910
Average Vote 6.8518518518519
Standard Deviation 2.0494570862603

Entry #19 - Nightmare Roses
12345678910
Average Vote 6.5555555555556
Standard Deviation 2.6573912762448

Entry #20 - Oct2006 Contest - Spider Invasion
12345678910
Average Vote 6.1481481481481
Standard Deviation 1.6932043630611

Entry #21 - Professor Gooles Goolean Dungeon
12345678910
Average Vote 7.6296296296296
Standard Deviation 2.213563377405

Entry #22 - Puzzling Limits
12345678910
Average Vote 4.2962962962963
Standard Deviation 1.9015552078509

Entry #23 - Shortness
12345678910
Average Vote 4.3333333333333
Standard Deviation 2.4037008503093

Entry #24 - The Crossing Holds Al Dente
12345678910
Average Vote 5.6296296296296
Standard Deviation 2.1282604294161

Entry #25 - The Pyramid of Doom
12345678910
Average Vote 7.3703703703704
Standard Deviation 1.590437818784

Entry #26 - Under the Trapdoor
12345678910
Average Vote 6.7407407407407
Standard Deviation 1.9358717548699

Entry #27 - Valley of Nowhere
12345678910
Average Vote 5.5555555555556
Standard Deviation 1.9309052441092
Total Votes 45 100%
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Tahnan
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11-06-2006 at 12:36 AM
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Chaco
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Ah, thanks Tahnan, that was useful.

Since the voting is over, I suppose I could give you a hint for Thrice South, if you wanted one. (I hope you meant that one, since 4S is the exit room)

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11-06-2006 at 12:55 AM
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Krissan
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I've switched computers, and aren't sure where I put the text file with all comments on the holds, I'll post some stuff later if I find it.

Anyhow, I took the liberty of ranking all the entries.

Click here to view the secret text



I haven't read all comments already posted, but here's my self-criticism (entry #1: 60 minutes)
Click here to view the secret text


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11-06-2006 at 01:01 AM
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Chaco
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Eighth place! Not bad, huh, right behind Doom, Jacob and Schep and just barely ahead of Trick and Kevin.

A few days after I had voted, I checked my score and was very surprised to see that a few people had voted my hold a 2. I immediately wondered why, and felt curious and... well... shocked. Not that I thought that my hold was absolutely perfect, but it implied that my hold had something really wrong with it.

Looking at techant's comments, I now see exactly what's wrong with my hold. Having played DROD for a long time, I've steadily gotten better and better, but the hold I've made was too hard for the average player like techant, or Mattcrampy for that matter. (Please, please kick me Matt if the hold wasn't too hard for you and I just offended you)

So, what I think I'm trying to say is that I will definitely make a better effort to make easier things for the very large number of people who probably aren't nearly as good at DROD as Kevin, Schep, or other notably kinda-good people.

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11-06-2006 at 01:21 AM
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Kevin_P86
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I might as well post some comments on my own as well (Entry #8: Beethro's Shortcut):

Click here to view the secret text


By the way, thanks, Chaco, for categorizing me among the "notably kinda-good people". :D

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11-06-2006 at 01:23 AM
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Mattcrampy
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We've served up the entries, and the judges have cast their votes. This was a hard contest to cut one's teeth on - there's not a lot of examples of holds not intended to be blindingly difficult, so many architects (and many players!) don't have a lot of experience with holds that try to be easy yet entertaining. But this didn't stop contest rookies jjohn7418, bomber50, Kevin_P86, BoyBlue and Krissan! They each get 10 rank points for participating in their first contest.

Every one of our judges had different criteria for their voting, and yet, they came to one conclusion.

In third place was Challenger Tahnan, with a dish he calls "A Visit To Mellenfral". A delightful concoction, it was inspired by this contest's apparent theme ingredient, labyrinths. Vowing to return to Architect Stadium, he receives 25 rank points.

In second place, Challenger Ezlo wowed the judges with his multi-tiered confection, titled The Pyramid of Doom. His efforts will not go unrewarded: in fact, he'll be rewarded with 50 rank points.

But the most filling hold of every fresh dish served up for this competition was entitled "Professor Goole's Goolean Dungeon". A sprawling, labyrinthine affair, with actual jokes that were actually funny and excellent use of scripting, it thoroughly impressed many of the judges, who give it their highest mark. The winner of of our October 2006 contest, Holds Al Dente, is:

Iron Chef Sergenth!

Along with his new title, Iron Chef Sergenth will receive one hundred rank points and an item of his choice from the Prize Pile, which will probably end up being a copy of The City Beneath. I mean, wouldn't you choose it, if you had the choice?

Before we declare the contest closed, I'd just like to ask: what criteria did everyone use to cast their votes? Is there any constructive criticism you'd like to give the hold authors? And what goes better with this shirt, the green tie or the white tie?

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11-06-2006 at 02:01 AM
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Ezlo
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I'm am incredible surprised my hold did so well as well.

After seeing all the other entries I assumed that everyone would think that mine was too easy for a moderate hold and vote it down, but I guess very easy with a built-in-hint-system actually works! :D

As I said before I voted on two 1 out of 5 scales.
First I would rate about how far I got through it in an hour, with 5 being complete, and 1 being "Arghh! How do I do the first room?!?"
Then I would add that number to a 1 out of 5 rating of the amount of fun I had while playing for that hour, with 5 being "FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN!!!!" and 1 being "That is the most pitiful thing on the planet Earth."

Surprisingly, things that got one on one of them, generally got a 1 on the other. If that were that case I would seriously consider if it deserved a 1 or not. I forget if I actually rated one of them a one or not though.

EDIT: Yes, I rated Shortness and Puzzling Limits with 1's. I never really got Limits, what are they and how do they relate to the puzzles?

[Last edited by Ezlo at 11-06-2006 02:26 AM]
11-06-2006 at 02:24 AM
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Remlin
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Congrats to all the winners! I thought I'd post the notes I'd jotted down as I played through the holds. I voted purely on fun, no other consideration. My notes and voting were a bit harsh, so nobody take it personally - I was harsh to everyone. I suck as an architect, and this is my way of compensating.

Excepting three holds, I completed everything that was completable within the hour, including secrets and alternate paths. The exceptions were Beethro the Gatherer (time out with one room left), Professor Goolean (never got the 23 clue), and Limits (nowhere near finishing everything).

Holds 1-9
Click here to view the secret text

Holds 10-18
Click here to view the secret text

Holds 19-27
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11-06-2006 at 03:28 AM
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Schik
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Well done, everyone. Rank Points have been awarded.

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11-06-2006 at 03:32 AM
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techant
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Thanks Tahan for the links.

I grade my ranking as I stated in my comments but mostly I was thinking of my Mom who introduced me to DROD years ago. While I have gone on to harder holds she still has a hard time in the higher numbered levels of JtRH and DROD. So I felt if she would have a good time playing, with some challenge maybe, then it would meet the criteria. I agree that it is really hard to get a moderatly hard hold made, so two thumbs up to Erik :thumbsup who has now done it twice and is working on a third.

If you got board with how simple my rooms were for you expert I am sorry, but I sure had fun making them. :cool

Good job everyone - and my vote is to put everyone who agreed to be in the compilation into the compilation.

Attendtion Gerry maker of Entry #19 - Nightmare Roses - Make More Holds :thumbsup

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[Last edited by techant at 11-06-2006 03:42 AM]
11-06-2006 at 03:39 AM
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eytanz
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quote:
Schik wrote:
Well done, everyone. Rank Points have been awarded.


What about the rank points for Virtual Burning Man? I don't particularly care about my rank points, but since I didn't get them I assume no one else did either.

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11-06-2006 at 04:41 AM
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eytanz
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Oh, and before I forget again - congrats to all the winners here. I didn't have time to play the holds in this contest, but I'm looking forward to playing them later on, esp. the winners which all sound interesting.

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11-06-2006 at 04:46 AM
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Sergenth
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Here's my comments on all of the entries, edited from the notes that I took:

Click here to view the secret text


Generally, I found something in each entry that illustrated how diverse and powerful the DROD muse is. This is the first contest I've judged where every entry was in some way tapped into that giant, ethereal DROD muse and everybody, everybody pulled of a unique chunk of it, gave it a name and called it their own. I was shocked! If I didn’t mention that unique element in my comments it’s only because I forgot to write down the specifics.

And now, some design notes about my entry, Professor Goole's Goolean Dungeon.

Click here to view the secret text



[Last edited by Sergenth at 11-06-2006 06:46 AM]
11-06-2006 at 04:49 AM
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Mattcrampy
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Well, rank points have been awarded here while not at Virtual Burning Man because as soon as the results were known I sent Schik an IM saying, 'hey, dude, could you award these points for me?'

Schik tells me I surprised him because he expected the IM sometime next month. Erik is apparently a very busy guy these days.

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11-06-2006 at 04:52 AM
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jjohn7418
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First of all congrats to Sergenth, Ezlo and Tahnan. Great job!

Thanks to Matt and Schik for the 10 points, I had fun entering this contest and look forward to entering more as I have time.

As for my entry, Al Dente North Carolina, thanks to everyone that voted for me. I think I finished 19th according to Krissan. I didn't expect to do that well, since it was my first contest. I know my hold doesn't compare to a lot of the other more challenging holds, but it's more for the novice and intermediate player and I apprieciate that being a factor in the voting.

This wasn't my first hold ever, as some of the comments may have suggested, it was my second hold posted. I have others that I'm working on and am trying to learn more about scripting and the logic in playing. I have a lot of learing to do to make better holds. Someone had commented that 2N in the Charlotte level was incompletable. Did anyone else find this to be true? I played all of the rooms before submitting it, and was able to complete them all, but wanted to be sure I didn't mess up before putting my entry out there.

Thanks again to everyone. This was a great contest and I look forward to more of them.

Thanks, Jim

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11-06-2006 at 05:18 AM
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Doom
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I've just reinstalled Windows on my main computer (still some things not working completely...), (EDIT: Yay, done, problems fixed!) so it's rather hard for me to find time for commentary.

Quick notes on the top 3, and why none of them were big favourites of mine:

#3 - There was basically nothing interesting but the form room, which I didn't manage to solve after a good 15ish minutes of trying before getting bored. I'm impressed at the concept, but I didn't have fun here.
#2 - I remember one thing from this hold. It was way too easy to be much fun for me. Not that I have something against easy holds, but I basically didn't need to stop to think at any point, but could just rush through everything with little effort.
#1 - This one was pretty good. Concept-wise, it'd been a clear winner. However, what lowered my rating was occasionally badly explained scripting. For one, I never got through the final puzzle despite being sure that I had understood the big picture. The snake+scripted-monsters-room was probably the worst, because the appearing monsters were completely unpredictable. And I found a place where you'd get stuck and had to use restore while playing. (IIRC, before the 23-puzzle, assuming that you hadn't explored some of the clue rooms yet) The advantages made for most of this, but only enuogh for position 4, 5 or so on my list.

Sorry if this sounds overly negative. I just tend to be a bit like that... In the end, I did enjoy most of the entries.

As for the other side, I gave Chaco the best rating. It wasn't very challenging, but still not trivial, and fun to play. Other good ones were Boyblue's (excellent puzzles, as usually. Two thumbs up!), Kevin's Beethro's Shortcut (No real negatives, and fairly fun rooms. Just not quite as much as the earlier few).

[Last edited by Doom at 11-06-2006 03:03 PM]
11-06-2006 at 08:06 AM
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NiroZ
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quote:
techant wrote:
Entry #2 - A decision of no Choice - [4] This one while it could have been interesting was just not finished.



I don't mean to harass you, but in what way was my hold unfinished? as I had managed to convinced myself that it was well and truly finished. In fact, you could argue it was overdone, as a last minute modification was what screwed up 2E.(Which I sincerely apologise for)

As for how I rated holds, basically, when I finished a hold, I rated it on how much I would have liked to replay/finish.

The ones that I found I marked lowest tended to be ones that would fling you from one room to the next with no reasoning what so ever, and had a severe lack of style.

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11-06-2006 at 08:25 AM
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jemann
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Well, since everyone else is commenting, I'll add my own 2 cents worth on some of the holds (in reverse order, since that's the order I did them in):

Click here to view the secret text


Overall, I'm a little surprised at some of the unsolvable rooms – did the authors play through their own holds? There's a phrase used in software development which seems appropriate here: 'eat your own dog food'. If you don't want to play it, why should anyone else?

It's a great concept for a contest, and a good audition for budding architects. Can we do it again next year? (Hopefully over a longer time period - I'm all DRODded out).


[Last edited by jemann at 11-06-2006 11:11 PM]
11-06-2006 at 10:29 AM
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Doom
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quote:
jemann wrote:
Click here to view the secret text


Click here to view the secret text

11-06-2006 at 10:52 AM
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Chaco
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quote:
Doom wrote:
quote:
jemann wrote:
Click here to view the secret text


Click here to view the secret text



That was probably my favorite room of the bunch, for that reason alone.

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11-06-2006 at 11:58 AM
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Ezlo
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Okay, I decided to continue playing Nightmare Roses, and I finally figured out how to clear a room, but how do you clear a Once East or Once West room? I need to know!
11-06-2006 at 01:43 PM
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Mattcrampy
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quote:

It's a great concept for a contest, and a good audition for budding architects. Can we do it again next year?



I'd really like to, so hopefully it'll be a goer.

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11-06-2006 at 01:44 PM
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coppro
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Yeah. I noticed shortly after the contest closed that I'd forgotten to put checkpoints in some of the more dangerous rooms *cough2Wcough*.
11-06-2006 at 04:20 PM
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Kevin_P86
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A few people have mentioned the "unsolvable" secret room in A Decision of no choice. I imagine it is 2N1E to which these comments are being directed (the one with the scroll: "Architect's note: This room is believed to be impossible. Please report to me ASAP if you can defeat it."). That room is in fact solvable as I have solved it. However, I don't have a demo since I did not manage to beat 2E (and therefore I could only play 2N1E in the editor). But it is most definitely possible, and I didn't have THAT much trouble with it.

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11-06-2006 at 04:45 PM
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Remlin
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quote:
jjohn7418 wrote:Someone had commented that 2N in the Charlotte level was incompletable. Did anyone else find this to be true?
No, that was definitely doable.
quote:
Kevin_P86 wrote:A few people have mentioned the "unsolvable" secret room in A Decision of no choice. I imagine it is 2N1E to which these comments are being directed... That room is in fact solvable as I have solved it. However, I don't have a demo since I did not manage to beat 2E
That's because 2E was the unsolvable room, not 2N1E.
11-06-2006 at 05:04 PM
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Kevin_P86
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quote:
Remlin wrote:
quote:
Kevin_P86 wrote:A few people have mentioned the "unsolvable" secret room in A Decision of no choice. I imagine it is 2N1E to which these comments are being directed... That room is in fact solvable as I have solved it. However, I don't have a demo since I did not manage to beat 2E
That's because 2E was the unsolvable room, not 2N1E.
Ok, I guess that would explain why I didn't complete 2E... :)

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11-06-2006 at 05:10 PM
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Chaco
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While we're on the subject of room bugs, I discovered after I had sent off the final version that my solution to having the three middle puzzles be optional wasn't quite good enough - you get trapped if you leave Once South to the east or west without conquering it, since the green doors would be up.

This defeats the entire purpose of that edit, which was to make it possible to just walk through that room and ignore it if you wanted. But you have to solve that room in order to continue, making it four puzzles that have to be solved, not three as I advertised.

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11-06-2006 at 08:18 PM
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jjohn7418
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I have a question about the voting and reviewing of the results. If someone clicks on the "Review Results", which then forfiets their option to vote, does that count as a vote in the total number of votes?

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[Last edited by jjohn7418 at 11-06-2006 08:49 PM]
11-06-2006 at 08:48 PM
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Kevin_P86
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quote:
jjohn7418 wrote:
I have a question about the voting and reviewing of the results. If someone clicks on the "Review Results", which then forfiets their option to vote, does that count as a vote in the total number of votes?
Yes.

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11-06-2006 at 09:00 PM
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techant
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quote:
NiroZ wrote:
quote:
techant wrote:
Entry #2 - A decision of no Choice - [4] This one while it could have been interesting was just not finished.



I don't mean to harass you, but in what way was my hold unfinished? as I had managed to convinced myself that it was well and truly finished. In fact, you could argue it was overdone, as a last minute modification was what screwed up 2E.(Which I sincerely apologise for)

As for how I rated holds, basically, when I finished a hold, I rated it on how much I would have liked to replay/finish.

The ones that I found I marked lowest tended to be ones that would fling you from one room to the next with no reasoning what so ever, and had a severe lack of style.


I am refering to 2E I marked you down 1 point for that room and I do accecpt the apology. When so many rooms are just to hard for me I find it hard to know if it is just me or the room just can't be solved, so that is why I mark it down for each room that was not completed. Here it was just one room from what I saw.
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P.S. I still have not figured out the 23 sword clue? :no In the winner HELP!! :w00t

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[Last edited by techant at 11-08-2006 04:14 AM]
11-07-2006 at 12:07 AM
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