Announcement: Why not try our official idea generator for inspiration when making puzzles?


Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Collab Hold: "Use This, Not That!" (Element restriction collab thing)
New Topic New Poll Post Reply
Poster Message
Xindaris
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1588
Registered: 06-13-2015
IP: Logged
icon Collab Hold: "Use This, Not That!" (+3)  
I've had an idea for a sort of collab hold in my head for a little while, and thought maybe it's time to try it. Hopefully there'll be some takers?

Here's the idea:
-Builder 1 begins the level by using the idea generator, specifically to get 3 "use" and 3 "do not use" orders, and makes a room using (ideally focusing on) the 3 items chosen for "use", while (of course) not using the 3 items chosen for "don't use".
-Builder 2 takes Builder 1's "don't use" list as their "use" list, and rolls up 3 items for their own "don't use" list (if you roll something you're supposed to use, then reroll!).
-Builder 3 does likewise with Builder 2's list, and so on.

Builder 1 is also responsible for choosing the room style of the level, which all the others for that level should use. We'll build our rooms separately, upload them to this thread, and I'll assemble the rooms into levels, and the levels together into a full hold, once it's all done. Practically speaking, we should use this thread to "claim" rooms (as builder 1, 2, 3, etc.), finding out what the restrictions are, and then upload the rooms when they're complete.
The main level entrance will be in the hub I'm building, so your room should not have any level entrances in it, unless you're doing some weird puzzle involving going through stairs back into the same room or something. Also, scripting is allowed, but shouldn't be used to, like, skirt around the "don't use" requirement by scripting up a custom element that behaves exactly like the thing you're not allowed to include. And the focus of your room should be those 3 vanilla elements in your "use" category, not some custom widget. Please make a note when posting your room if anything (like wading state, player role, etc.) needs to be reset on exiting your room.
We should also play each others' rooms, give feedback, and revise them until the builder of each room is fully happy with it. Furthermore, I think it might be fun if we try to give each others' rooms a "brains difficulty rating"?
I have the intent that we should make multiple levels this way, a different person taking the role of "builder 1" each time. We could do this one level at a time, or even work in parallel, with multiple levels in-progress at once, if the idea is popular enough. Since this is my idea, I'll be "builder 1" for level 1.

I'm okay with one person building multiple rooms in a level, as long as they're not 2 consecutive rooms(!). So you can be builder 1 and 3, but not 1 and 2, or 2 and 3. It's also definitely fine, if not encouraged, for one person to build a room in one level and a room in another. However, to keep things from being bogged down and never finishing, I'm instituting some soft rules, namely:
Upload your room within one month of your post claiming it! You may not claim a new room if you have an "overdue" room. We can revise rooms after the initial upload, and if you "make up" all your "overdue" rooms, then you can start claiming rooms again. But if you never upload a room, I'll feel free to skip it when I compile the collab. Please don't overcommit and try to claim more than one room if you're not absolutely confident you can make all of them.

Restrictions on rolling:
I'm trusting everyone to be honest about not having just picked whatever 3 elements they like or happened to not use in a room already. If you get some ridiculous results from the generator, like "don't use floors or walls", you can do it anyway, or you can post to let us all laugh at that and let everyone know you're rerolling. That is perfectly okay.

Finally, include a scroll the player can read before starting the puzzle of your room, formatted as follows:
Click here to view the secret text


Okay, I think that's it, so I'll go on and start the game by claiming the first room of level 1. Like so:

I am Builder 1 of Level 1. The room style for this level is City. I'm using: Decoy, Wubba, Red Door. I'm not using: Puff, Cracked Orb, Dagger.

(This means that "Builder 2 of Level 1" should use Puff, Cracked Orb, and Dagger! And roll what items you won't use.)

____________________________
109th Skywatcher

Here are some links to Things!
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by Xindaris at 06-28-2024 09:07 PM]
06-28-2024 at 08:55 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Xindaris
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1588
Registered: 06-13-2015
IP: Logged

File: Use This Not That - Xindaris.hold (1.5 KB)
Downloaded 5 times.
License: Public Domain
icon Re: Collab Hold: "Use This, Not That!" (0)  
As a slight overachievement, I've also already built my first draft of my room claimed above. It's attached to this post!

Player stealth needs to be reset to default when exiting this room.


One more thing!
If you are interested in this idea, and want to participate, but hate the trio of elements currently available, please post to let me know. If nobody claims builder 2 and rolls some new elements for a bit, I can Mulligan my 3 unused elements as this room is quite restrictive on element-use, to make a more usable trio. Once we've got a chain going, if you don't like the current chain, maybe you can ask to start a new level as builder 1 instead?

____________________________
109th Skywatcher

Here are some links to Things!
Click here to view the secret text

06-28-2024 at 09:04 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 4775
Registered: 02-20-2007
IP: Logged
icon Re: Collab Hold: "Use This, Not That!" (+1)  
I'm up for giving this a go, so:

I will be builder 2 of Level 1. I will use Puff, Cracked Orb and Dagger, and won't use three elements I will now roll:

Wraithwing, Mirror, Bridge.

So builder 3 must use those three elements and roll a new three elements to not use.

____________________________
50th Skywatcher
06-28-2024 at 09:43 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Red-XIII
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 651
Registered: 08-05-2012
IP: Logged

File: Screenshot_20240628_235801_Free Adblocker Browser.jpg (748.5 KB)
Downloaded 8 times.
License: Public Domain
icon Re: Collab Hold: "Use This, Not That!" (0)  
This sounds fun, count me in!
I will use wraithwing, mirror, and bridge.

In my roll, I got the following (see also attached screen):

Do not use: platform on pit, sword, wall.

____________________________
There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

[Last edited by Red-XIII at 07-03-2024 08:35 PM]
06-28-2024 at 11:01 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
disoriented
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2402
Registered: 08-07-2007
IP: Logged
icon Re: Collab Hold: "Use This, Not That!" (0)  
I will be builder 4 of Level 1. I will use Platform over pit, sword, wall, and won't use three elements I will now roll:

Rock golem, Broken orb, Aumtlich

So builder 5 must use those three elements and roll another three elements to not use.


____________________________
34th Skywatcher

Best to PM me, since I might miss your message on CaravelNet chat.
06-28-2024 at 11:35 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Kalin
Level: Master Delver
Avatar
Rank Points: 216
Registered: 01-25-2016
IP: Logged
icon Re: Collab Hold: "Use This, Not That!" (0)  
I will be builder 5 of level 1 and will use: rock golem, broken orb, aumtlich.

I will not use:
Fluff, Wall, One-use Pressure Plate

Is the level layout going to be hub or linear? That's going to matter with all these rooms that can't use walls.

____________________________
he/him
~170th Skywatcher

[Last edited by Kalin at 06-29-2024 12:50 AM]
06-29-2024 at 12:48 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Xindaris
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1588
Registered: 06-13-2015
IP: Logged
icon Re: Collab Hold: "Use This, Not That!" (0)  
I'm planning to assemble the rooms of each level together, along with some puzzle-less connective rooms, into a "fully open" layout. If you want to have more than one entrance to your room, feel free; I can adapt to that. You can use pits and water in place of walls, or obstacles in a pinch (if you get the dreaded "no walls, no pits, no water" roll!)

I am hoping that everyone won't randomly decide to have their rooms only enterable from the same direction as each other (such as every room having an opening to the east and nowhere else), but that seems pretty unlikely.

____________________________
109th Skywatcher

Here are some links to Things!
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by Xindaris at 06-29-2024 02:24 AM]
06-29-2024 at 02:20 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Xindaris
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1588
Registered: 06-13-2015
IP: Logged
icon Re: Collab Hold: "Use This, Not That!" (0)  
It's occurred to me that the subject of titling levels hasn't come up before now. I'd propose that maybe "builder 1" of each level can title it once the rooms are all built and they've had a look at them all? Unless we want to be boring and call them "Level 1", "Level 2", etc.

Separately, I did think of (a little too late) the idea of a "final builder" who "closes the loop" by using what the previous builder didn't, and not using what builder 1 did. That'd be easier to organize if we had a fixed number of builders per level. At the moment level 1 has 5, maybe we could shoot for a total of 8? Anyway, I might volunteer to be #6 later if nobody else does.

Open to thoughts on these ideas, including telling me they're bad!

____________________________
109th Skywatcher

Here are some links to Things!
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by Xindaris at 07-06-2024 02:21 AM]
07-06-2024 at 02:19 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Red-XIII
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 651
Registered: 08-05-2012
IP: Logged

File: UTNT Red rooms.hold (1.4 KB)
Downloaded 8 times.
License: Public Domain
icon Re: Collab Hold: "Use This, Not That!" (0)  
Xindaris wrote:
It's occurred to me that the subject of titling levels hasn't come up before now. I'd propose that maybe "builder 1" of each level can title it once the rooms are all built and they've had a look at them all? Unless we want to be boring and call them "Level 1", "Level 2", etc.

Separately, I did think of (a little too late) the idea of a "final builder" who "closes the loop" by using what the previous builder didn't, and not using what builder 1 did. That'd be easier to organize if we had a fixed number of builders per level. At the moment level 1 has 5, maybe we could shoot for a total of 8? Anyway, I might volunteer to be #6 later if nobody else does.

Open to thoughts on these ideas, including telling me they're bad!

About the level titling, I am fine with whatever decision. If there's a theme, it's easier to come up with the name.

I don't get the loop thing, if the last builder uses the builder 1 roll, there will be two rooms with the same elements, or am I misinterpreting something?

Also, what do you mean by: Furthermore, I think it might be fun if we try to give each others' rooms a "brains difficulty rating?

Last but not not least, I managed to build my room! I had the sketch since last week, but now I am happy that a certain solution is possible and I managed to find it.
I made the entrances symmetrical, meaning that you can paste the room into the overall level in any way you like it, and then the other 3 entrances must be deleted. So, you cannot kill the ww in one of the entrances.

____________________________
There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher
07-07-2024 at 10:02 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Xindaris
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1588
Registered: 06-13-2015
IP: Logged
icon Re: Collab Hold: "Use This, Not That!" (0)  
What I mean is: In the first room, I am using Decoy, Wubba, and Red Door. The final builder in closing the loop, hypothetically Builder 8, would use what builder 7 does not use like usual, but instead of rolling up what to not use, they would not use what I did use. That way, every trio of elements rolled would be used by one builder, and not used by one other builder, for a nice sort of symmetry. Does that make sense?

What I mean about the difficulty is, as we hopefully play and give feedback on each others' rooms, we can include at some point a number from 1-10 just like the usual hold ratings for how difficult they are, which is generally represented as a "number of brains".

Anyway, I'll download and try your room soon, I think.

EDIT:
I haven't solved it yet, pretty tricky. But you do know it's supposed to be in the "City" room style, right? It's caldera right now. I'm also not sure whether it counts as not using sword, although I guess it doesn't use a "sword token", and that certainly is a valid interpretation. Maybe more of a problem is that it does kind of use walls, although it's easy to see how the frame of walls on the room edge could be turned into pits and the ones actually essential to the puzzle, which are the ones around the wraithwing, could be replaced by force arrows.

Edit edit:
I got it, fun room! Nice little trick. I'd say it's not too hard, maybe 3-4 brains? It wouldn't be hard to use scripting to give the player a caber or spear or something to fully fill the "don't use sword" requirement, and the puzzle would be basically the same, if you want to do that.

____________________________
109th Skywatcher

Here are some links to Things!
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by Xindaris at 07-11-2024 03:07 AM]
07-11-2024 at 02:55 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Red-XIII
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 651
Registered: 08-05-2012
IP: Logged
icon Re: Collab Hold: "Use This, Not That!" (0)  
Xindaris wrote:
What I mean is: In the first room, I am using Decoy, Wubba, and Red Door. The final builder in closing the loop, hypothetically Builder 8, would use what builder 7 does not use like usual, but instead of rolling up what to not use, they would not use what I did use. That way, every trio of elements rolled would be used by one builder, and not used by one other builder, for a nice sort of symmetry. Does that make sense?

What I mean about the difficulty is, as we hopefully play and give feedback on each others' rooms, we can include at some point a number from 1-10 just like the usual hold ratings for how difficult they are, which is generally represented as a "number of brains".

Anyway, I'll download and try your room soon, I think.

EDIT:
I haven't solved it yet, pretty tricky. But you do know it's supposed to be in the "City" room style, right? It's caldera right now. I'm also not sure whether it counts as not using sword, although I guess it doesn't use a "sword token", and that certainly is a valid interpretation. Maybe more of a problem is that it does kind of use walls, although it's easy to see how the frame of walls on the room edge could be turned into pits and the ones actually essential to the puzzle, which are the ones around the wraithwing, could be replaced by force arrows.

Edit edit:
I got it, fun room! Nice little trick. I'd say it's not too hard, maybe 3-4 brains? It wouldn't be hard to use scripting to give the player a caber or spear or something to fully fill the "don't use sword" requirement, and the puzzle would be basically the same, if you want to do that.

To answer your first question, let's just say that... I understood (kind of).

About the room style, I forgot to change it, sorry! I use caldera often when building because I like its music (and I change the style when I want to listen to something different), so feel free to change it when copying it into the main hold!

Ah, I do use the sword, good catch. Sure, you could script such that you always have the caber. About the walls, I thought that the element must not have been involved in the solution, not that you cannot put it, but I see now that your interpretation makes more sense. I will update the room next week with those fixes. Also, glad you liked it! It was not easy to make it non-trivial.

Lastly, just to be clear, can I use other elements besides the three "use this"? Otherwise it will be tough to create something with three elements if they are not usable by themself (e.g. use red door, black door, and green door; it's implied that I should use trapdoor, tarstuff and monsters!).

____________________________
There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

[Last edited by Red-XIII at 07-11-2024 07:12 AM]
07-11-2024 at 07:11 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Xindaris
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1588
Registered: 06-13-2015
IP: Logged
icon Re: Collab Hold: "Use This, Not That!" (0)  
Yes, the point of the "use this" elements is that they just have to be somewhere in the room, and it's even better if they're the focus of the room. In theory you could literally put the "use this" elements in a corner of the room, not involved with the puzzle at all, and that would fulfill the rule, but be kind of against the spirit of the idea. The only elements you're expressly supposed to not use are the "don't use" elements.

____________________________
109th Skywatcher

Here are some links to Things!
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by Xindaris at 07-11-2024 04:38 PM]
07-11-2024 at 04:38 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Xindaris
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1588
Registered: 06-13-2015
IP: Logged
icon Re: Collab Hold: "Use This, Not That!" (+1)  
Psst...uh...

So, I don't know about anybody else, but my real-life's been pretty busy lately. So, only coming back to actually check in like this now. Did...anyone besides me and Red-XII finish their rooms yet? Or have feedback on the ones posted so far?

____________________________
109th Skywatcher

Here are some links to Things!
Click here to view the secret text

09-26-2024 at 02:01 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
New Topic New Poll Post Reply
Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Collab Hold: "Use This, Not That!" (Element restriction collab thing)
Surf To:


Forum Rules:
Can I post a new topic? No
Can I reply? No
Can I read? Yes
HTML Enabled? No
UBBC Enabled? Yes
Words Filter Enable? No

Contact Us | CaravelGames.com

Powered by: tForum tForumHacks Edition b0.98.8
Originally created by Toan Huynh (Copyright © 2000)
Enhanced by the tForumHacks team and the Caravel team.