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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Krighton's Castle (Currently: Released! (As of 19-Apr-14))
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Penwielder
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I'm surprised that no one has said anything about this yet: The stairs that should lead down to the first level (from Castle Exterior: 2N1E) currently end the hold.

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12-11-2011 at 06:19 PM
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Fixed. I also checked the rest of the staircases to make sure they worked as well.

Does anyone have any comments about the Sixth Floor (or anything else) so far?

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12-11-2011 at 06:48 PM
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I am growing weary of trying without success to finish the Seventh Level. This post is here to inform everyone that I will stop producing levels and just rework the existing content into a proper hold so that I can go ahead and finish this long, long project already. There is just too much going on right now for my creative juices to flow properly.

Maybe a week from now, maybe sooner, I will post the finished hold.

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01-03-2012 at 05:01 AM
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New version. Right on time, too!

The changes to the hold are very extensive. However, it has been just about finished. The to-do list is:
-Write the ending text
-Personally run through the hold one last time (currently on Castle Interior (originally Second Floor))
-Cast "Insight" on my creative writing ability so I can make the entrance descriptions and speech, you know, interesting

Now is the time for testing and criticizing my work to pieces for the sake of quality. I will also provide demos for anyone that asks.

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01-07-2012 at 09:22 PM
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Chaco
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I was just playing through the hold again, and I liked the streamlining of level 1, where the tedious and uninteresting rooms were removed.

For Prison Ward Once West, could you have Beethro say something interesting when he successfully completes the challenge, instead of just saying nothing?

I noticed that Prison Ward 2N1W has been changed since an older version. In the older version, the hallways to the roaches were very long, but now they are quite short. I think this makes the room much harder, and inappropriately difficult for level 1. In the old version it was possible to stuff one of the two goblins into one of the roach passages, and then take the goblins to the pressure plates one at a time, which made the room much easier once that lynchpin was realized. Now the passageways are sealed off by yellow doors and it's quite difficult to get both goblins to the switches.

I would prefer it if you lengthened the roach passageways again so what I described is possible, since, well, it is just the first level.

-

The staircase behind the blue door in Prison Ward: Entrance goes to Castle Interior: Once East. This level entrance text needs to be rewritten, since right now it just says "You step into". The staircase in Castle Interior: Once East currently ends the hold, when I think it should go back to Prison Ward: Entrance. (Even if the sister green door there is closed.)

-

As for your creative writing, I think you're doing OK so far with the overall premise and some of the dialogue you've written, but in some cases I think you've fallen a bit too far into telling, rather than showing, when you have Beethro complain about the taste of decoy potions or say "a mimic potion will be useful for clearing out these monsters", as if we didn't figure that one out already.

I agree that sometimes a witty one or two-liner after beating a long room can help keep the spirits up, but they aren't needed in every room, and it is certainly possible to write a bad one-liner.

-

Overall, I'd say the hold is relatively polished, though, as it has been in the past, so I'd still like to emphasize that indeed, the hold is almost complete. I'll be sure to let you know if I run into any other difficulties, or think a room doesn't have enough checkpoints, or something like that.

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Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by Chaco at 01-09-2012 03:44 AM]
01-09-2012 at 03:11 AM
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12th Archivist
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Chaco wrote:
I was just playing through the hold again, and I liked the streamlining of level 1, where the tedious and uninteresting rooms were removed.
Excellent! That was the entire purpose of the multiple "condensing" updates.
For Prison Ward Once West, could you have Beethro say something interesting when he successfully completes the challenge, instead of just saying nothing?
Good idea.
I would prefer it if you lengthened the roach passageways again so what I described is possible, since, well, it is just the first level.
I never thought of doing it that way before. I shortened the roach passages because I thought they looked ugly, actually!
The staircase behind the blue door in Prison Ward: Entrance goes to Castle Interior: Once East. This level entrance text needs to be rewritten, since right now it just says "You step into". The staircase in Castle Interior: Once East currently ends the hold, when I think it should go back to Prison Ward: Entrance. (Even if the sister green door there is closed.)
The staircase locations have been doing a *lot* of messing up recently. In the version I have open right now, the staircases work properly, so that will definitely be part of the next update.
As for your creative writing, I think you're doing OK so far with the overall premise and some of the dialogue you've written,
I hate doing "OK", especially with creative writing. The story and atmosphere are not particularly important, but what am I doing wrong (or could be doing better)? It would irk me if people considered the dialogue and humor in this hold mediocre.
but in some cases I think you've fallen a bit too far into telling, rather than showing, when you have Beethro complain about the taste of decoy potions or say "a mimic potion will be useful for clearing out these monsters", as if we didn't figure that one out already. I agree that sometimes a witty one or two-liner after beating a long room can help keep the spirits up, but they aren't needed in every room, and it is certainly possible to write a bad one-liner.
I can see that now. Many of the extraneous and forgettable comments have been removed.
Overall, I'd say the hold is relatively polished, though, as it has been in the past, so I'd still like to emphasize that indeed, the hold is almost complete.
What else, do you think, needs more attention?

===========

My apologies for replying so late. Thank you for your valuable input.

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01-18-2012 at 03:30 AM
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Garlonuss wrote:
You're right. I'm test playing a couple different holds and it looks like I posted that for the wrong one. That was meant to be for Krighton's Castle.
Mineral Labs: Twice East is the room where the player is disarmed and has to use the guard to kill the waterskippers. This is the room you are talking about, yes?

If it is, could you describe your troubles with it? I can give a few hints on how to solve it and a demo if need be.

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03-07-2012 at 10:23 PM
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Garlonuss
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12th Archivist wrote:
Garlonuss wrote:
You're right. I'm test playing a couple different holds and it looks like I posted that for the wrong one. That was meant to be for Krighton's Castle.
Mineral Labs: Twice East is the room where the player is disarmed and has to use the guard to kill the waterskippers. This is the room you are talking about, yes?

If it is, could you describe your troubles with it? I can give a few hints on how to solve it and a demo if need be.

Just another example of how mistaken I was when I posted that comment on the wrong forum to start with. I meant to say 2W. The pressure plate to start the vine growing is under an arrow, so you have to enter through the upper opening, but if you look at 1W, that one has an arrow to prevent just that. It's an easy fix, but it needs to be fixed.
Click here to view the secret text

That is, unless I'm seriously missing something, and considering the fact that I posted this to on the wrong thread and about the wrong room, it's entirely possible that I'm too distracted right now to be right.

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Sometimes they don't make much sense.
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[Last edited by Garlonuss at 03-09-2012 04:12 AM]
03-09-2012 at 04:10 AM
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You are correct. That arrow in 1W should be facing west, not east. Also, it should be the one with the open yellow door under it.

I thought I tested those rooms together, too!

The next version should be coming out soon. It has a bit of new content and some redesigning.

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03-09-2012 at 04:25 AM
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New version time!

The changes are numerous. Most importantly, Prison Ward is no longer required to conquer the hold, although it is necessary for mastery. Secondly, Castle Secret has been expanded a bit because I have moved many "poor" rooms there, replacing the original locations with better rooms.

This is a release candidate in terms of content. I still need to finish author's commentary, add a few more things to various places (mostly in Castle Secret), and very likely knock out a few more bugs.

Do you folks think that this hold's content is prepared and polished enough to be released?

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03-20-2012 at 06:41 AM
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New version released. Pending any last errors found, this should hopefully be the last version.

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03-15-2013 at 05:30 AM
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So, are there any last comments before I submit this to the HAQ? I always need a fresh set of eyes to go over my stuff, and I want this hold to be the best quality it can be.

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03-16-2013 at 10:32 PM
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blorx1
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I've been playing through this hold, breaking a lot of rooms, I'll probably post my whole demo set once I'm done. I've cleared about 3 levels worth of rooms at the moment.

At the moment though, I'm rather frustrated at Guards' Barracks: 2S1W because it is complete trial and error getting the goblins to stay in the right places, causing the room to be utterly unfun. I recommend putting two wubbas on 3,27 and 24,27 to solve the problem, since at the moment I am not able to get goblins to stay there and have restarted the room twice.

If the room isn't changed I'd probably finish what I can of the hold and ignore the rest.

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03-18-2013 at 06:42 PM
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blorx1
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Ok, I have exactly two required rooms left in the hold. Unless changes are made, I don't plan on finishing 2S1W in Guard's Barracks, and I can't seem to beat 1S in that level either. The timer is either a bit tight for my taste, or I just suck at efficiency, probably some combination of the two. I'm still six moves slower than I should be. I'd appreciate some tips for that room.

The thing about this hold is that there are a number of rooms which don't really work as well as they should, and may need to be fixed. I think I'll help deal with this once I finish the last couple of rooms.

One last thing that I probably won't remember if I don't bring it up now, The cutscene that happens when the player falls into the Castle interior: 1N repeats every time the player enters that room if they trigger the cutscene once.

EDIT: I also have found a backtracking issue in Prison Ward:1E. If the player leaves through the secret exit without conquering the room. Then they will be unable to leave.



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[Last edited by blorx1 at 03-19-2013 04:16 AM]
03-19-2013 at 03:27 AM
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A new version has been uploaded.

CHANGELOG:
-Many bugs and unintended solutions have been fixed.
-Several rooms in Upper Ramparts and Guards' Barracks have been changed around, and two new room were added. Their originals were moved to the postmastery content.
-The secret in Castle Interior has been replaced with a new puzzle. It is no longer accessible by secret wall, but rather by solving the riddles on the scrolls placed around the castle. Can you solve the riddles and achieve mastery?
-More author's commentary has been added.

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[Last edited by 12th Archivist at 06-14-2013 05:34 AM]
06-14-2013 at 02:39 AM
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For some reason, a lot of the lights in Prison Ward were somehow removed, making many rooms broken (mostly because roach queens kept escaping from their intended traps). This error has been fixed in this new version.

Also, in order to improve playing experience, Prison Ward has been updated with many new lights. This makes the level a little less creepy and dark, but should make playing it with the environmental effects on a lot less headache-inducing.

Also, some speech was fixed in the entrance of Castle Exterior. Yay?

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06-14-2013 at 05:26 AM
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Updated with a few small bug fixes, and a new section of unrequired rooms has been added to the postmastery content.

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06-14-2013 at 01:20 PM
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blorx1
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Alright, I've got a demo for every pre-mastery room, except (Guard's barracks 1S2E, which I suspect is impossible without entering the secret, and doing that would create a backtracking issue.)

I'm going to finish up the post-mastery level as soon as I can, so I can post my demos all at once. I think there is still an issue with Castle interior 1N being silly when re-entering after falling down from the other room. Edit: Maybe not, I'm not sure.

I'll get back to you with a big list of stuff once I finish.

Edit: I just remembered that you may wish to move the brains in the stair room for castle interior so that people can one move demo them, or just mark the rooms unhighscorable.

Edit 2: I think the root of a lot of the scripting problems are from not playing a clean restart of the hold, which I can't quite be bothered to do at the moment.

Edit 3: I also can't get a demo for the secret in castle interior without doing a restart of the hold since it got marked as conquered very early in play.

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[Last edited by blorx1 at 06-14-2013 02:48 PM]
06-14-2013 at 02:30 PM
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blorx1 wrote: Alright, I've got a demo for every pre-mastery room, except (Guard's barracks 1S2E, which I suspect is impossible without entering the secret, and doing that would create a backtracking issue.)
Nope, 1S2E is very much possible. I can attach a demo if you want.
I'm going to finish up the post-mastery level as soon as I can, so I can post my demos all at once. I think there is still an issue with Castle interior 1N being silly when re-entering after falling down from the other room. Edit: Maybe not, I'm not sure.
Ugh, yeah, this bug still exists. I reworked the code so falling into the room normally should work, but if the player goes to the secret room and then comes back to the fall-into room, he properly falls down to Castle Interior but makes a weird NPC clone of himself. I will need to look into this further.
Edit: I just remembered that you may wish to move the brains in the stair room for castle interior so that people can one move demo them, or just mark the rooms unhighscorable.
I thought people already could one-move-demo those rooms. What do you mean?
Edit 2: I think the root of a lot of the scripting problems are from not playing a clean restart of the hold, which I can't quite be bothered to do at the moment.
Yes, a lot of things were changed between that version and the current version, making a clean restart the only way to fully test the hold. Playing through the hold, start to finish, is actually what I am doing right now.
Edit 3: I also can't get a demo for the secret in castle interior without doing a restart of the hold since it got marked as conquered very early in play.
No problem. I know room is indeed solvable, and I can provide a demo myself for anyone that asks.

Aside from the big list of stuff once you finish, did you enjoy the hold? Was it generally worth your time?

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06-14-2013 at 06:26 PM
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blorx1
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I've finished every room that I deem possible (and there are several that appear to not be). Attached is a pile of demos, many of which seem to be unintended, or strange. Some comments for many rooms are included.

Castle interior:
Click here to view the secret text


Prison Ward:
Click here to view the secret text


Guard's Barracks:
Click here to view the secret text


Upper Ramparts:
Click here to view the secret text


Mineral Labs:
Click here to view the secret text


Automatic Chambers (I broke a lot of rooms on this level):
Click here to view the secret text


Castle Secret:
Click here to view the secret text


Edit: Unless I missed a version, which I could have, Guard's barracks 1S2E seems impossible because the tunnel at the south end goes nowhere. Also I think the hold was generally fun, there were some rooms, mainly post mastery rooms that annoyed me. Being a completionist is my own fault though.

About the 1 move demoing, stepping down the stairs takes a turn, making it a two turn demo.

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[Last edited by blorx1 at 06-14-2013 07:29 PM]
06-14-2013 at 07:22 PM
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I wonder if I should just make the entire postmastery content unrequired. By the sound of your post, it seems like the vast majority of the content is fairly bad (which it honestly is). I would hate it if it left a bad taste in everyone's mouths.

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06-14-2013 at 08:03 PM
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blorx1
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Really, I think that there are still some nice rooms in the post-mastery content. It might not be a bad idea to replace some of the annoying rooms with say, optional challenges, like solving guard's barracks' 1N without stepping on the pressure plate.

Some of course could stand to be removed and nobody would miss them, since most optimisers will play through all the room anyway, regardless of if they are un-required.

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06-14-2013 at 08:10 PM
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blorx1 wrote:
Automatic Chambers (I broke a lot of rooms on this level):
These words piqued my curiosity. I just had to bash these USes first.
Click here to view the secret text


Prison Ward
Click here to view the secret text


I will finish the list later. Taking your advice, I will also remove the worst offenders in Castle Secret. Which ones did you think were the best and worse? My judgement is kinda worthless here.

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06-14-2013 at 08:46 PM
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blorx1
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I notice that a new version isn't actually posted, which is fine, at some point it might be useful to see the changes. I'd like some conformation that Guard's Barracks 1S2E is possible, though it wouldn't surprise me if it works now and just hasn't been put into the most recent update.

As for the rooms in castle secret.

I like: 1S1E, 1N1E (since it is a pretty unique room), 1S2E which is getting moved, 1N3E (at the very least is worth keeping, since it is so short though it may need a bit of tweaking maybe.) 1S3E is fine since it can be solved really quickly and non-tediously. 1N9E.

Rooms I'm neutral towards (and those with US's that I'm uncertain about):

1N3E (at the very least is worth keeping, since it is so short though it may need a bit of tweaking maybe.) 1S3E is fine since it can be solved really quickly and non-tediously. 1S5E. 1N7E could be fine if you make a slight change to make the platforms actually fit in a four wide row. I think the platform piece at 19,18 needs to be moved to 21,18. 1N8E and 10E seem impossible at the moment. 1S8E also seems impossible, and wouldn't be too bad if fixed. 9E. 1S9E might be good, but at the moment, it looks like a messy over-complicated non-working puzzle.

Rooms that I dislike:
1N2E(It was a bit of a pain in the butt.)
1N4E, 1S4E, 1N5E isn't too bad, but I don't really like it. 2N7E (and most platform rooms like this) annoy me. 10E would be mildly annoying/trial and error regardless of it if were possible.


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06-14-2013 at 09:50 PM
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New version is uploaded.

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07-16-2013 at 06:02 PM
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blorx1
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I don't quite know what has changed between the versions. I know that there were quite a few tweaks to Castle Secret and to Automatic Chambers.

For AC I've got four demos with some new solutions (some of them have always been possible, but I only did them now).

The biggest reason many of these work is simple because the timers in the rooms are too short. For 4N1W and 3N1W this is especially true. It is probably also possible to break 1N1W but I suspect it would be harder than doing the room correctly.

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07-16-2013 at 09:04 PM
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icon Re: Krighton's Castle (+1)  
Attached is a new version addressing these USs.

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08-10-2013 at 07:33 PM
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So do people think the number of checkpoints in the hold is good? I remember noma commenting on Widget Factory that there weren't enough checkpoints, so I want to get this bit checked up on by testers.

There are enough for me, even too many in some places.

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08-13-2013 at 04:19 AM
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blorx1
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icon Re: Krighton's Castle (+2)  
I've played through the three rooms in AC, where my demos were broken. I don't have any new demos for you because of the three two appear impossible/only an unintended solution will work.

2N appears to work as intended, although looking at it again, the snake part serves almost no purpose, because the player can easily lure a monster through at any time, due to the constant motion of the builders (and even hot tiles won't fix it).

4N1W is mostly fine, but impossible, for a rather obvious reason. (The kind I tend to miss in my rooms too).

3N1W will need some more tweaks however. The biggest issue is that the new snake timer is inherently unpredictable, and unless the player picks the right turn to step on the plate, the room is impossible. I can't say I can tell what the intended solution to the room is because it seems that because of the green gate, I can't use the rattlesnakes in any meaningful way that I can't with my sword, unless I lure them into the green door chamber (probably possible). In addition, I don't think I have to use them in a meaningful way either because the timer is still very short and I could easily time the builders using my sword.

Maybe I could do something clever with snake timing, but it would make the room into a difficult snake timing room instead of a builder room.

Sorry if this post is kind of negative, but the issues I'm talking about are easy enough to fix if you have a clear idea of what you want to the with the rooms and mostly just small errors.

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08-16-2013 at 01:35 AM
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12th Archivist
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icon Re: Krighton's Castle (+1)  
blorx1 wrote:
2N appears to work as intended, although looking at it again, the snake part serves almost no purpose, because the player can easily lure a monster through at any time, due to the constant motion of the builders (and even hot tiles won't fix it).
Hmm, I moved the serpent trap so far west that you can't lure anything into the trap by walking around the builder area. I think this should work.
4N1W is mostly fine, but impossible, for a rather obvious reason. (The kind I tend to miss in my rooms too).
Wow, I are dumb. Fixed. Are there any other problems or unintended solutions you think I should fix about this room?
3N1W will need some more tweaks however. The biggest issue is that the new snake timer is inherently unpredictable, and unless the player picks the right turn to step on the plate, the room is impossible. I can't say I can tell what the intended solution to the room is because it seems that because of the green gate, I can't use the rattlesnakes in any meaningful way that I can't with my sword, unless I lure them into the green door chamber (probably possible). In addition, I don't think I have to use them in a meaningful way either because the timer is still very short and I could easily time the builders using my sword.
I've increased the length of the timer up to 61 turns at minimum, which is ten turns longer than the path the builders take. I've added some mirrors and changed the arrows around so that the solution uses very little snake manipulation (if you figure it out). I hope this removes the unintended solutions and makes the intended solution very worthwhile.
Sorry if this post is kind of negative, but the issues I'm talking about are easy enough to fix if you have a clear idea of what you want to the with the rooms and mostly just small errors.
I actually wasn't offended in the slightest, mostly because I did know exactly what my rooms were supposed to be. I just needed your nudges in the right direction. Thanks!

On an unrelated note, I've finally fixed all the problems with cloning yourself into Castle Interior from Upper Ramparts. If it works for everyone, it should have a cutscene happen the first time, but none of the subsequent times, and no other NPCs should ever appear.

New version has been uploaded.

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[Last edited by 12th Archivist at 08-16-2013 04:33 AM]
08-16-2013 at 04:31 AM
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