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kyevan
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icon The Eighth - topology and much weird nonsense (0)  
So I've been contemplating the shape of the Eighth - a loopy conical topology. The closest I can come to making it work is if there's a counterpart, we'll call it "the other seven-eighths" for the moment, that wraps around the Eighth, coming from the point and back around to the other edge. If you were able to pass the point (which you can't, since you would have to pass through the edge of reality, I think!) you would be on another cone, where everything seems to wrap around you UP, so you would be able to reach up and touch your own hand "dangling from the ceiling". On second thought, couldn't that be the in side of the Eighth, where the world Bethro inhabits is the outside? the only thing is, depth won't take you from one to the other, as best as we can tell.

Or maybe it will, and that's where the caverns are? Nah, I like the other way better, then it's not actually inside: around, or even back through, would work just as well.

The upshot of all this? Nothing, as far as I can tell, other than creating another part of the setting that is literally inaccessible.

EDIT: Er, I mean, that, or it's topologically identical to a sheet of paper, and that's just no fun.

[Last edited by kyevan at 08-17-2008 05:45 AM]
08-17-2008 at 05:34 AM
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halyavin
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icon Re: The Eighth - topology and much weird nonsense (+1)  
It is all flawlessly consistent just do not try to count suns and imagine how day parts look like...
08-17-2008 at 06:12 AM
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kyevan
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icon Re: The Eighth - topology and much weird nonsense (+1)  
'I'm pretty sure you'd see eight eighths of a sun, though of course there's only really one (Much like how you might see eight Bethros if he walked to the point, but there would still only be one.)




08-17-2008 at 06:38 AM
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Hikari
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icon Re: The Eighth - topology and much weird nonsense (0)  
I have a suspicion that the whole Second Sky thing might possibly throw a wrench in any attempts at this point to work out the topology. Until we know more about just what *that* is...

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08-17-2008 at 07:53 AM
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kyevan
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Second Sky?
08-17-2008 at 08:08 AM
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Kwerulous
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icon Re: The Eighth - topology and much weird nonsense (0)  
quote:
kyevan wrote:
Second Sky?

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08-17-2008 at 08:20 AM
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eytanz
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icon Re: The Eighth - topology and much weird nonsense (0)  
quote:
Hikari wrote:
I have a suspicion that the whole Second Sky thing might possibly throw a wrench in any attempts at this point to work out the topology. Until we know more about just what *that* is...


There's an interesting point here. I'm pretty sure that the Eighth's toplogy is impossible to plot in a 3D space.

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08-17-2008 at 08:59 AM
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kyevan
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icon Re: The Eighth - topology and much weird nonsense (0)  
quote:
eytanz wrote:
quote:
Hikari wrote:
I have a suspicion that the whole Second Sky thing might possibly throw a wrench in any attempts at this point to work out the topology. Until we know more about just what *that* is...


There's an interesting point here. I'm pretty sure that the Eighth's toplogy is impossible to plot in a 3D space.

Hmm, but how hard would it be to project it into a 3d space? Like a Klein bottle, you can't actually build one, but you can build something that gives the idea of it pretty well. Or, for that matter, a drawing of a cube. Or... uh, never mind. I can't think of anything in one dimension.
08-17-2008 at 09:08 AM
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eytanz
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icon Re: The Eighth - topology and much weird nonsense (0)  
quote:
kyevan wrote:
quote:
eytanz wrote:
quote:
Hikari wrote:
I have a suspicion that the whole Second Sky thing might possibly throw a wrench in any attempts at this point to work out the topology. Until we know more about just what *that* is...


There's an interesting point here. I'm pretty sure that the Eighth's toplogy is impossible to plot in a 3D space.

Hmm, but how hard would it be to project it into a 3d space? Like a Klein bottle, you can't actually build one, but you can build something that gives the idea of it pretty well. Or, for that matter, a drawing of a cube. Or... uh, never mind. I can't think of anything in one dimension.


Well, I'm not going to be detailed here since there are spoilers involved, but you're right, in that I don't know if it's projectable or not - maybe someone smarter than me can answer that once they have all the info - but I certainly know it can't really exist in 3D space.

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08-17-2008 at 09:14 AM
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Jatopian
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icon Re: The Eighth - topology and much weird nonsense (0)  
All I know is that Beethro is going to tell people about what's beneath Lowest Point, and then the only person to listen will be some military person, so the result will be that
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That's my theory, and I like it because it would use the Eighth's topology to make for an awesome cutscene.

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08-17-2008 at 09:30 AM
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Briareos
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icon Re: The Eighth - topology and much weird nonsense (0)  
quote:
Jatopian wrote:
[...]it would use the Eighth's topology to make for an awesome cutscene.

Whoa - we don't even know yet if the eight can be projected into 3D, and you want to reduce that even further to a 2D cutscene? :D

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08-17-2008 at 10:56 AM
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Pinnacle
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icon Re: The Eighth - topology and much weird nonsense (+1)  
TCB ENDING SPOILERS
Click here to view the secret text


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[Last edited by Pinnacle at 08-18-2008 01:17 AM : typo]
08-17-2008 at 11:33 PM
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silver
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icon Re: The Eighth - topology and much weird nonsense (0)  
gravity has to work differently in that universe, anyway, or else the wedge-shaped eighth would collapse into a sphere. even if it were structurally sound enough to hold a basic wedge shape, the water would all flow towards the middle, and people would notice that "down" is really "towards the middle", especially on the edges. so obviously in whatever parallel universe the eighth exists in, gravity doesn't function precisely in the way it does in this universe.

the most likely explanation is a planar gravity field. and there's no reason to suppose that crossing the plane would be impossible. and if you did cross the plane, gravity would probably be back towards the plane, just now it's "the other way" to get to it. (like, say, if you went mountain climbing off the edge of the world, you'd eventually stop climbing down and have to start climbing up. what would you get to? who knows. possibly just a lifeless underside of the world. perhaps you'd get to see the giant turtle it's sitting on? or maybe something else. who knows?)

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[Last edited by silver at 08-17-2008 11:42 PM]
08-17-2008 at 11:36 PM
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mrimer
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icon Re: The Eighth - topology and much weird nonsense (0)  
Gravity spoiler:
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08-18-2008 at 12:04 AM
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eytanz
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icon Re: The Eighth - topology and much weird nonsense (+1)  
quote:
Pinnacle wrote:
TCB ENDING SPOILERS
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Mike already answered this, but let me just add one more piece of spoilery information:

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[Last edited by eytanz at 08-18-2008 12:10 AM]
08-18-2008 at 12:10 AM
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coppro
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icon Re: The Eighth - topology and much weird nonsense (+1)  
The eighth just repeats itself over and over and over and over - it's a flat universe.
08-20-2008 at 05:10 PM
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Banjooie
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icon Re: The Eighth - topology and much weird nonsense (0)  
..It's the same surface at the bottom, isn't it.
08-21-2008 at 04:26 AM
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eytanz
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quote:
Banjooie wrote:
..It's the same surface at the bottom, isn't it.


That depends on what you mean:

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[Last edited by eytanz at 08-21-2008 10:45 AM]
08-21-2008 at 10:28 AM
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Banjooie
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...So, uh.

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08-22-2008 at 08:14 AM
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eytanz
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I think so. Though it's unlikely you could get a clear view.

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08-22-2008 at 08:49 AM
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Chaco
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Huh. That implies that

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08-22-2008 at 10:41 AM
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silver
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I don't think I buy this theory -- because then calling it the _second_ sky would be completely wrong. which is fine if only characters say it, but the "box" says it and shouldn't be lying to us.


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[Last edited by silver at 08-22-2008 11:03 AM]
08-22-2008 at 11:03 AM
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eytanz
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quote:
silver wrote:
I don't think I buy this theory -- because then calling it the _second_ sky would be completely wrong. which is fine if only characters say it, but the "box" says it and shouldn't be lying to us.



Theory?

As to whether or not the term "second sky" is accurate - well, if you go to the moon and look at the sky, so that you can see the Earth floating there - is that the same sky or a different one from if you stand on Earth and see the moon?

(Oh, and I should point out that King Dugan's Dungeon turned out to not really serve King Dugan at all, but rather the 'neather; does that make KDD's title a lie?)

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08-22-2008 at 11:39 AM
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Rabscuttle
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icon Re: The Eighth - topology and much weird nonsense (+2)  
quote:
eytanz wrote:
quote:
silver wrote:
I don't think I buy this theory -- because then calling it the _second_ sky would be completely wrong. which is fine if only characters say it, but the "box" says it and shouldn't be lying to us.



Theory?

As to whether or not the term "second sky" is accurate - well, if you go to the moon and look at the sky, so that you can see the Earth floating there - is that the same sky or a different one from if you stand on Earth and see the moon?

(Oh, and I should point out that King Dugan's Dungeon turned out to not really serve King Dugan at all, but rather the 'neather; does that make KDD's title a lie?)


Yes!

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08-22-2008 at 01:10 PM
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silver
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icon Re: The Eighth - topology and much weird nonsense (0)  
King Dugan "owned" it, the Neather was a trespasser, JtRH really was the beginning of Beethro's journey, the City is plainly beneath the surface, if you go into an airplane and look down, you're looking at the same sky, and until the game is published, everything is a theory because you never know what might get changed in the next one to three years. At least, that's my story and what I'm sticking to for now :)


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08-22-2008 at 04:41 PM
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eytanz
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quote:
silver wrote:
King Dugan "owned" it, the Neather was a trespasser, JtRH really was the beginning of Beethro's journey, the City is plainly beneath the surface, if you go into an airplane and look down, you're looking at the same sky,


The distance is more in line with the moon than an airplane.

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[Last edited by eytanz at 08-22-2008 05:45 PM]
08-22-2008 at 05:44 PM
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silver
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icon Re: The Eighth - topology and much weird nonsense (+1)  
sure, but
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08-23-2008 at 12:13 AM
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eytanz
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icon Re: The Eighth - topology and much weird nonsense (+1)  
Good point, that. Worth thinking about.

Mike wasn't wrong. But there are factors at play that have not yet been mentioned in this thread (nor will they be).

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08-23-2008 at 12:29 AM
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Syntax
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Turtles?
08-23-2008 at 01:05 AM
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coppro
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icon Re: The Eighth - topology and much weird nonsense (0)  
Huh? You mean astrochelonians?
08-23-2008 at 02:59 AM
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