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Sillyman
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slimm tom wrote:
For all people without XBOXes, Braid released on PC yesterday!

This just made my day. And now I am downloading it and hoping wine will work.

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FNORD
04-11-2009 at 08:17 PM
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Snacko
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I really hope someone mods it to make a level editor.

Anyway, I'm overjoyed that such a wonderful piece of postmodernism is now on the PC.

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04-11-2009 at 10:35 PM
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slimm tom
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icon Re: Braid (0)  
There's a level editor, Jonathan confirmed that in a comment on his blog. It's just not advertised.
04-11-2009 at 10:37 PM
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Snacko
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Holy...crap...

Anyway, I'd like to say that my stance on the ending has changed: not only was my interpretation far too literal, but everyone should decide what Braid means to them.

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04-11-2009 at 10:41 PM
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Sillyman
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It worked. I played it. I didn't take much heed at all of the story. What can I say, I'm not an art critic, I don't much like "deep" things. What interests me more is the gameplay: pretty sweet. And of course, meta is always nice. And that last statement was metameta. And that last statement was metametameta. And those three last statements were suggestive of an infinite recursion of meta, which once might perhaps call meta^aleph-null. Oh yes, I went there.

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FNORD
04-12-2009 at 12:49 AM
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NiroZ
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Snacko wrote:
Anyway, I'm overjoyed that such a wonderful piece of postmodernism is now on the PC.
My admittedly poor understanding of postmodernism is that's it's a perspective, a method of deconstruction. Thus that sentence angers and confuses me.
04-12-2009 at 04:43 AM
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Snacko
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Postmodernism is not so easily defined.

Anyway, a postmodern work would obviously be a work that exhibits qualities of postmodernism.

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04-12-2009 at 07:52 AM
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NiroZ
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Your not the first to say that.

What postmodern qualities does it exhibit? In terms of themes, no need to spoil the plot.
04-12-2009 at 08:11 AM
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Snacko
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First we'll need a working definition of postmodernism, note that I subscribe to the belief that the barriers between modernism and postmodernism are largely artificial and based purely on era.

Distilling things to their most general form, the modernist movement was a movement that mostly consisted of experiments in moving away from a dominant, commercial Victorian style (and one that was not altogether revolutionary, just pick up a Harry Potter book to see what I mean).

Thing really kicked off in the literary world in 1919 when Sherwood Anderson published his novel Winesburg, Ohio serially, but the movement exploded over 10 years later when James Joyce wrote Ulysses, a truly bizarre, almost unreadable and truly brilliant parody of Homer's Odyssey. There is one chapter where one of the protagonists walks to the beach, picks his nose, writes poetry ideas in the sand, sees a dog pee on a rock and then pees on that very rock in the book's second most famous episode. The most famous lasts only for only 8 sentences, but still manages to be some 26-odd pages long.

I'm not sure exactly when historians place the beginning of the postmodern movement, but I know that Catch-22(1955), a parody of both Homer's Iliad and of the typical sterilized approach to the very barbaric concept of war, is classified as Modern while The Crying of Lot 49 (exactly eleven years later in 1966), a parody of more or less everything (as expected of the typically messy Pynchon) is considered Postmodern. I also know that for some reason, no one but Virginia Woolf believed that Virginia Woolf was a Modern writer.

Essentially, the two terms can mean anything, but my decision to classify Braid as Postmodern is due to certain patterns, although patterns perhaps go against the entire idea of the two movements.

Braid is not so much postmodern in theme as much as style. It rejects the idea of a central plot (and goes even farther than the most famous example of this decision, Gravity's Rainbow in that the separate stories don't literally occur in the same timeline) or even any real clarity on the bits and pieces we are afforded.

Every world begins with a row of books. The exact distance between these books indicate how closely related they are. With one notable exception (which I'll get to later), these stories are mostly independent of each other. However, each story involves a protagonist obsessed with finding something called the Princess. If said protagonist is given a name, it is always Tim. Many people take this to mean that they are all the same person, this is not true, if it was Tim would exist both in the Mushroom Kingdom and in 1940's America.

Perhaps he does.

Most of the game is spent inside the essence of these stories, all silhouetted against the archetype of the hero saving a princess from some kind of monster, the main struggle of the text represented through a gameplay element unique to that specific world (the sole exception is World 2, the first one you visit, that power is present in all the other levels). Hence, these completely separate stories are Braided together by this metagame, and one other that I won't spoil on these boards. Send me a PM if you want to know what, but that would kind of defeat the purpose of finding them in the first place.

On the first page are my thoughts on the Epilogue, but be warned that it not only contains massive spoilers, but I grasped at straws in order to satisfy my desire to pin down the story as one concrete, traditional string of events. Don't make that mistake, you and only you should be able to decide what Braid means to you.

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04-12-2009 at 04:46 PM
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NiroZ
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You could have just said that it's postmodern as it rejects the conventions of a central storyline, while playing on the rescue the princess theme. With an ending that nobody is quite sure what it means.
04-13-2009 at 01:44 AM
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Jacob
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Yeah, but his answer was more interesting.

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04-13-2009 at 01:46 AM
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Snacko
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I could have said that, but that would be making a claim with no evidence, like when someone posts their opinion, inserts a page break and says, "Discuss".

And the ending is by far the most straightforward part of the game.

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04-13-2009 at 05:00 AM
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NiroZ
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Well of what I've played of it so far, I've got this to say. It isn't so much of a platformer as a puzzle game. And a puzzle game that really screws with your head.

Second, some of the puzzles are really tedious, others I'm not ashamed of looking up a walkthrough for, as solving required using an entirely new puzzle element seen nowhere else (AFAIK). I also wish the game would have spent a bit more time explaining things.

It is interesting, however, to have a game which is based, whether the creator knows it or not, on Piaget's Cognitive Development Theory. Which is indeed a very cheap, yet effective method of teaching. This assumption is as much based upon his walkthrough as much as the game style. Don't worry about reading it spoiling anything. It's a very particular walkthrough.

But I'm not exactly impressed with this learning style, as Vygotsky, it appears, has a superior learning theory, and I'd have much preferred the creator used that, if he was going to inflict his ideology on us, the player.

What this boils down to is that the creator setup the game as an open sandbox, with one goal, and allowed the player to muck around, with little fear of failure (although then he breaks that concept a couple of times, frustratingly). Whereas I'd have much preferred a couple of hand holding levels that show the player how things work, as well as all the implications, and then let us problem solve based on our knowledge.

Because instead I've had to improvise with a walkthrough in order to understand the subtleties of the gameplay.
04-13-2009 at 10:32 AM
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NiroZ
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Not to mention that the fake doors are just sadistic and confusing. The first time I came across one I thought I'd run into a bug.
04-13-2009 at 10:49 AM
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NiroZ
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Interesting ending. Kinda like neon evangelion's ending, except it makes sense, and everything leading up to it appears more like something that built towards the ending, rather than being frivious. I liked it.
04-13-2009 at 01:34 PM
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Znirk
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Braid, now in the process of being taken off Carl Muckenhoupt's stack.

Actually his review puts a substantial damper on my interest in Braid -- could someone give me a guesstimate on how important knowing Super Mario brothers is to "getting" Braid?

[Last edited by Znirk at 04-13-2009 11:43 PM]
04-13-2009 at 11:43 PM
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Sillyman
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A great many scattered injokes, nothing crucial. So yeah, it's unimportant.

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FNORD
04-14-2009 at 01:21 AM
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NiroZ
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I played it and I didn't realise that I was missing out on SMB injokes. So i'd say it's not a big issue.
04-14-2009 at 10:33 AM
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NiroZ
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Oh, by the ways, there's a demo out.
http://braid-game.com/news/?p=565
04-14-2009 at 11:21 AM
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Snacko
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Nothing vital to understanding the story, story-wise, the only important joke is SMB's story, essentially a plumber rescues a princess from a turtle. That's it.

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04-14-2009 at 12:19 PM
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Sillyman
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And, of course, "your princess is in another castle".

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FNORD
04-14-2009 at 05:29 PM
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Snacko
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Snacko wrote:
Nothing vital to understanding the story, story-wise, the only important joke is SMB's story, essentially a plumber rescues a princess from a turtle. That's it.

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04-14-2009 at 06:28 PM
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slimm tom
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Okay, just got all stars and saw the alternate ending.

Wow.

I'm shocked.

Snacko's explanation on the first page is a very good explanation of the story, and I think I'm going to settle with it.

What else is there to the game now to do? The speed runs of course, but are there any other 'secrets'?

And oh man, I'd wish they'd release a soundtrack.
04-20-2009 at 08:03 PM
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NiroZ
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is the alternative ending any good.?
04-21-2009 at 12:24 AM
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Snacko
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I greatly prefer my second explanation, my first simply applies to the epilogue.

The alternative ending, I think, is intentionally underwhelming. Obsession is a very important theme throughout the game. The stars are all found in such obscure, hard-to-reach places getting them truly amounts to an obsession by the player. Remember the epilogue relates to the final level: sure, he finds the princess: so what? For the scientist the bomb detonates and it is done, for you there is nothing to do but read the epilogue again.

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04-21-2009 at 01:11 AM
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slimm tom
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I just found the soundtrack for the game on MagnaTune, where the music is originally from. The best part is that you choose what you pay. Yeah, that's right, it could be anywhere from 5 to 20 or more bucks, just decide what it's worth for you.

[Last edited by slimm tom at 04-21-2009 06:11 PM]
04-21-2009 at 06:08 PM
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Jatopian
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Well, I got this game finally, and beat it. I really think it would have been more fun if they'd bothered to explain the game mechanics a little more. "Guess the mechanic" is not a fun sort of puzzle.

It would also be nice if the story made more sense now than it did in World 2. :|

I don't see any hints anywhere that there's an alternate ending, only a newly enabled "speedrun" option which is a heck-no-are-you-crazy as far as I'm concerned. How do I start working toward that?

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03-16-2011 at 03:18 PM
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Maurog
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The first step of working towards the alternate ending involves going out and looking up. When the missing pieces are found, you can do something in the regular ending that you couldn't before.

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03-16-2011 at 07:42 PM
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TripleM
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In all honesty, the first step towards the alternate ending is reading a walkthrough. Because you won't have a hope of figuring it out yourself :)
03-16-2011 at 08:05 PM
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Snacko
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Also restarting. There's something you can (and most likely will) do early game that makes the alternate ending impossible to get.

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