vittro
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Thin walls make an exception in the DROD grid world. They can only be placed on the lines of the grid, not on the cells. Beethro's sword may pass over thin walls, but Beethro can't pass. Everything else that can't pass on wall, won't pass on a thin wall. Thin wall are obiously avaible in all the direction and can be connected. When you're placing them in the editor, the editing mode will change, forcing you to place on the lines of the grid.

Here's an example:


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[Last edited by vittro at 08-30-2007 12:13 AM]

zonhin
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vittro wrote:
Thin walls make an exception in the DROD grid world. They can only be placed on the lines of the grid, not on the cells. Beethro's sword may pass over thin walls, but Beethro can't pass. Everything else that can't pass on wall, won't pass on a thin wall. Thin wall are obiously avaible in all the direction and can be connected. When you're placing them in the editor, the editing mode will change, forcing you to place on the lines of the grid.

Here's an example:

That's not the non-main problem. I don't think that it doesn't not add much to the game either.

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Jatopian
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Er... first reaction is "what is this, Chip's Challenge?".

Probably not worthwhile IMO.

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kyevan
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Can I add some requests? Ice, water, fire, force floors, realtime mode, keys, key-doors, boots, more monsters, bear traps, pushable blocks, dirt, gravel, cloning machines, randomish teliports, fake walls, invisible walls...

No, now it's CC. Which is utterly awesome, but not DROD

Kwakstur
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Okay, for a second there, I misunderstood the above post and took it seriously. Nevermind.

vittro wrote:
Thin walls make an exception in the DROD grid world. They can only be placed on the lines of the grid, not on the cells. Beethro's sword may pass over thin walls, but Beethro can't pass. Everything else that can't pass on wall, won't pass on a thin wall. Thin wall are obiously avaible in all the direction and can be connected. When you're placing them in the editor, the editing mode will change, forcing you to place on the lines of the grid.

What sets them apart from normal walls with ortho squares?

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[Last edited by Kwakstur at 08-30-2007 12:47 AM]

zonhin
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Kwakstur wrote:

kyevan wrote:
Can I add some requests?

I would suggest making your own topic and putting them all in it (with brief descriptions). But hijacking another person's thread is usually frowned upon.

If you bothered to read his post, you'd know that he was joking.

____________________________
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I danced with the peanut butterflies
Till time went and told me to say hello but wave goodbye

Kwakstur
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zonhin wrote:

Kwakstur wrote:

kyevan wrote:
Can I add some requests?

I would suggest making your own topic and putting them all in it (with brief descriptions). But hijacking another person's thread is usually frowned upon.

If you bothered to read his post, you'd know that he was joking.

I'm surprised you managed to quote that.

I posted it, realized what he meant, and then immediately edited my post before it did damage. You managed to quote it in the 5 seconds it was there.

Then I edited it again a minute later to include the other sentence at the top.

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[Last edited by Kwakstur at 08-30-2007 12:52 AM]

vittro
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Kwakstur wrote:
What sets them apart from normal walls with ortho squares?

That's possible only diagonally...

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Kwakstur
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Well, you do have to realize that your example is diagonal, and these walls don't seem to serve any purpose at all if horizontal or diagonal.

Unless you mean that horizontal walls be between two tiles instead of on a tile. Then you're asking for the entire DROD engine to be changed. That's too much.

EDIT: However, take a look at the Delver and the Roach puzzle in Sunken Pyramid. It shows that you can script a way to simulate walls inbetween tiles, even though it isn't quite worth the unnatural feel.
But it's better than completely changing DROD.

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[Last edited by Kwakstur at 08-30-2007 01:07 AM]

Chaco
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WWWWW
WWWWW
..T..
WWWWW
WWWWW

Tunnel is facing either east or west, with no other tunnel in the same row. Player can step on, but cannot go beyond tunnel, but a sword could go into the square beyond and smite monsters.

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vittro
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kyevan wrote:
Can I add some requests? Ice, water, fire, force floors, realtime mode, keys, key-doors, boots, more monsters, bear traps, pushable blocks, dirt, gravel, cloning machines, randomish teliports, fake walls, invisible walls...

No, now it's CC. Which is utterly awesome, but not DROD

Ice = Scripting + custom floor and sheated Beethro. Basically you control the direction of Beethro, make it player role None, and teleport it (slippery ice) on the other side.

Water = Duh.

Fire = Hot tiles? Custom npc that makes mimic appear when Beethro goes near it?

Force floor = What?

Realtime mode = Hahaha... Oh wow.

Keys = Scripting with variables.

Key-doors = Scripting with variables.

Boots = To pass on ice/fire? Just a variable and an addition to ice/fire scripts.

More monsters = Scripting, imperative deadly, custom graphic and some good ideas.

Bear traps = Custom floor with appearing mimics.

Pushable block = Mirrors? Also possible with scripting anyway.

Dirt = Custom floor. Or if you want to clean it bumping in it, just a npc with custom graphics.

Gravel = Custom wall. Custom graphics npc.

Cloning machines = Use custom wall to draw the machine, then add a clone potion with darkness on it.

Randomish teleports = Possible, just have the method used by "Chomp" hold, then player role None and appear at.

Fake walls = Breaking walls. Secret walls.

Invisible walls = Custom graphics npcs.


Basically, all the things you said are already implemented in DROD, except real time. You made me inspired, I may do a little hold later.


Edit : Good idea Chaco.

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[Last edited by vittro at 08-30-2007 01:09 AM]

Kwakstur
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Chaco wrote:
WWWWW
WWWWW
..T..
WWWWW
WWWWW


Tunnel is facing either east or west, with no other tunnel in the same row. Player can step on, but cannot go beyond tunnel, but a sword could go into the square beyond and smite monsters.

Nice, but the roach can only go on one side of the simulated wall. And the player can cross from the other side.


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[Last edited by Kwakstur at 08-30-2007 01:12 AM]

zonhin
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vittro wrote:
Words.

Vittro.

A) He was joking. I already went over this with Kwakstur.

B) Just because you can script it doesn't mean it's worthwile.

____________________________
I looked at the world through apple eyes
And cut myself a slice of sunshine pie
I danced with the peanut butterflies
Till time went and told me to say hello but wave goodbye

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[Last edited by zonhin at 08-30-2007 01:15 AM]

vittro
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Actually, there's no reason to re-write the game engine. Thinking again, you could have a cell that can only be approached by X direction, but not by X direction, and can be left only by X direction. Changing the cell's direction changes the X directions...

P.S. Zohnin, I'm not stupid, I know that's related with CC and he was joking. I was just pointing out that those elements could've been made with scripting.

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[Last edited by vittro at 08-30-2007 01:25 AM]

zonhin
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zonhin wrote:

vittro wrote:
Words.

B) Just because you can script it doesn't mean it's worthwile.

The real point of my post.

____________________________
I looked at the world through apple eyes
And cut myself a slice of sunshine pie
I danced with the peanut butterflies
Till time went and told me to say hello but wave goodbye

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[Last edited by zonhin at 08-30-2007 01:30 AM]

coppro
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A feature like this could easily be added to a single square, rather than directly between (for those of you who've played Roller Coaster Tycoon or a sequel (original's the best imo), it's kind of like the fences. They are associated with each grid point, not with the line in between). The code used for force arrows could easily be adapted for these walls.

tailchaser
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File: horizontal.png (1.7 KB)
Downloaded 371 times.
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From: Screenshot from DROD:AE

It's actually possible to make a room that behaves like it has thin walls without using scripting, but just using rows of force arrows in opposite directions, like in the attached screenshot.



Once you're inside the arrows, you can freely move horizontally, but cannot move to another horizontal row. It duplicates the effect of having thin walls between each row.

Admittedly, this doesn't look very good, and it would look flat-out hideous if you tried to make anything like the maze of thin walls that Chip's Challenge had around (I think) level 30, but it is something that can be done with pre-existent elements.

Also, I think it makes more sense in-world for Beethro and a roach to be standing next to each other, on force arrows that prevent either of them from moving closer to each other, and for Beethro to be able to bring his sword around to stab the roach, than for Beethro to be able to stick his sword right through a thin wall to stab a roach on the other side, but not be able to just knock down the wall like a regular breakable wall....


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[Last edited by tailchaser at 08-30-2007 03:05 AM : Added an img tag to display the image in the message body]

TFMurphy
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tailchaser wrote:
Admittedly, this doesn't look very good, and it would look flat-out hideous if you tried to make anything like the maze of thin walls that Chip's Challenge had around (I think) level 30, but it is something that can be done with pre-existent elements.

No, it can't really be done. Your example is a highly specialised case that doesn't even fully simulate three horizontal "thin walls"; there's all sorts of differences regarding diagonal movement out of and into that zone that wouldn't exist with thin walls. Not to mention that there's stuff that a thin wall could do that simply wouldn't be possible with Force Arrows in the same place: you couldn't, for example, have a 1-tile wide corridor with a thin-wall blocking it such that only swords could kill over it. The closest you can come is to use Force Arrows or Orthosquares and have the two neighbouring tiles diagonally adjacent to each other, but the entrace to those tiles be orthogonal. That way, you could enter and exit the bordering tiles, but couldn't cross into the neighbouring one. And a maze of these things is right out: a Force Arrow maze has far different mechanics.

Also, I think it makes more sense in-world for Beethro and a roach to be standing next to each other, on force arrows that prevent either of them from moving closer to each other, and for Beethro to be able to bring his sword around to stab the roach, than for Beethro to be able to stick his sword right through a thin wall to stab a roach on the other side, but not be able to just knock down the wall like a regular breakable wall....

And yet, Beethro can kill Seep and all sorts of other things that just happen to be inhabiting a wall, regardless of whether they can walk on it or not....

I'm not saying I'm backing this idea, but really, it's nowhere near 100% reproducable with current elements.

starwed
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The logical extension to the current game would be a generalization of orthosquare. Rather than a force barrier which prevents motions only along the four diagonal directions, you'd be able to choose arbitrary combinations of force barriers in each of the 8 boundaries of the square.

To do this without changing the way the game treats layers, simply have 255 possible force layer squares! And then:
*Simply give the player a palette with all of them!
*Or... have the game internally use a set of 255 possible force layer squares, but let the editor be smart enough that an architect can choose which one they want fairly easily.

To be honest, simply a set of 4 force squares which each block one of the 4 orthagonal directions would be enough for most of the interesting setups, if two adjacent squares (forming a wall) also blocked the diagonal motion.

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[Last edited by starwed at 08-30-2007 04:40 AM]

Kwakstur
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255? Well, I could just tell you right now that 4^4 is not 255, but I might as well explain your confusion.

You're thinking of a byte. Remember this: In a byte, there are 256 possible combinations.

But since one of those combinations is 0, then that means the highest number is 255.

Combinations-256
Highest number-255


Fine, I'll admit it. Sigh. Yes, I am making a large post that criticizes your bad math because I have nothing good to contribute, and thus have no premise for any other type of large post.There goes my pride.

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[Last edited by Kwakstur at 08-30-2007 04:50 AM]

TFMurphy
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Kwakstur wrote:
Fine, I'll admit it. Sigh. Yes, I am making a large post that criticizes your bad math because I have nothing good to contribute, and thus have no premise for any other type of large post.There goes my pride.

Who says it was bad math? A more generous explaination would simply be the practicality of it: there is no point in identifying the combination of 0 walls as a Force Layer Square. So there's the 255 combinations of 1 or more walls to make up a Force Layer Tile.

Kwakstur
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TFMurphy wrote:

Kwakstur wrote:
Fine, I'll admit it. Sigh. Yes, I am making a large post that criticizes your bad math because I have nothing good to contribute, and thus have no premise for any other type of large post.There goes my pride.

Who says it was bad math? A more generous explaination would simply be the practicality of it: there is no point in identifying the combination of 0 walls as a Force Layer Square. So there's the 255 combinations of 1 or more walls to make up a Force Layer Tile.

First of all, there was no other word I could find besides "bad", which is why I then insulted myself to take the attention away from the word "bad." Didn't work, huh?

And second of all,

I can't make it much bigger while still being acceptably legible.

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[Last edited by Kwakstur at 08-30-2007 05:14 AM]

golfrman
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I didn't realise you could right that

Tahnan
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Kwakstur wrote:
...I have nothing good to contribute...

Perhaps simply contributing nothing would be preferable?

Kwakstur
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Everybody's a critic.

Edit: (>.< It was a joke...)

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[Last edited by Kwakstur at 08-30-2007 08:16 PM]