Announcement: Why not try our official idea generator for inspiration when making puzzles?

Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Hold size
 New Topic New Poll Post Reply
Poster Message
calamarain
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 933
Registered: 03-25-2007
IP: Logged
 icon Hold size (0)  
I'm considering doing another hold. What I primarily want to do is a Smitemaster's Selection, but I'm not quite good enough at hold building to do that :P Last one got a 7.4/10 and I need to be able to design holds that are at least 8/10 before I can even submit. So this is my next attempt, to make a better hold.

One thing I tried to do last time was to make it too big, and so I made too many "filler" rooms which made the hold quite... mundane, despite all the surface polish.

So my question...

What's a good size to work on? Assume that I'm doing TCB, and that I'll be using all elements except Halph and Builders, with only minimal scripted creations. Perhaps rotating mimics, but no more.

40 rooms? 80 rooms?

____________________________
My Holds
Click here to view the secret text
07-30-2007 at 02:33 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Dex Stewart
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 355
Registered: 01-19-2007
IP: Logged
 icon Re: Hold size (0)  
I think any architect which is not yet an expert(and by that I mean *really* an expert) should stick to smaller holds, as to not be forced to do too many rooms based on the same quality, as there is only that much one can ask of him. As an example, my upcoming hold will only have 16 rooms, and a tester already mentioned that it's a bit repetitive.
07-30-2007 at 03:38 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1670
Registered: 12-23-2005
IP: Logged
 icon Re: Hold size (0)  
Some of the best holds are small. If you look at the non-SMS output of the architects who are already doing SMS holds (Larrymurk, Jacob, Doom), I think you'll see that they've done holds that tend to the small to very small. (Although there are exceptions -- Nightmare Dungeon is pretty large). Larry's holds are usually three or four levels, six to eight puzzle rooms per level.

The advantage of this is that it allows you to choose a theme for the hold, which can make the player experience more enjoyable.

Which isn't to say that there aren't some great large holds out there -- but I think they're harder to pull off, and I for one do not consider a large hold to be automatically better than a small one.

Josh

[EDIT: Just an extra comment -- yes, I left eytanz and Oneiromancer out of the list of SMS providers. This is because they're on the DROD dev team, so don't have a lot of independent output. Although what there is is pretty good...]

____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck
[Last edited by jbluestein at 07-30-2007 06:45 PM]
07-30-2007 at 04:09 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Yellow_Mage
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 267
Registered: 05-19-2004
IP: Logged
 icon Re: Hold size (0)  
Generously around 50 rooms.

____________________________
"Sit and daydream, and watch the changing color of the waves that break upon the idle seashore of the mind." - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow


Click here to view the secret text
07-30-2007 at 06:00 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
calamarain
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 933
Registered: 03-25-2007
IP: Logged
 icon Re: Hold size (0)  
I'll make a small hold then. Just something to practice my techniques and get better and better.

____________________________
My Holds
Click here to view the secret text
07-31-2007 at 06:11 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
The spitemaster
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 354
Registered: 06-09-2005
IP: Logged
 icon Re: Hold size (0)  
Another problem with large holds is that it is very hard to get them bug free. Partly because of the size and partly because people lose interest.

____________________________
Last night upon a stair
I met a man that wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish that man would stay away
08-03-2007 at 04:14 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Visit Homepage Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3752
Registered: 10-01-2004
IP: Logged
 icon Re: Hold size (+1)  
It goes without saying that quality is better than quantity. If you're confident you can make a 500 room hold with 500 superb rooms, then go for it. But if you can only think of 20 great rooms, then make your hold 20 rooms long.
Case in point is Larrymurk. He has several holds with only 1 to 4 puzzles a level. But they're of very good quality.
Of course there are other factors to consider - if you can think of 20 superb but very hard puzzles, it's probably a good idea to add in some easier rooms so the player doesn't give up and abandon your hold.

____________________________
New to DROD? You may want to read this.
My Holds and Levels:
Click here to view the secret text
08-03-2007 at 07:17 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
calamarain
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 933
Registered: 03-25-2007
IP: Logged
 icon Re: Hold size (0)  
Good advice. If a puzzle doesn't seem original then it's not worth putting in. e.g a tar maze puzzle won't be good... but a puzzle where you have to manipulate a goblin through a constantly regrowing tar maze might be more interesting.

____________________________
My Holds
Click here to view the secret text
08-03-2007 at 07:56 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3752
Registered: 10-01-2004
IP: Logged
 icon Re: Hold size (0)  
Interesting, yes. Original, yes. But "constantly regrowing tar maze" is not something most DRODders want to hear! :)

Edit: Actually, I can see how that might be a very cool room. You have to clear a bit of tar, time it so that the goblin becomes trapped, freeing you to clear another area, then release the goblin and repeat. The puzzle being at which points you need to trap the goblin and where you need to clear and get him to next.

____________________________
New to DROD? You may want to read this.
My Holds and Levels:
Click here to view the secret text

[Last edited by Jacob at 08-03-2007 08:04 PM]
08-03-2007 at 08:02 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
New Topic New Poll Post Reply
Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Hold size
Surf To:


Forum Rules:
Can I post a new topic? No
Can I reply? No
Can I read? Yes
HTML Enabled? No
UBBC Enabled? Yes
Words Filter Enable? No

Contact Us | CaravelGames.com

Powered by: tForum tForumHacks Edition b0.98.9
Originally created by Toan Huynh (Copyright © 2000)
Enhanced by the tForumHacks team and the Caravel team.