Krissan
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Ok, so what is this?
Ok, this is an attempt to vote for the forum's Top 100 list of movies, proving once and for all that the average IMDB user have no clue.

How does it work?
The idea is that all who wishes to participate writes down a ranked list of 10-50 movies. I will then count the votes, and summarize a nice descriptive top list after the deadline. The amount of movies in your list is important, as it determines the number of points they will receive. If you send a list of 50 movies, your #1 will get 50 points, #2 will get 49, and so on. If you only send in 20 movies, your #1 will get 50, then 49, and so on. I've put 50 as the maximum for practical reasons.

Why?
Drod.net is a pretty niched community, and a smaller crowd will leave room for cult movies to appear in the top list. Hopefully, it will provide some recommendations for movies you've never heard of. Plus, it's always fun to make lists.

I will not set a deadline date yet, since I want to see how many are interested in doing this. Also, I decided to put it under the "Forum Games" section, but if the mods feel like it should be under "Anything", feel free to move the thread.

When your list is final, please PM it to me. Everyone can participate, and this thread should be used for movie discussion and recommendations. Once the voting is over, I'll start a result thread.

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[Last edited by Krissan at 07-22-2007 12:42 PM]

Krissan
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Links
Must See Movies (forum thread)
IMDB Top 250
1001 Movies You Must See Before You Die

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Tahnan
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Sna? I'd say that the more movies on your list, the fewer points you should get for it. If I can limit my list to five that I adore, and someone else can't winnow their list below 50, why are mine penalized?

Krissan
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Tahnan wrote:
Sna? I'd say that the more movies on your list, the fewer points you should get for it. If I can limit my list to five that I adore, and someone else can't winnow their list below 50, why are mine penalized?

I disagree, since it would be a ranked list in both cases. Having 50 instead of 5 doesn't mean you can't cut your 50 list at the five mark, it just says that you have a top five list, and after that a top 6-50 list. Having 50 movies per person gives a more exhaustive end list, instead of a ranking of which Lord of the Rings and Star Wars movie we all found to be the best

Basically, the option to send in fewer films is a scapegoat for those who wish to participate but don't want to go through the trouble of making such a large list. The standard goal would be for everyone to send in 50 names, with a small side-option.

Judging by the up-modding of your post though, people seem to find it to be a good idea. How about this instead: If you only send in one movie - it gets fifty points. Two movies 50+49, and so on, up till the aforementioned max of 50? In that way, everybody's favourite film gets 50 points, which would be more fair come to think about it.

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Anyway, here are some movies I'll include on my list that I recommend to everyone:

Salò
Italian director Pasolini's last movie. He was murdered shortly after it was finished, with speculations of it being for political reasons. The movie is often overlooked or underrated as a gross, pointless and bizarre piece made to chock, but it's the biggest F-U to all authority in general and italian fascism in particular I have ever seen. Banned in it's homecountry upon it's release, it remains as an important art piece for freedom of speech and protest against cruelty and fascism.

Cidade de Deus/City of God
Brazilian masterpiece about two young boys growing up in the lower class areas of Rio de Janeiro. Gang violence, crushed dreams and a will to escape it all in a beautiful mix. Very heavy film, a sequel was recently made (in the form of a mini series called City of Men), but I haven't seen that one.

The Wall
Not a traditional movie, but still something I'd recommend to anyone. The whole movie is based on the Pink Floyd album The Wall, and it's more like a 95 minute long music video than anything else. The movie tells the tale of young Pink, an english boy who loses his father in the war and grows up building a mental wall around him, shielding him from the outer world. Heavy theme, with beautiful scenery and a killer soundtrack. Should be viewed if only for the music.



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Maurog
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Out of curiosity, how will you calculate the final result out of that random bunch of lists you're gonna get?

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Krissan
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Maurog wrote:
Out of curiosity, how will you calculate the final result out of that random bunch of lists you're gonna get?

Practically? I don't think that will be a problem. Probably using Excel or some self-made program. Or by hand, it's not that hard.

The whole idea is stolen from a pro wrestling board I frequent by the way, where it's annually made for Match of the Year and similar votings.


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Briareos
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Why give each of the movies points at all instead of just counting the votes?

You can't compare people's standards and ideas of what makes a movie n-th place material anyway, and those top x lists usually are by quantity, or at least some x/y score...

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Krissan
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Briareos wrote:
Why give each of the movies points at all instead of just counting the votes?

You can't compare people's standards and ideas of what makes a movie n-th place material anyway, and those top x lists usually are by quantity, or at least some x/y score...

In the end, your personal taste will always decide what's your favourite movie, not any list anywhere. I'm not arguing with that.

I just thought it would be a nice idea to try and find what the forum's "average" top list would look like, since it would also be a good opportunity to learn about cult movies you might have missed (as a smaller crowd makes it more probable cult films will end up in the list). It's just meant as a fun little voting, no plan on making it the be all end all of good movies.

If people are interested, I'd gladly continue it, but if there's no interest at all (as hinted by the lack of optimism), it's not a big deal and I'll drop the thread.



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Briareos
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Krissan wrote:
If people are interested, I'd gladly continue it, but if there's no interest at all (as hinted by the lack of optimism), it's not a big deal and I'll drop the thread.

Oh, I'm interested, but I just don't think variable list lenghts is going to work well...

IMHO, if a list with 50 items gives scores from 50 to 1, a list with 5 items should also distribute the score evenly over 5 points in the 50 to 1 range, but that's going to be ugly...

EDIT: Also, the bit about "the average IMDb user not having a clue" is silly, since you can't compare the tens of votes you might get here to the millions of votes on IMDb...

np: Seefeel - Charlotte's Mouth (Avant Garde Mix) (Quique Redux Edition (Disc 2))

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[Last edited by Briareos at 07-22-2007 01:54 PM]

Maurog
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Krissan wrote:
Practically? I don't think that will be a problem. Probably using Excel or some self-made program. Or by hand, it's not that hard.

Yes, that definitely answered my question.

What I meant is:
If someone introduces a truly great movie nobody else ever heard of, will its score be divided be the number of lists submitted and therefore lost in obscurity? Or, restructuring the equasion a bit, will popular movies sneak into top places just because everyone watched them? On the other hand, will introducing a rather crappy obscure movie with a great score because it's a personal favorite will cause it to score high because it doesn't get divided?

Also, what ought to happen is people submitting lists and then wanting to change them when they see the lists of others, because they forgot some of the titles the liked. If you really want the results to be correct, you need to be able to work around that too, by either making the list of all submitted movies public, allowing resubmissions or both.

So just a warning, dumping it into Excel and expecting reliable results ain't gonna work.

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Mattcrampy
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The only solution for making a ranked list that I've seen that I can't work out its flaws is to constantly pit two random choices from a list against each other then getting the percentage chance of winning once compared against a fair sample of the group.

This is perhaps impractical, although I like the idea of getting a list by repeatedly asking that perennial question: who would win in a fight, x or y?

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Tahnan
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While I may be interested to see how it comes out, I can't say I'm interested enough to contribute a list. It seems that, once someone's submitted a list of 50, nothing on my list below about 5th place (i.e. 45 points) is likely to be relevant. (The Third Man is in 11th place on my list, giving it 40 points, but if it's not on that other person's list of 50, it's not even likely to make it into the top 20.) And if I don't take the time to dredge up--and somehow actually rank--a full list of 50, my contribution makes less and less difference.

Krissan
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Character note: You're all DROD players and optimizers. You disassemble the machine to find out how it will work, what potential and obscure flaws it might present itself with in the extreme cases and then get stranded on minor details in the mechanisms before making the smallest move. Sometimes, it's ok to just hit that orb and trust that the architect means well.

And please, don't get offended by the above. It's not said with malice intent.

EDIT: Also, the bit about "the average IMDb user not having a clue" is silly, since you can't compare the tens of votes you might get here to the millions of votes on IMDb...

Did you really take that literary? What I meant was of course that a list compiled by 10-30 DROD players probably will be different from the IMDB top 100, albeit that many titles will appear in both lists.

If someone introduces a truly great movie nobody else ever heard of, will its score be divided be the number of lists submitted and therefore lost in obscurity? Or, restructuring the equasion a bit, will popular movies sneak into top places just because everyone watched them? On the other hand, will introducing a rather crappy obscure movie with a great score because it's a personal favorite will cause it to score high because it doesn't get divided?

I'd say that your point here is the charm and point of the whole thing. No division, simply summarizing the points for each film. When starting the thread, I hoped that some 20-30ish people would submit lists by the end of it. That's a good number for allowing some obscure (great or crappy is up to you) films to sneak into the list, while the absolute top probably will be inhabitated by the usual suspects (pun intended) like Star Wars, LotR, The Godfather, etc.

Also, what ought to happen is people submitting lists and then wanting to change them when they see the lists of others, because they forgot some of the titles the liked. If you really want the results to be correct, you need to be able to work around that too, by either making the list of all submitted movies public, allowing resubmissions or both.

Resubmssions will of course be allowed, and a long deadline will be used to allow discussion and enable people to promote their personal favourites that they suspect not many have seen. To once again go back to where the idea came from: When doing this for pro wrestling matches, it gives an excellent opportunity to get recommendations for great matches from promotions you don't follow or have never heard of.

So just a warning, dumping it into Excel and expecting reliable results ain't gonna work.

Reliable in what sense? They'll be reliable within the ruleset

As said before - this is by no means an attempt to decide what movies you should consider to be the best, I get the feeling that you're taking the whole thing as more of a serious matter than a chance to learn of new movies and recommend your own favourites.

While I may be interested to see how it comes out, I can't say I'm interested enough to contribute a list. It seems that, once someone's submitted a list of 50, nothing on my list below about 5th place (i.e. 45 points) is likely to be relevant. (The Third Man is in 11th place on my list, giving it 40 points, but if it's not on that other person's list of 50, it's not even likely to make it into the top 20.) And if I don't take the time to dredge up--and somehow actually rank--a full list of 50, my contribution makes less and less difference

I get your point, but that's just a part of it. You shouldn't really expect all your picks to get into the list - but the relatively small amount of voters will actually give your low-ranked choices some chance to make it.

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NiroZ
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To be honest, I'd much rather that a whole bunch of movies were nominated, then we simply ranked them, mainly because I'm not so much of a film critic to pull 10-20 movies out of my head, and the 5 or so that I could pull wouldn't be all that accurate.

Jacob
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I like this idea. Will try to compile a list soon.

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geomatrx
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NiroZ wrote:
To be honest, I'd much rather that a whole bunch of movies were nominated, then we simply ranked them...

Again, which films are nominated?
Surprisingly, the film sites Krissan posted are very different.
There is no sign of The Godfather, The Shawshank Redemption or Pulp fiction in "1001 Movies You Must See Before You Die".
Nor did A Trip to the Moon (1902), The Great Train Robbery (1903) or The Birth of a Nation (1915) make IMDB's top 250.

How about a list of top "Alternative" films - films currently not on any great list, but we here at DROD think they should have been.

Then we can also debate whether a film should be disregarded as being "so popular, every one knows about that one!"


[EDIT]
Or how about this? Just keep Krissan's idea, but if a film is only mentioned by one person (or, say 10% of total participants), a seperate list of these lesser known films is made, with an average score based on how many times the movie was mentioned (e.g. film appears to two lists; one scored 50, the other 30, so the average would be 40).

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[Last edited by geomatrx at 07-24-2007 02:06 PM]

Ostegolectr1c
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Krissan wrote

Salò
Italian director Pasolini's last movie. He was murdered shortly after it was finished, with speculations of it being for political reasons. The movie is often overlooked or underrated as a gross, pointless and bizarre piece made to chock, but it's the biggest F-U to all authority in general and italian fascism in particular I have ever seen. Banned in it's homecountry upon it's release, it remains as an important art piece for freedom of speech and protest against cruelty and fascism.

I agree with you on this movie. One of the last few great italian movies. Too bad the director didn't live to offer us more. I'd also add Dario Argento's Suspiria and Inferno. I wait for the third part Mother Of Tears of the series.

I like Kar Wai Wong's trilogy Days Of Being Wild, In The Mood For Love and 2046.

Also Jean Eustache's The Mother And The Whore. Great movie.


Aswell, i have a question: has anyone ever seen this movie ?

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[Last edited by Ostegolectr1c at 07-24-2007 03:06 PM]

NiroZ
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geomatrx wrote:

NiroZ wrote:
To be honest, I'd much rather that a whole bunch of movies were nominated, then we simply ranked them...

Again, which films are nominated?

The ones that we suggest, but wouldn't be ranked. More like 'this that and those are good movies.'

and then from the movies suggested, people rank them.

Hikari
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So, um, I like the NiroZ 'submit recommendations and poll for a final ranking' plan.

Since, y'know, I can't really rank my favorite movies, I can only go as far as throwing a list out there.

Decisions, decisions...

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Krissan
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I'm concernced that the nomination+ranking might scare people away. You can't rank movies you haven't seen, and if you get into the thread after the nominations are complete, your favourite movies won't be there.


Another suggestion is that I include a couple of "Honorable Mention" places in the complete list, for example if a really small movie (arbitrarily decided) is included on two persons lists but doesn't make it into a top 100. I was planning on writing a few lines about every movie, not just compiling a list of 100 titles anyway.

EDIT: By the way, I received the first submission today.

Also, I know it's hard to rank the movies once you enter top 5-10. For genre movies, it's easier - you can actually reason which is the better action movie between Die Hard 2 and Terminator 2 by comparing action scenes and so on. Problem is that the top five usually consists of movies that each left you with an unique feeling. Salò, Cidade de Deus and The Big Lebowski are pretty much given in my top ten, but they didn't give me any quantifiable enjoyment, so to speak.

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[Last edited by Krissan at 07-26-2007 12:07 AM]

Hikari
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So what if we, say... Do this in three phases? First phase, we have nominations, then we post a thread saying 'here's the films we're putting in the poll, please watch them if you can', then after, say, two or three weeks, we actually put up the poll?

On a side note, wouldn't this be better located in Anything rather than Forum Games?

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[Last edited by Hikari at 07-26-2007 12:33 AM]

NiroZ
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Krissan wrote:
I'm concernced that the nomination+ranking might scare people away. You can't rank movies you haven't seen, and if you get into the thread after the nominations are complete, your favourite movies won't be there.

I would envison that there wouldn't be a poll, and people would only nominate the movies that they have seen. Provided that there are enough movies brainstormed, there shouldn't be a problem.

Krissan
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Well, if there would be a ranking process after the nominations, I think the nominations should be held rather informal. It should by no means be forbidden to have a movie on your list that hasn't been mentioned in this thread. Or am I misunderstanding you terriby? I've been swamped by work today, and everything seems to be a blur. Will finish watching The Princess Bride (which probably won't make my list, despite the fact that André the Giant stars in it) and then fall asleep.

Here are a few movies that I've been planning to see in the next few days, due to recommendations:

Mind the Gap
Pan's Labyrinth
Spirited Away
Stalker
Vertigo
Rear Window
The Birds
Children of Men
Babel
El Mariachi


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NiroZ
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Krissan wrote:
Well, if there would be a ranking process after the nominations, I think the nominations should be held rather informal. It should by no means be forbidden to have a movie on your list that hasn't been mentioned in this thread.

Yeah, basically brainstorming.

Seeing as I'll take that as a 'go ahead'... here goes

Spirited away
Ghost in the Shell
Man on fire
Shawshank Redemption
Serenity
Monty Python and the holy Grail
Lord of the Rings: Return of the king
V for Vandetta
To Kill a Mocking Bird
The Godfather
Dr Strangelove
The Pianist
Saving Private Ryan
Forrest Gump
Terminator 2
Some like it hot

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[Last edited by NiroZ at 07-28-2007 01:42 AM : added more]

NiroZ
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oh, and having just dregged through the from for ever mention of the word 'movie' in the title, these might be worth glancing at.

Krissan
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Yeah, basically brainstorming.

Yeah, brainstorming is much welcomed. Watched Stalker and Spirited Away today. Spirited Away was nice and Stalker had beautiful photography. Doubt I was in the right mood for the story though, I think the plot (as I saw it) is better suited for book form, where more space will be given to elaborate on the finer details.

Here are a few good action movies:

Terminator 2
Aliens
Die Hard 2
Die Hard 4.0
Batman Begins
V For Vendetta
Desperado
Equillibrium/Cubic


War Movies:
The Platoon
Apocalypse Now
Full Metal Jacket
Flags of Our Fathers
Letters from Iwo Jima
Saving Private Ryan (not to be confused with the best porno title ever: Shaving Ryan's Privates)
Das Boot
Enemy at the Gates
Thin Red Line

Comedy:
Office Space
The Big Lebowski
Kingpin
Harold & Kumar Go To White Castle
Shaun of the Dead
Napoleon Dynamite

If you have the means to acquire foreign films, there are two outstanding Swedish ones in "Screwed In Tallinn" (Torsk På Tallinn) and "Four Shades of Brown" (Fyra Nyanser av Brunt). The first one is a made-for-TV movie, one hour long. Don't know if that category should be included in the poll. The second one is pretty long though, and tells four really great stories.



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I'm currently thinking of end of August to mid-September for the deadline.

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NiroZ
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so has anyone else got movie's that they would recommend in a top 100 list?

Stefan
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Here's a very incomplete list (in no particular order) of movies I'd put in my top 100 list:

Forbrydelsens element (1984)
Requiem for a Dream (2000)
Vertigo (1958)
Festen (1998)
2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
Paths of Glory (1957)
Monty Python and the Holy Grail (1975)
Koyaanisqatsi (1982)
Powaqqatsi (1988)
Breaking the Waves (1996)
Repulsion (1965)
Salò, or the 120 Days of Sodom (1975)
Amores Perros (2000)
Eraserhead (1977)
Solyaris (1972)
Zerkalo (1975)
The City of Lost Children (1995)
City of God (2002)
Apocalypse Now (1979)
The Godfather (1972)
The Godfather: Part II (1974)
A Clockwork Orange (1971)
Trois couleurs: Bleu (1993)
Todo sobre mi madre (1999)
Babel (2006)
Life of Brian (1979)
Ken Park (2002)
Bodysong (2003)
Casablanca (1942)
Schindler's List (1993)
Citizen Kane (1941)
The Wall (1982)
Uzak (2002)
Lilja 4-ever (2002)
M (1931)
Abre los ojos (1997)
Coffee and Cigarettes (2003)
Broken Flowers (2005)
Te doy mis ojos (2003)
The Conversation (1974)

I've probably forgotten a lot of movies that should definitely be here, so I'll update this post when I think of more.

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[Last edited by Stefan at 08-02-2007 09:39 PM]

SKWERLL
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Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.
South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut.

Also, I agree with all the comedy movies listed by Krissan, except Kingpin which I haven't seen yet. Yes, even the heavily misquoted Napoleon Dynamite.

(not to be confused with the best porno title ever: Shaving Ryan's Privates)

I lol'd

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Jacob
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Krissan, do you want to just post up the list I sent you, since everyone's just posting in the thread? (I didn't keep a copy).
Cheers.

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