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Caravel Forum : Caravel Boards : Contests : Holds Al Dente - Voting Topic (A multiple question poll)
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RankEntryAverageStandard Deviation
1Entry #21 - Professor Gooles Goolean Dungeon7.62962962962962.213563377405
2Entry #25 - The Pyramid of Doom7.37037037037041.590437818784
3Entry #4 - A Vist To Mellenfral72.0367003088693
4Entry #17 - Level200610226.9629629629632.1513386268826
5Entry #9 - Bugged6.92592592592592.0353528391162
6Entry #18 - Moebius Hold6.85185185185192.0494570862603
7Entry #26 - Under the Trapdoor6.74074074074071.9358717548699
8Entry #13 - Hold Of The Hour6.59259259259262.2154216931464
9Entry #19 - Nightmare Roses6.55555555555562.6573912762448
10Entry #8 - Beethros Shortcut6.29629629629632.0694392658813
11Entry #6 - Beethro Budkin Stars in6.25925925925931.9166443011756
12Entry #20 - Oct2006 Contest - Spider Invasion6.14814814814811.6932043630611
13Entry #1 - 60 Minutes6.0370370370371.5748364167014
14Entry #2 - A decision of no Choice5.74074074074072.1010154968419
15Entry #10 - Chambers Holds Al Dente5.70370370370372.2246899878046
16Entry #24 - The Crossing Holds Al Dente5.62962962962962.1282604294161
17Entry #27 - Valley of Nowhere5.55555555555561.9309052441092
18Entry #14 - Holds Al Dente by Tokyokid5.33333333333332.1602468994693
19Entry #5 - Al Dente North Carolina5.29629629629631.9965676995472
20Entry #11 - Hold Al dente by Timo0065.22222222222221.9309052441092
21Entry #15 - Holds Al Dente Jason5.18518518518522.0734125929301
22Entry #3 - A story about a man5.14814814814812.2394394752342
23Entry #16 - Holds Al Dente Jeff_ray5.11111111111112.0427529234278
24Entry #7 - Beethro the Gatherer4.85185185185191.9187901995539
25Entry #23 - Shortness4.33333333333332.4037008503093
26Entry #22 - Puzzling Limits4.29629629629631.9015552078509
27Entry #12 - Hold Al dente Lst64.25925925925931.8577683265162
Have you read the [s]menu[/s] voting rules?
Yessir! Napkin, check! Sextant, check! PollPollPoll 12 52.17%
Yeah, I'll have a Quarter Pounder with fries, and super-size it. PollPollPoll 7 30.43%
What? PollPollPoll 4 17.39%

Entry #1 - 60 Minutes
12345678910
Average Vote 6.037037037037
Standard Deviation 1.5748364167014

Entry #2 - A decision of no Choice
12345678910
Average Vote 5.7407407407407
Standard Deviation 2.1010154968419

Entry #3 - A story about a man
12345678910
Average Vote 5.1481481481481
Standard Deviation 2.2394394752342

Entry #4 - A Vist To Mellenfral
12345678910
Average Vote 7
Standard Deviation 2.0367003088693

Entry #5 - Al Dente North Carolina
12345678910
Average Vote 5.2962962962963
Standard Deviation 1.9965676995472

Entry #6 - Beethro Budkin Stars in
12345678910
Average Vote 6.2592592592593
Standard Deviation 1.9166443011756

Entry #7 - Beethro the Gatherer
12345678910
Average Vote 4.8518518518519
Standard Deviation 1.9187901995539

Entry #8 - Beethros Shortcut
12345678910
Average Vote 6.2962962962963
Standard Deviation 2.0694392658813

Entry #9 - Bugged
12345678910
Average Vote 6.9259259259259
Standard Deviation 2.0353528391162

Entry #10 - Chambers Holds Al Dente
12345678910
Average Vote 5.7037037037037
Standard Deviation 2.2246899878046

Entry #11 - Hold Al dente by Timo006
12345678910
Average Vote 5.2222222222222
Standard Deviation 1.9309052441092

Entry #12 - Hold Al dente Lst6
12345678910
Average Vote 4.2592592592593
Standard Deviation 1.8577683265162

Entry #13 - Hold Of The Hour
12345678910
Average Vote 6.5925925925926
Standard Deviation 2.2154216931464

Entry #14 - Holds Al Dente by Tokyokid
12345678910
Average Vote 5.3333333333333
Standard Deviation 2.1602468994693

Entry #15 - Holds Al Dente Jason
12345678910
Average Vote 5.1851851851852
Standard Deviation 2.0734125929301

Entry #16 - Holds Al Dente Jeff_ray
12345678910
Average Vote 5.1111111111111
Standard Deviation 2.0427529234278

Entry #17 - Level20061022
12345678910
Average Vote 6.962962962963
Standard Deviation 2.1513386268826

Entry #18 - Moebius Hold
12345678910
Average Vote 6.8518518518519
Standard Deviation 2.0494570862603

Entry #19 - Nightmare Roses
12345678910
Average Vote 6.5555555555556
Standard Deviation 2.6573912762448

Entry #20 - Oct2006 Contest - Spider Invasion
12345678910
Average Vote 6.1481481481481
Standard Deviation 1.6932043630611

Entry #21 - Professor Gooles Goolean Dungeon
12345678910
Average Vote 7.6296296296296
Standard Deviation 2.213563377405

Entry #22 - Puzzling Limits
12345678910
Average Vote 4.2962962962963
Standard Deviation 1.9015552078509

Entry #23 - Shortness
12345678910
Average Vote 4.3333333333333
Standard Deviation 2.4037008503093

Entry #24 - The Crossing Holds Al Dente
12345678910
Average Vote 5.6296296296296
Standard Deviation 2.1282604294161

Entry #25 - The Pyramid of Doom
12345678910
Average Vote 7.3703703703704
Standard Deviation 1.590437818784

Entry #26 - Under the Trapdoor
12345678910
Average Vote 6.7407407407407
Standard Deviation 1.9358717548699

Entry #27 - Valley of Nowhere
12345678910
Average Vote 5.5555555555556
Standard Deviation 1.9309052441092
Total Votes 45 100%
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Mattcrampy
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Man, I was overwhelmed with entries. I thought at minimum I might get half a dozen. If I was lucky, maybe a dozen or so, 15 at the max. We got double that! Wow! I hope we get enough voters, though.

There's some great entries here, too, so you've got two weekends to play through them all. It's daunting, but take it slow and remember that you only need to spend one hour on them, and many of them can be cracked in half that time; and that if you're convinced of what vote you're going to give a hold, it's okay to stop there.

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10-23-2006 at 09:31 AM
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Doom
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I'm at school now so I can't do it, but could someone please pack the entries one big zip file for easier downloading?
edit: I was searching it from the end instead of the beginning...

27 is definitely a lot for a hold contest. Just being curious, how many people made more than one entry?

[Last edited by Doom at 10-23-2006 11:08 AM]
10-23-2006 at 10:06 AM
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bdwing
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The second post has all the holds in a zip file.

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10-23-2006 at 10:55 AM
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Chaco
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That's more than a day of marathon DRODing. :-O

Well, I guess I'll get started on the first couple tonight.

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10-23-2006 at 11:37 AM
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Mattcrampy
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I figured it would be easier to find there because it's right under the voting post.

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10-23-2006 at 12:33 PM
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NiroZ
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oh, I just noticed that strikethoughs don't work for questions. ;)

Oh, and now they do. :huh

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[Last edited by NiroZ at 10-23-2006 01:46 PM]
10-23-2006 at 12:39 PM
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Doom
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quote:
Mattcrampy wrote:
I figured it would be easier to find there because it's right under the voting post.
Makes sense. I was just used to looking for it at the end, because they've been there usually before. (About twice because the author didn't think about it and it was posted by others, and about once after the entries when the author did think about it) Just my careless mistake.

In any case, downloading now...
10-23-2006 at 12:52 PM
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NiroZ
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Having played a few of these holds, I would like to warn other people that unfortuatnly, most of the holds I have tried thus far have not challenged the barrier of quality that easy holds thus far have set.

and you beguin to realise just how long 1 hour can be :~( .

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10-23-2006 at 01:39 PM
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Ezlo
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Yeah, some of the holds aren't even easy. The first two were pretty hard. I was expecting "Final Doom" difficulty.
10-23-2006 at 01:41 PM
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NiroZ
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well I have gotten up to number 6, and there is only one hold I can safley say is worth your time (other than mine, of course ;) ).

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10-23-2006 at 01:45 PM
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Ezlo
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#6 or #4?
10-23-2006 at 02:09 PM
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Mattcrampy
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I can safely say that there is at least one hold in there that perfectly encapsulates what I was looking for, and I will be voting that one very highly indeed.

But don't discount the difficulty of making a hold that's filling yet not tough, especially as a novice architect's favourite trick is to fill a room with roaches. We've all done it.



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10-23-2006 at 02:10 PM
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quote:
Mattcrampy wrote:
I can safely say that there is at least one hold in there that perfectly encapsulates what I was looking for, and I will be voting that one very highly indeed.

But don't discount the difficulty of making a hold that's filling yet not tough, especially as a novice architect's favourite trick is to fill a room with roaches. We've all done it.




Hey, I ran out of ideas and needed to do something in the room :blush

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10-23-2006 at 02:12 PM
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Tahnan
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Why (he asked, even though this isn't quite the forum in which to do so, but it's convenient and not totally out of place) must all entrants vote themselves "10"?
10-23-2006 at 04:57 PM
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quote:
Mattcrampy wrote:
Judge the hold on fun, where 1 is I'm not paying attention when voting and 10 is an excellent (unless you're the author of a particular entry, in which case, vote 10 for that entry).
:)

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10-23-2006 at 04:59 PM
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Tahnan
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quote:
Kevin_P86 wrote:
quote:
Mattcrampy wrote:
Judge the hold on fun, where 1 is I'm not paying attention when voting and 10 is an excellent (unless you're the author of a particular entry, in which case, vote 10 for that entry).
:)


Yes, but why? Why not judge your own hold on fun, give it a 10 if you think it's excellent, and give it something lower if you think it's not?
10-23-2006 at 05:02 PM
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Ezlo
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I've played up to number 13 now. Only two of these have been ANY good at all. All of them are, "Here, insane puzzles, solve within the hour", not "Here's a bunch of fun puzzles that you should be able to solve within the hour."
10-23-2006 at 05:32 PM
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eytanz
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quote:
Tahnan wrote:
quote:
Kevin_P86 wrote:
quote:
Mattcrampy wrote:
Judge the hold on fun, where 1 is I'm not paying attention when voting and 10 is an excellent (unless you're the author of a particular entry, in which case, vote 10 for that entry).
:)


Yes, but why? Why not judge your own hold on fun, give it a 10 if you think it's excellent, and give it something lower if you think it's not?


From the experience of previous contests, requiring authors to give themselves a 10 is fairer and leads to less controversy than allowing them free vote. Simply put, there may be some people who always vote themselves a 10 anyway, and that will handicap people who try to rank their own hold objectively. This then in turn leads to arguments about whether people with 10s got them legitimately. Thus, telling everyone to rank their own hold a 10 levels the playing field, and reduces headaches for everyone.

Note that this is not enforcable, so authors may still give themselves less than a 10. But in doing so, they know they are deliberately handicapping themselves; they can't complain later that other people's self-10s are unjustifed.

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10-23-2006 at 05:48 PM
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Mattcrampy
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Basically that in less words - if authors are told to vote for theirs as 10, it means the authors aren't obligated to evaluate their own work honestly. And some authors don't feel that obligation, while others don't think theirs is very good, and so it's just easier all around.

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10-23-2006 at 06:35 PM
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Tahnan
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I suppose that for me it's the difference between "must vote 10" and "may vote 10" (or perhaps "are free to vote 10").
10-23-2006 at 07:02 PM
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The point is that really, people shouldn't vote at all for their own holds, but that's impossible to enforce. The solution is to even out the playing field by stipulating what people must vote for themselves, and by giving the maximal value, you therefore eliminate the possibility of people cheating.

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10-23-2006 at 10:02 PM
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I've gone through about one third of the entries now (not in order). I have a clear favourite this far, at least when it comes to the grade. There are a few holds with REAL good design, but the puzzles are not fun or meaningless. Nice to know you have two thirds left... :)

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10-23-2006 at 10:48 PM
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Tahnan
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As a public service announcement, correct me if I'm wrong, but: #7 (Beethro the Gatherer) can't be completed because of a required room behind a blue door; and I think #2 (A decision of no choice) may have an uncompletable secret room.
10-23-2006 at 10:58 PM
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I started it the middle and the two I have done so far have been harder than I thought they should be and I didn't finish in an hour only got about half done on each one.

This is a long list but I saw a number of new entries and that is nice.



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[Last edited by techant at 10-20-2007 01:00 PM]
10-23-2006 at 11:15 PM
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coppro
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Tahnan- that is unfortunately correct, but since there is nothing behind that blue door except 12 empty squares and a staircase, I will publically announce the End of Hold Message:

As Beethro swung into the red zone, he knew that victory was upon him.

Congratulations!

Also, there is one secret room on that level (and no other puzzle rooms).
10-23-2006 at 11:19 PM
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Tahnan
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Further PSA: Tim006's hold has a required room behind the master door, so it too is not completable.
10-24-2006 at 12:11 AM
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Schik
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For the record, I will publicly out people who vote 10 for themselves and 1 for everyone else. Don't make me do it. Please.

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10-24-2006 at 02:03 AM
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quote:
Tahnan wrote:
and I think #2 (A decision of no choice) may have an uncompletable secret room.


Indeed it does. Fortunatly, the hold is anyone edit, so your not really missing out on anything.

Oh, and I would like to say as both a voter and a Architect that making a hold last for roughly 1 hour is actually quite hard, if you plan to fill it with easy puzzles. If this contest asked for 20 minute holds, it would be easier to have easy puzzles and a hold that was about the time requirement.

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10-24-2006 at 02:50 AM
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Tahnan
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NiroZ wrote:
Oh, and I would like to say as both a voter and a Architect that making a hold last for roughly 1 hour is actually quite hard, if you plan to fill it with easy puzzles. If this contest asked for 20 minute holds, it would be easier to have easy puzzles and a hold that was about the time requirement.


Hey, it wasn't supposed to last for an hour, it was supposed to last for an hour or less. (I'm certainly not expecting anyone to take an entire hour to finish my hold.)
10-24-2006 at 04:13 AM
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Mattcrampy
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My favourite hold so far took about 40 minutes to crack. But it was a really satisfying set of puzzles, cleverly put together. I think the winners are going to be people who bring new experiences to the table moreso than those that try to cram a traditional hold into an hour.

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10-24-2006 at 06:51 AM
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