Xindaris
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3N2W is a bit open-ended, and has multiple solutions I would consider intended. Assuming you mean

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Xindaris
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Update:
-Edited war2101: 1N as requested
-Removed previously-mentioned nonsense from Spiders' Domain: 4N
-Removed spear token from A good portrait

By the way, should there be some force arrows added to "idiot-proof" A good portrait? Or should we just accept that you'll only get stuck in that level if you practically do it on purpose, and that since you can always restore the start of the level and there are no puzzles in it, no progress will be lost anyway?

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Kalin
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That's what I kept trying to do, but I could never find a way to avoid , sealing the path.

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Xindaris
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The solution to that issue is basically to employ what I would consider a "standard trick" with the webspinner, that is:

At least, as far as I recall that's how I achieved it.

Also, I made a minor addition to the previous update, correcting the script in The Orthogonal Road...? Entrance so that it only plays the "dialogue" once.

Also also, something I realized myself about TOR? 1S before watching anyone else play is that the originally intended widgets are slightly broken:

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 09-23-2021 12:07 AM]

Xindaris
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File: demo.hold (1.5 KB)
Downloaded 62 times.
License: Public Domain

Okay, so, I was playing around with the design of TOR? 3S a bit, and came up with this (the room attached to this post). Changes are as follows:

-Player has a caber instead of stick, so can kill constructs himself in some contexts (inspired by a comment Chaco made in his playthrough of this room).
-West passage has shallow water-->bomb setup that (fairly) obviously causes the player with either a caber or a sword to kill himself if he tries to reach the brain himself.
-East passage has force arrows to trap whoever kills the second brain.
-The three orbs near the center of the room that didn't do anything actually useful and typically just added extra annoyance to trying to solve the room are now broken orbs. Their being solid orbs in the first place was an artifact of an early concept I had for how the soldiers might be manipulated which didn't pan out, and I'm not sure why I didn't do this before aside from not thinking about it enough.

If you disliked or couldn't solve the original version of this room, or especially if you didn't try the original version and can go into this one relatively blind, please give it a try and tell me what you think. I really strongly feel like this should be a less tedious, better version of the room that shows off the concept I had when I built the original.

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 09-23-2021 12:49 AM]

komachi
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If there's an issue with the copyright in a Good portrait you can add a scroll in the entrance with "original character from Touhou Project", I think that should be enough from what I've reading about the copyright of the series.

Xindaris
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I'll add a scroll like that in the next update if you'd like.

Okay, I just finished watching Chaco's last half-video of playing through TOR?. I'm seriously considering making a challenge in 4S1E for kicking the keg down a pit and then solving the room anyway, since that's actually possible. I think I actually will implement the challenge I previously mentioned in 1S for sure, and also change the floor under the "you need to press these" orbs in the aumtlich room to bridge for better puzzle visibility.

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Rabscuttle
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File: Bubbly Spirits v2.hold (5.1 KB)
Downloaded 59 times.
License: Public Domain

bubbly spirits v2

* Changed the widget to make it clearer (I hope!) If you were confused before, I'd appreciate you taking another look.
* The widget should now be proofed against blocking the brain paths.
* Changed the intro text
* Briar can grow in solved rooms, so secret will be accessible even if room complete
* Removed green doors in secret room, so you don't need to restore to back out
* Slight updates to 1E and 2E

I think there's still be one or two things I need to do - Need to prevent people going through the black doors in 1W and getting stuck in the top section.

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[Last edited by Rabscuttle at 09-26-2021 05:01 PM]

Xindaris
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Update in first post:
-Copied over the new versions of the "Bubbly Spirits" rooms. I copied over the existing rooms rather than deleting and replacing the level in hopes of preserving any preservable demos; this probably shouldn't break anything as far as I know.
-Added a scroll on the force arrows leading to the exit stairs of "A good portrait" indicating credit for the character depicted. komachi, please let me know if you're happy with this presentation or if you'd prefer I do something else in particular.
-Minor alterations to TOR?: Added a challenge to 1S, and a tiny puzzle-visibility aid to 2S1W (mentioned in an earlier post of mine)


Note that I have not yet changed 3S as proposed in my earlier post, since nobody seems to have downloaded the demo yet to give it a try, much less given feedback on if it's better to them that way. Not to express impatience with this (nor that I'm upset with anyone for not wanting to try or whatever), just making it clear that I have not made that as an actual change, and don't want to without at least some feedback.

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 09-29-2021 02:04 AM]

disoriented
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In the Hub 1W:
- the brain at 15,2 can be manually killed (without killing all the jack-o-lanterns)
- the candy takes too long a path between the two trick-or-treaters. it looks a little weird, but doesn't seem to break anything


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Xindaris
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I'll move the brain in the next update. The candy taking a weird path seems to be because candies are set to move exactly 6 tiles, and I made the path only 4 tiles long to fit in the small space. I don't particularly mind it looking mildly funky if it's okay with you.

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komachi
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Xindaris wrote:
Update in first post:
-Added a scroll on the force arrows leading to the exit stairs of "A good portrait" indicating credit for the character depicted. komachi, please let me know if you're happy with this presentation or if you'd prefer I do something else in particular.

Yes, it is fine. No problems from my part.
Also, would be grateful if you remove the scroll I put at the entrance of 10 minutes room because it was a simple notice for the contest.

Rabscuttle
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File: better level.PNG (64.6 KB)
Downloaded 359 times.
License: Public Domain

Final changes (hopefully):

Can you place a gel blob in each of the rooms like so:


Link the bottom pressure plate in 2W to toggle the door next to the keg

In the level intro, change "then you'll be flatter than a pancake" to "then your situation will be slopeless"

thanks!

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[Last edited by Rabscuttle at 09-30-2021 01:28 PM]

Xindaris
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Update:
-Correction to hub puzzle in 1W so you can't just stab the brain (+ the conquer token is moved to preserve symmetry).
-Removed scroll from 10 minutes rooms Entrance.
-Edited Bubbly Spirits as requested. By the way, are the pressure plates in the "central" part of 2W supposed to do nothing? Just to be sure.

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Rabscuttle
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Xindaris wrote:
Update:

-Edited Bubbly Spirits as requested. By the way, are the pressure plates in the "central" part of 2W supposed to do nothing? Just to be sure.

ah, you're right, they should all close the door to the east of the keg - Beethro has to avoid letting briar grow over them.

Xindaris
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Okay. Made a quick update with those connections added.

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Xindaris
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Okay, with nearly a week passed since the last post in this thread, I'd like to start considering submitting the compilation to HA's. To that end, this post is a request for demos (generally from the entry authors) of any rooms which have been altered enough for demos made during the voting period to no longer work, error spotting, any remaining change requests for anyone's entries, any comments in general, and for any serious objections to my replacing TOR? 3S with the version in this post.

Only that last one requires much in the way of explanation. The more I think about it, the more that version really fits my idea of what that room should be; I firmly believe it's a better, less tedious experience. The old version, much like the old versions of all the other entries, will be preserved in the voting thread if anyone wants to play that one.

..I have also finally remembered to send a PM requesting permission to use the altered Spider graphics in Spiders' Domain.

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 10-06-2021 03:59 AM]

Dragon Fogel
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File: MaGDLC Version Check Demos.demo (30.1 KB)
Downloaded 47 times.
License: Public Domain

Here's demos for Version Check. This was my first time seeing the hub puzzle for it, and I enjoyed it quite a bit.

I've done one last look over 2N1W. I did find a fairly simple way to enforce the solution I found, but I've decided not to use it and just leave it as a relatively open room. The key step isn't that interesting, and other solutions are probably harder to execute anyways.

For anyone curious, the change I was considering was to make it a fail state for the soldier to step on (16,10).

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[Last edited by Dragon Fogel at 10-06-2021 04:52 AM]

Rabscuttle
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File: MaGDLC Bubbly Spirits demos.demo (16.2 KB)
Downloaded 49 times.
License: Public Domain

* Still have todos for hold description and ending.
* Stairs in secret room in Bubbly Spirits go to End Hold instead of level entrance

demos attached

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[Last edited by Rabscuttle at 10-09-2021 12:40 PM]

Rabscuttle
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TOR?:3S changes are fine.

I don't object to either version, but if you prefer the solution to the newer version, yeah, go with that one.

Xindaris
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Update:
-Added hold description and ending, thanks for pointing those out Rabscuttle.
-Made the stairs in Bubbly Spirits 1S1W go to the entrance of the same level. I didn't even notice there were stairs there, I think. That is where you intended them to go, right?

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Chaco
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File: demo demo The Entrance Victory.demo (2.8 KB)
Downloaded 48 times.
License: Public Domain

Finally got around to playing new Orthogonal Road 3S. I think it's an improvement in so far as it clearly rules out certain courses of action; it's still a bit fiddly to work with the soldiers and constructs but at least it makes it far clearer that you can e.g. get a soldier partway through the west doors, then set the constructs + last soldier up again to get the other soldier the rest of the way through.

I think this makes the execution requirements a little less tough but still retains a pretty similar theme to the last version, so even though I had the pre-existing experience of having played the last version I still think it's fair to say this one is easier than the last.

It's still a long room, though, no getting around that.

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Dragon Fogel
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Did a runthrough of the new 3S, in the editor so I don't have a demo.

I know more about how the room is supposed to go now and that impacted my experience; however, I found it was still pretty inconvenient to get a soldier out of the left side. Leaving a construct for him to play with didn't seem to help with that. When I tried, he just got stuck on the orthosquare and I wound up doing a repetitive pattern of waiting for the next spawn cycle (and killing the construct on my side in the process) so the other soldier wouldn't leave his plate.

I guess the repetitive cycle was better than before since I only had to do it one way for a couple of cycles, but I still didn't particularly enjoy it.

Xindaris
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File: Make a Good Drod Level Compilation.demo (22.6 KB)
Downloaded 48 times.
License: Public Domain

Okay, time for a progress report...

-Updated hold in first post to have the new version of TOR? 3S since I feel like it's the biggest improvement I can make while keeping the spirit/idea that I originally had when building the room.
-Asked and received permission for the use of the spider graphics in the custom elements in Spiders' Domain from mrimer.

At this point there is nothing holding me back from submitting the hold to HA; however I do lack some demos which would possibly expedite the process. I've attached the full set of demos I currently have to this post, which also show the intended solutions to some rooms in my own entries including TOR? 3S's new version.

The demo set is missing any demos at all for 10 minutes rooms, a good portrait, Halloween 2101, and war2101. I'm reasonably sure all of those rooms are solvable as they are now, and obviously we don't really need demos for a good portrait, but I'd appreciate it if anyone who was able to at least solve more of 10 minutes rooms and war2101 than I could would post their "full-hold demo set".

Apart from that, I am making a last call for edits on entries. I'll give it a few days to a week depending on how busy my next few days/week are and then post it to the HA's, hopefully with a more complete demo set.

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 10-16-2021 09:33 PM]

Dragon Fogel
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File: MaGDLV Halloween 2021 Demos.demo (36.3 KB)
Downloaded 48 times.
License: Public Domain

Here are demos for Halloween 2021. For some reason my demos for the candy portion didn't last through the update from the contest version, but some quick poking around took care of that.

Dragon Fogel
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File: MaGDLV war2101 Demos.demo (32.2 KB)
Downloaded 46 times.
License: Public Domain

Here's demos for all rooms other than 1S in war2101, challenges included. The challenge in 1S was way too tight for me.

It seems all my 10 minutes rooms demos were lost, but I may be able to reconstruct them by loading saves and exiting. I'll get on that, but I don't promise to finish by the time somebody else provides demos. And there were three rooms I didn't finish.

Dragon Fogel
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File: MaGDLC 10 minutes demos.demo (37.3 KB)
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License: Public Domain

Here's what I was able to do.

I did not solve 2N, 2N1E, or 2E. I solved 1N3E during voting, but that room has very bad checkpointing so I didn't have a save partway through and would have had to redo it.

I guess this is also a suggestion to improve the checkpointing in that room.

Dragon Fogel
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Gave 10 minutes another look for other badly-checkpointed rooms.

1E only has a checkpoint at the very beginning. That gave me a checkpoint right at the end when reconstructing demos, but would be utterly useless during the room.

2E only has one checkpoint. I don't know what good places for other ones would be, but that one alone wouldn't be very helpful.

Everything else on the level looks at least okay for checkpoints; I'm sure there's room for improvement (it would be better if the the middle checkpoints in 2N1W weren't directly on the pressure plate, for instance) but these were what stood out at a quick glance as severely under-checkpointed.

Dragon Fogel
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Looked over the rest of the levels for checkpoint issues.

war2101 is definitely undercheckpointed. It might be hard to pick good places to put them, but having more in general would be at least a little better.

A Good Portrait doesn't have any but it also doesn't have anything to do except walk around. Still, some people might appreciate having a checkpoint somewhere on the level.

Everything else looks at least passable.

Rabscuttle
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File: MaGDLC war2101 1S Victory.demo (15.9 KB)
Downloaded 48 times.
License: Public Domain

war2101: 1S challenge demo