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File: The Palace of Puzzles - JtRH Remake v1.00.hold (94.7 KB)
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License: Other
From: Unspecified

It's been a while (exactly one year, that is) since the original release of "The Palace of Puzzles". So, on the occasion of the first anniversary, here's the JtRH remake of "The Palace of Puzzles" featuring many of the new JtRH elements - scripting excluded - in a variety of classic puzzles, such as:

Sokoban, Peg Solitaire, Chess Puzzles, a Tilt Maze, a Rolling-Block Maze, Logic Puzzles and several more.

Thanks especially to Schep, and to all others who tested and gave valuable feedback!

Blondbeard
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Hmm... I have discovered a quite strange solution for 2S1E upper floor. What appears to be a suiside turns out to be really effective.



I just thought you should know. Nice hold by the way (but some of the rooms is driving me nuts.)

VortexSurfer
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Blondbeard wrote:
Hmm... I have discovered a quite strange solution for 2S1E upper floor. What appears to be a suiside turns out to be really effective.

Interesting move! It may be a bug or at least an inconsistency, however, because it doesn't happen in all situations, as you pointed out.

I'm not sure if it's intended at all. I'll take it to the bugs forum. Thanks for the information!

Edit: Ok, I see there is already a thread for it.

VortexSurfer





[Edited by VortexSurfer at Local Time:05-25-2005 at 08:15 PM]

silver
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File: crates.JPG (77.9 KB)
Downloaded 121 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

I don't think I understand the rules to the crate puzzle. you say doors represent open floor space, but, then, in the picture attached, I should be able to topple the 2-height crate I'm on to the south. except halph won't do the thing.


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schep
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silver wrote:
I should be able to topple the 2-height crate I'm on to the south. except halph won't do the thing.

That would be a legal move, but I think the implementation is slightly incomplete. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure you can't get to that position without walking right by a chance to kill the brain.

silver
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File: TPoPJR_Upper_Floor_1N_failure.demo (1.6 KB)
Downloaded 139 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

I'm pretty sure I got to that position without being able to kill the brain I was convinced that I had finally solved it, but I guess only the "correct" solution works

attached the demo of my flailing about to get there


[Edited by silver at Local Time:05-27-2005 at 09:05 PM]

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schep
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Oh, I see what happened. Halph's orbs at the west that topple the stack just west of the brain are buggy, allowing the player to pull them over without first climbing on top.

Edit: And then comes the demo to make it plain. The demo also shows that toppling the NE tower to the west is a legal unforeseen move.

[Edited by schep at Local Time:05-27-2005 at 09:17 PM]

silver
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whoops. didn't realize that was a bad move. especially because I couldn't find any other moves in a lot of places okay.


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VortexSurfer
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schep wrote:
Oh, I see what happened. Halph's orbs at the west that topple the stack just west of the brain are buggy, allowing the player to pull them over without first climbing on top.

Edit: And then comes the demo to make it plain. The demo also shows that toppling the NE tower to the west is a legal unforeseen move.

[Edited by schep at Local Time:05-27-2005 at 09:17 PM]

OK, it seems there are several problems here - I'll fix them as soon as possible but I don't have time to do it this weekend. Thanks for the demo!

VortexSurfer

StuartK
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Really enjoying this hold. I've found a few anomalies...

In L1 2N3E (peg solitaire) the solution I have, if I complete the last move, closes the (previously opened) door on the remaining roaches. The botch fix was to only move the peg half way. I think it's something to do with traversing the final square multiple times, so I'm not sure what the fix would be.

I wonder if it's possible to redo L1 1S1E (the water measuring puzzle) without the 4 gallon column. This would remove an unintended solution


In L2 2S2E there's an unintended solution


In L2 2E has an unintended solution

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[Last edited by StuartK at 06-25-2005 01:56 PM : Added L2 2E exploit]

VortexSurfer
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Thanks for the feedback! I'll have a look at all of these issues, until then, off the top of my head:

StuartK wrote:
I wonder if it's possible to redo L1 1S1E (the water measuring puzzle) without the 4 gallon column. This would remove an unintended solution

I think there are different versions of this puzzle - The one I had in mind has the four gallon bottle, and the solution you give is not unintendend, if I remember correctly. But I agree the puzzle would be harder without it ... Come to think of it, "Die Hard - With a Vengeance" did use your version, didn't it? It may actually be easier to design the puzzle with only two bottles ...

In L2 2S2E there's an unintended solution

Oh, I see, you can do this by

Or is there another way?

StuartK
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VortexSurfer wrote:
Come to think of it, "Die Hard - With a Vengeance" did use your version, didn't it? It may actually be easier to design the puzzle with only two bottles ...

Yes, that was the version in the film. FWIW, of all the rooms in your hold, this one took the me longest to figure out the tech, in order to complete the puzzle.

Oh, I see, you can do this by

Click here to view the secret text

×moving diagonally between loops of the serpent, right?

Or is there another way?

Pretty much.

My demo is (unfortunately) available on Caravelnet for you to see what I did. I really want to delete it, but I guess if you fix the puzzle it'll become invalid and get tidied up eventually.

VortexSurfer
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StuartK wrote:
Really enjoying this hold. I've found a few anomalies...

In L1 2N3E (peg solitaire) the solution I have, if I complete the last move, closes the (previously opened) door on the remaining roaches. The botch fix was to only move the peg half way. I think it's something to do with traversing the final square multiple times, so I'm not sure what the fix would be.

It was a bug, there was one move where that door should have been toggled but wasn't. Fixed now.

I've decided to keep the three bottles in the water measuring puzzle (that version was just too much work to redesign again ), but I've added the two-bottle version as an additional challenge.

The closed loop puzzle is hopefully fixed now by using some additional ortho squares, and the Red-Green-Blue maze is fixed as well (couldn't use a wubba because you would still be able to backtrack, by blocking the wubba with your sword).

Anyway, as long as the hold updating feature is disabled, the current version of this hold is in the architecture section (thread "The Palace of Puzzles - The Annex").

Thanks again for finding all those bugs!

Stefan
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I think I've found an unintended solution for Upper Floor: 1E (didn't realize it before I started looking at other people's demos). Instead of staying inside the checkerboard, I alternated between going diagonally NW-SE and SE-NW through it (exiting the square a couple of times). My demo is on CaravelNet (it has been for quite a while).

It should also be noted that rooms like Upper Floor:1S1E are made quite trivial when looked at using the "Insert DROD Room image"-feature

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0.099³

VortexSurfer
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Stefan wrote:
I think I've found an unintended solution for Upper Floor: 1E (didn't realize it before I started looking at other people's demos). Instead of staying inside the checkerboard, I alternated between going diagonally NW-SE and SE-NW through it (exiting the square a couple of times). My demo is on CaravelNet (it has been for quite a while).

Well, I should have known ...Schep pointed out that possibility some time ago:

schep wrote:
Hmm, do you have some proof that leaving the bishop's chessboard always wastes more moves travelling than it might save cutting turns?

I should have examined that one more closely! I guess I'll have to limit the number of entrances/exits. This hold is really starting to look somewhat unfinished with all those unintended solutions, sorry about that ...

It should also be noted that rooms like Upper Floor:1S1E are made quite trivial when looked at using the "Insert DROD Room image"-feature

Well, that's unfortunate, but as long as the puzzle is not trivial in-game I think it's ok. You will always be able to look up the solutions of these puzzles somewhere else.


Update: I have now updated this hold to a new version in which all bugs mentioned in this thread are fixed.

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[Last edited by VortexSurfer at 06-25-2005 01:56 PM]

StuartK
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VortexSurfer wrote:
Update: I have now updated this hold to a new version in which all bugs mentioned in this thread are fixed.

All fixes appear to be good. And a certain solution reward is very silly

Syntax
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I'll summarise this hold in just 2 (or more) words:
Quite simply a phenomenal piece of work.

You're must be the kind of person who (given a wrench, a pair of sunglasses, 6 apples, an african elephant, a map of Cornwall, a 12 sided die, a business card, 3 empty pint glasses, a byro (with cap missing), snooker chalk, a poster of some place in Italy, 17 garden peas (frozen), some c code that works out the area of a rectangle (given x and y the lenghts of two adjacent sides), 3 matches (1 used), an army boot (muddy), a pair of bells, a dime and a piece of paper with "Wibble" written on it) could build the shuttle responsible for putting the first human on Mars.

Genius...

RoboBob3000
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Great hold. I'm absolutely amazed by how clever these puzzle implementations are.

I found a simple bug in Upper Floor 2E. The blue door accessable from the upper right portion of the maze can't be passed going from east to west. It looks like a simple orb mixup.

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VortexSurfer
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RoboBob3000 wrote:
I found a simple bug in Upper Floor 2E. The blue door accessable from the upper right portion of the maze can't be passed going from east to west. It looks like a simple orb mixup.

Yes, that's what it was. It's fixed now - thank you for the feedback!

NoahT
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Alright, the tech of Level 1, 1S1E has me stumped. I simply can not figure out how to pour between the 3 and 5 gallon bottles. It hasn't worked no matter what I try. The scrolls aren't helping; I can't even make complete sense of the two lower ones. This room was much easier to work in AE. Could anyone inform me on what to do here (don't post the solution, though)? Thanks in advance for help.

-Noah

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My stuff:

TripleM
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To pour from the 5 gallon bottle to the three gallon bottle, first go into the 5 gallon one and bump the yellow door (not the very bottom one, which you can't reach yet, just the yellow door representing the water in the bottle). Then go into the 3 gallon bottle and hit the door at the very bottom. Then just move your way out of the bottle, and when you get out, the water will be poured correctly. If that makes sense.

Chris
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When I play this hold now and check the best recordings using F6, I see something like "this hold is not registered on caravelnet".

Now I downloaded the hold from caravelnet, and it used work fine. In the list of holds I see (updated) after the hold name. Does that mean that the hold has changed since I downloaded it?

What would be the implications of re-downloading it? Suppose I solved a level on the first floor which has now changed, and which my recording no longer solves. Will I have to go back and do that room before I can continue with my current game? Or just how does it work?

TripleM
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Yep, updated means its changed. If you download it again, you'll be able to restore to anywhere that you've previously visited, whether its after a room thats been changed or not.

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[Last edited by TripleM at 09-13-2005 10:38 AM : removed quote, since I didn't really need it]

Chaco
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Hmm... for some odd reason, this download won't work. Whether I download this hold from the downloads page, or from this topic, DROD says that the file's corrupt. I really want to play this hold, the regular one's great

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Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

McFrugal
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I found a (possibly) unintended solution to Upper Floor: 1S.



Beats me how you'd fix this, though, without turning it into a complicated orb puzzle.

VortexSurfer
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McFrugal wrote:
I found a (possibly) unintended solution to Upper Floor: 1S.

This has so many unintended solutions I can't believe I thought it could work.



I have to think about it, but I'm afraid you're right and there is no easy way to fix it.

Tahnan
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In the category of very low-priority bug-fixes: in ground floor 1S2E, the orb at h7, aka (29,5), closes the door around it. It oughtn't affect gameplay at all, just an aesthetic thing, but it's such a nice hold that I hate to see even a minor aesthetic problem.

jbluestein
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Finally polished off this hold. Quite enjoyable puzzle-type hold, although the puzzles aren't really DROD puzzles per se.

I think I found a different unintended solution in Level 2: 2S2E (long snake room). I was able to circle around enough in the room that I could escape and make it to the scroll -- but I didn't get anywhere close to having the entire snake in the room. Maybe that's OK, though. Don't know.

In any case, I give this hold an 8 for fun and a 4 for difficulty.

Josh

____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck