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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Time After Time (a pseudo-tutorial on time tokens)
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Chaco
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File: timeaftertime_oct23_1.hold (11.2 KB)
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icon Time After Time (+1)  
Well, here's a preview of that new hold I mentioned I was working on a couple of times: it's all about time tokens!

I'm aiming for a pseudo-tutorial that doesn't exactly hold the player's hand, but demonstrates several useful techniques that are useful in other holds, starting from the basics and building on them into real subtle manipulation later on.

My goal is probably to have around six or seven levels, although that's going to depend on how many ideas I have - right now I have levels split up into sets of 4 in steadily increasing difficulty, but I'll certainly give level layouts some more thought after I have some more rooms.

Anyway, play, enjoy, and let me know what you think.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 10-23-2017 10:08 PM]
09-30-2017 at 04:44 PM
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File: Time After Time ROsD.demo (3.7 KB)
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icon Re: Time After Time (+4)  
Floor 1 : This level introduced general knowledge of temporal token for players who don't know it.
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Floor 2 : This level explain temporal token a bit detailed.
Click here to view the secret text


I have attached the demo if you need it.

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[Last edited by Resert On at 10-01-2017 05:56 AM]
10-01-2017 at 05:53 AM
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Chaco
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icon Time After Time Oct. 1st Update (0)  
Thanks for the comments and demos! They were short but direct.

Here's a new version of the hold with some minor changes and fixes:

* Level 1 1E has a new time clone and platform loading area that should be more straightforward, and enforce the idea I want to show in that room. It's still an easy room, maybe easier now.

* Level 2 The Entrance: added force arrows. Makes it more obvious what to do, but also enforces that Beethro use the west hallway and a time clone use the east hallway. Movement order shouldn't matter here like it does for 1N.

* Level 2 1N: Changed order of doors so the failure condition should actually be enforced now.

* Level 2 1E: Added evil eye to force somebody to go in the south chamber, and added fire trap to west briar mechanism to enforce failure if the east briar ever hits the plate.

____________________________
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[Last edited by Chaco at 10-01-2017 08:30 PM]
10-01-2017 at 08:30 PM
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bbb
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icon Re: Time After Time (+4)  
Comments are mostly based on the earlier version, as updating would probably invalidate some demos.

Floor 1:
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Floor 2:
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A general bug which appears in this room, not related to hold design:
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Floor 3:
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Floor 4:
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Floor 5:
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Comments on new version:
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[Last edited by bbb at 10-15-2017 11:42 AM : Correction]
10-03-2017 at 06:14 PM
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Insoluble
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File: Time After Time.demo (19.4 KB)
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icon Re: Time After Time (+4)  
Played through the first few floors. Demos are attached. I'm kind of unsure who the target audience is here. The difficulty level jumps around quite a bit and so far it's feels as though the hold has a hard time finding its identity. Some rooms do feel a bit like a pseudo tutorial, but a lot of rooms definitely feel more of the You'd-better-have-played-Advanced-Concepts-3-or-else-you-won't know-where-to-begin variety. I actually tended to like the latter sort of room better, but if you are going for more of a tutorialish kind of hold, I'll try to note the rooms that seem out of line with that. That being said, I'm probably exactly the wrong kind of person to be commenting on difficulty here and I imagine it would be good to get some comments from someone not as comfortable with some of the more advanced time clone tricks.

Floor 1 Nothing to say here. Everything felt very much in line with your description of the hold as kind of a time clone trainer. The rooms showed off basic time clone behavior without getting too complex. Difficulty was probably 4 brain or so. Everything looked nicely polished.

Floor 2
The entrance was oddly easy to just brute force, leaving me thinking I had maybe missed something important. I didn't use the orb at (7,30), so maybe there's an extra bit to this that isn't being enforced.
1N: is a room that will probably get some H&S posts. This definitely felt like it veered off from the difficulty curve set by previous rooms. Dealing with multiple events within a turn is something that is probably tricky enough already. you at least hint at this in the scrolls. But I suspect a lot of folks aren't as familiar with the mirror bump move needed to get the eastenrmost plate. Since that requires some fairly arcane knowledge of turn order that doesn't even have to do with time clones, I'd suggest it may be a bit much for level 2 of a hold that mentions the word tutorial in it's description. That being said, this was one of my favorite rooms and I'd hate to see it go to waste.
1N1E: A nice disrupting the timeline room. Probably about the right level for something introducing this concept. Definitely on the upper end if you are aiming this hold at folks who don't feel very comfortable with time clones.
1E: There are a lot of extra time tokens here. It may be that you are trying to be generous, but I think these actually detract from the room. It's more of a red herring than anything else.

Floor 3
The entrance This was a nice intro to using time clones to attract monsters. After a bit of thought it was pretty clear that must be the central concept of the room. I was kind of disappointed when that concept didn't come up in the level at all later on in the level. It might be good to reinforce it in a room later on in the level if you are really going for something tutorially with this hold.
1N: was a neat little room. I really wish something could be done to make cleanup less of a chore at the end though.
1N1E: Seems like it may be another room that gives people a rough time. This is definitely a more abstract disrupting the time-line since you need to think about displacing things in time. It also requires a bit of counting to get things to line up right. Don't get me wrong, I love a good count now and again and I definitely enjoyed this room a lot. But I suspect this is another one that might feel on the high end of the difficulty you may be going for.
1E: Is maybe too easy? I had a lot of tokens leftover at the end. You could probably tighten this one up a bit without making it too difficult.

I'm enjoying this a lot so far and hope to play the next few levels soon.

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[Last edited by Insoluble at 10-10-2017 12:21 PM]
10-10-2017 at 03:55 AM
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Chaco
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icon Time After Time October 23rd Update (0)  
Alright, a new version of Time After Time is out, with more rooms and some re-balancing. Here's the changelog:

* Swapped floors 2 and 3, and renamed all the level names so discussion about older
room coordinates doesn't blend in with new room coordinates. Also messed with levels' room styles.

* Cracked all the orbs in Gamma: Entrance to enforce using each orb only once.

* Replaced Gamma 1N's eastern section with a better one that doesn't rely on a Weird Trick, but instead a probably more deducible one since it's similar to the one in the middle section.

* Beta now has new room in 1N1E, old version moved to 2N1E as secret room.

* Beta 1E re-worked into a region-counting puzzle.

* Old Floor 3 1N1E moved to Delta 1N.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):
Click here to view the secret text

10-23-2017 at 10:10 PM
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