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Caravel Forum : Caravel Boards : Contests : Take Five DIFFICULTY Poll (Please read before voting!) (A multiple question poll)
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RankEntryAverageStandard Deviation
1How many brains is "This architect couldnt follow the rules" in terms of difficulty?7.69230769230771.6817854699289
2How many brains is "Hordes" in terms of difficulty?7.23076923076921.0490908997681
3How many brains is "Stuck in the Muck" in terms of difficulty?6.92307692307690.91664425290869
4How many brains is "Custom Weapons Redux" in terms of difficulty?6.69230769230771.0658774200424
5How many brains is "Duplication Desert" in terms of difficulty?5.84615384615380.94837138507215
6How many brains is "A Five Brains Hold" in terms of difficulty?5.61538461538461.4432048491764
7How many brains is "Minimalism" in terms of difficulty?5.46153846153851.1512791959304
8How many brains is "Five-Pointed Spear" in terms of difficulty?5.23076923076920.89044899252233
9How many brains is "Gimme Five" in terms of difficulty?5.07692307692310.82848689340531
10How many brains is "Master of the Mundane" in terms of difficulty?4.61538461538460.7378202343558
11How many brains is "Keeping It Simple" in terms of difficulty?4.07692307692311.8998598515736
12How many brains is "Serious Seepage" in terms of difficulty?3.69230769230771.2015768732164
How many brains is "Gimme Five" in terms of difficulty?
12345678910
Average Vote 5.0769230769231
Standard Deviation 0.82848689340531

How many brains is "Minimalism" in terms of difficulty?
12345678910
Average Vote 5.4615384615385
Standard Deviation 1.1512791959304

How many brains is "A Five Brains Hold" in terms of difficulty?
12345678910
Average Vote 5.6153846153846
Standard Deviation 1.4432048491764

How many brains is "Stuck in the Muck" in terms of difficulty?
12345678910
Average Vote 6.9230769230769
Standard Deviation 0.91664425290869

How many brains is "Custom Weapons Redux" in terms of difficulty?
12345678910
Average Vote 6.6923076923077
Standard Deviation 1.0658774200424

How many brains is "Serious Seepage" in terms of difficulty?
12345678910
Average Vote 3.6923076923077
Standard Deviation 1.2015768732164

How many brains is "Master of the Mundane" in terms of difficulty?
12345678910
Average Vote 4.6153846153846
Standard Deviation 0.7378202343558

How many brains is "Duplication Desert" in terms of difficulty?
12345678910
Average Vote 5.8461538461538
Standard Deviation 0.94837138507215

How many brains is "This architect couldnt follow the rules" in terms of difficulty?
12345678910
Average Vote 7.6923076923077
Standard Deviation 1.6817854699289

How many brains is "Hordes" in terms of difficulty?
12345678910
Average Vote 7.2307692307692
Standard Deviation 1.0490908997681

How many brains is "Five-Pointed Spear" in terms of difficulty?
12345678910
Average Vote 5.2307692307692
Standard Deviation 0.89044899252233

How many brains is "Keeping It Simple" in terms of difficulty?
12345678910
Average Vote 4.0769230769231
Standard Deviation 1.8998598515736
Total Votes 20 100%
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icon Take Five DIFFICULTY Poll (Please read before voting!) (+1)  
Alright, here are the voting threads finally. Sorry about the delay in posting it! As a reminder, you are voting on each entry twice. Once to rate it for difficulty, and once for overall fun level. The votes will take place in two separate threads. In this thread you'll be voting on DIFFICULTY only! For the fun rating, please go to the other voting thread.

There are twelve entries in all that can be downloaded in the attachment to this post. I haven't had time to make a new level map for the compilation yet, so I'm using one of the ones from the Caravel website as a temporary stand in. All entries can be accessed from the map, and the compilation is "anyone edit".

You should probably vote your own entry as a 5. Other than that, there are no hard and fast guidelines for how to rate difficulty other than the fact that more brains means more difficult. One of the interesting things about this contest is that it will give everyone a chance to calibrate their own ways of judging difficulty with how other folks do. So go with your gut.

Voting will close in about two weeks. The deadline is Local Time:04-17-2017 at 12:00 AM so you have negative 9 weeks, 3 days left. When the voting period ends, entries will be judged based on which one came closest to 5 brains (rounded to the nearest half brain). Ties will be broken using the fun rating.

EDIT: Sorry folks, there is apparently a forum bug that makes the deadline for timed polls creep up incrementally over time. So the deadline is no longer what was posted above. You can use the deadline that shows up in the poll as a rough guide, but the actual deadline could be a few hours earlier than what it says at the moment.

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[Last edited by Insoluble at 04-13-2017 03:24 PM]
04-03-2017 at 04:24 AM
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icon Re: Take Five DIFFICULTY Poll (Please read before voting!) (0)  
Oh jeez I'm sorry folks. Apparently there's a rather annoying glitch in the compilation thread (totally my fault and nothing to do with the entry that was submitted). In one of the entries that involves custom weapons and weapon switching tokens (you'll know it when you see it), if you grab a custom weapon and then leave via the exit stairs, you'll be disarmed when you get go on to another level. This is totally my fault in that I forgot to clear the scripting when returning to the level map. Please don't hold this against the entry in any way. If this should happen to you, don't panic. Just go back to the custom weapons level, take a custom weapon, then take your sword back before taking the exit stairs. I'll post a fixed version of the compilation to this thread later tonight, but you are more than welcome to keep using the version you are playing as long as you know the workaround.

I'm posting some comments on the entries under unhide tags. If you want to post comments that don't show up until after voting You can post your own using unhide tags as follows:

[unhidetime=16 April 2017 11:00pm] Type your comments here. [/unhidetime]


I didn't vote obviously, but figured I'd provide some feedback to the architects to add to what others may have posted. First of all, it's important to recognize that there are different types of difficulty and some folks who might be pretty good at logical linchpin type difficulty may not be as solid with horde management or manipulation or whatnot. So I'll come out and say that I'm probably not as strong with execution difficulty (manipulation and so on) which will probably lead me to judge execution heavy rooms as more difficult than others may. I'll try to mention what I thought about the different types of difficulty for each of the entries in addition to talking about the difficulty curve overall.

On the flip side, I tended to feel like the entries that were based more on linchpin difficulty were closer to five brains. That may in part be just from familiarity with the kinds of tricks involved in those rooms. In particular, there were a few snake manipulation and time clone rooms that use tricks that, while maybe not commonplace, have been used before. If you know the tricks, the rooms are pretty straightforward. If you don't it makes the room a bit more difficult since you essentially have to discover the trick (which, while not super difficult, is probably more than 5 brains). I can see some of these entries having a high standard distribution of difficulties in part because of that.

Another interesting thing that came up for me but probably not anyone else is that knowing who the architect was for each of the entries actually probably made them a bit easier. I've played enough bomber50, Chaco, disoriented, and Xindaris holds at this point to have a good feel for the kinds of rooms they each go for. That gave me an idea of what type of approach to take. For example, Chaco tends to make rooms for which the best approach is to take careful stock of all the room details up front. Just about everything in his rooms will have a purpose. That's definitely not to say any of those architects are predictable or only capable of one kind of style, just that they each have fairly consistent architectural philosophies that can help you know what kind of approach to take with a room. At any rate, the result of that is I think I found the entries by architects I'm familiar with slightly easier than I would have otherwise.

"Gimme Five"
This one felt pretty much right on the nose at five brains for me. There were a couple of rooms that were slightly tricky, but no rooms were serious stonewalls and most rooms yielded to a bit of thought. I think the difficulty here was mostly in logical reasoning and not so much in execution (with a few exceptions) which made it feel pretty approachable. Difficulty was pretty consistent throughout too. interestingly, I think some of the harder rooms (or at least the ones that took me longer) were front-loaded in this one. 2W and 1S2W were rooms for which I had to resort to "guess and check". There may be a better way to do them, but I couldn't find it and had to blindly experiment. That always ends up making me perceive the room as more difficult (even if a correct solution is fairly easy to stumble upon.) Most of the rooms after that were pretty straightforward though, and had nice tricks to them. Somehow 2S1W got mentioned a lot in chat even though it relies on what I thought was a fairly standard trick. I guess it just goes to show how subjective difficulty can be. I think 4S1W was possibly my favorite on this level. It's a perfect example of the kind of room for which a bit of logical deduction works wonders. I also appreciate that the horde room at the end was fairly forgiving. It's a very different style of difficulty from the rest of the rooms, so it was good that it didn't go for anything too intense. If I had to pick my favorites for this contest it might just be this one. It's also probably second place in my book in terms of getting as close as possible to five brains.
---------------------------

"Minimalism"
This one also felt very close to 5 brains on the whole. I like that it had a mix of different difficulty types, some manipulation, some linchpin, and some horde management while still mostly maintaining a consistent difficulty level. I really liked 1N1W for this contest because of the flexibility in difficulty that it provides. A seasoned DRODer will immediately see that this can be done without the mirror and the temptation to rise to the self imposed challenge will be to great to resist. Letting a player chose their own difficulty level like this is really clever, and a couple of the rooms in this entry did just that by providing more resources than were necessary to solve the room.

A couple of rooms did seem to be much easier than the rest though. 2N1W seemed strangely straightforward and I didn't end up using a bunch of the elements in the room (the invisibility potion for one thing). Seems like this one might be broken. Not sure if the pressure plate at (4,14) is supposed to be a toggle and another invisibility potion available. As it is now it's somewhat trivial to get the last door open. I liked the room 1N1E just fine, but the manipulation here seemed a bit too straightforward, definitely well under 5 brains. Most everything else hit 5 brains on the nose for me and was really well done. I found 3N1W to be the hardest one here, probably because the difficulty lies mostly in execution.
---------------------------

"A Five Brains Hold"
I have a hard time judging this one for difficulty mostly because I felt like I was just randomly guessing for a couple of the rooms and got lucky. In 1W for instance, I just tried something that seemed like it might work and it just so happens that it did. I don't feel like I actually worked it out or solved it though. It was almost more of a demonstration of a neat trick that you can get pretty quickly if you experiment around a bit. A lot of the level had a similar feel. It didn't take me that long to get any of the rooms, but on the other hand, I can see how it could have taken me forever if I had tried to reason out what to do instead of just blindly experimenting. 1S was the exception to the rule here, that one had a nice linchpin that was totally something you could logically deduce. 1N was another one that could be deduced, but it was too straightforward to really feel like 5 brains. Because of that, this one felt like it undershot five brains by a bit, thought it was really hard to judge accurately.
---------------------------

"Stuck in the Muck"
There were definitely some 5ish brain rooms in the mix here, but there were also a few rooms mixed in that were well over that. The entrance was good. That was not too tough and not annoying in any way. It was a good intro to the level. But some of the other rooms... General tip: if it relies on gel cutting theory and ensuring that a configuration of gel is going to be cuttable, it probably isn't 5 brains (at least one room was like this). The gel cutting wasn't over the top for the most part though. 1S1W was the one that really went over 5 brains for me. Time clones and brained hordes just don't mix well. The clone is super annoying since the monsters will be attracted to him while recording but ignore him when replaying. It's clear that there are two problem spots that you need to clear before they become uncuttable, so basically I just had the clone clear one of them then disappear. That left me with an incredibly annoying brained horde room. My brained horde chops may just be very weak, but dealing with that horde was probably one of my least favorite things in this whole compilation.

Other rooms were mostly pretty good though, 3S1W and 3S for instance felt like they were exactly 5 brains and were pretty fun too. Some were actually well under 5 brains. 1S for instance seemed super easy both ways, and for 1E it was simple enough to do with only three rock golems, so you were definitely overly generous with resources. I guess you could argue that the too easy rooms and the too hard rooms average out to 5 brains, but I don't think difficulty really works that way. I think I probably tend to rate a hold's difficulty based on the maximum difficulty (or at least the average difficulty of the hardest 50%). So this entry definitely over shot for me.

A couple of notes for the compilation: Challenge scripting in 1S1W is busted and awards the challenge whenever you re-enter the already cleared room. Also, a couple of rooms put challenge scrolls behind room clear conditions. Can we all finally agree to not do that?

EDIT: upon watching you play through your own level I can see that I could have made 1S1W a lot easier by just killing the brain. Somehow all the rooms that enforced leaving the brain alive until the end in this hold drove me to assume the same was necessary in this room. That's my bad for lack of observational skills. I can console myself with the fact that I was observant enough to see a much easier (and probably more fun) way to do 2S than the one in the video (hint: kill the mother before first spawn.)
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"Custom Weapons Redux"
So right off that bat, using custom elements is going to make things feel harder. And that's taking into account that I'm already familiar with these elements from the previous contest. The thing with custom elements is that people haven't had the chance to build up intuition and experience with them yet, so they're going to feel unfamiliar and feel harder. This one even included a completely new custom element that hasn't appeared before. I'll be honest, I didn't spend too much time looking at those rooms since it wasn't really clear from the scrolls exactly how the grickle gun was supposed to work (or else it didn't seem to be putting grickles on spots I thought it should have based on the description.) I wasn't really in the mood to play guess the scripting so it's probably best that those rooms were marked as secret.

I managed to clear the required rooms in the entry in no too much time though, so I guess this would probably rate maybe a 6 or so. I had the most difficulty with the rooms that involved the briar seeds, mostly because it's a bit hard to predict how fast the stuff will grow so placement is a bit "guess and check". The rooms were mostly fun though. The difficulty was more on the execution side, but it never felt tedious or excessive. Some of the rooms here hit pretty close to five brains, and I ended up enjoying those a lot. 2S and 1N hit that spot for me. I'm not sure if you have three giants in 1N1E just for symmetry, but I ended up not using one of them at all.
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"Serious Seepage"
This entry was one of the few that definitely undershot. This felt like maybe 4 brains max. That being said, it was still a fun little romp. Some rooms, like 1S1W, required a little bit of thought at least. And 1N provided a little bit of challenge in the form of guard manipulation (still slightly under 5 brains) But rooms like 1N1E, where you pretty much just have to lead the seep down the different paths, feel like maybe 2 brains max. There's really nothing to do other than the thing that you obviously need to do. I guess you have to be a little bit careful not to lead more than one seep down the same path, but it's still really straightforward. Most of the rooms here were similar. I could pretty much just mindlessly stumble through. That's not necessarily a bad thing though. It was still fun and relaxing to play. 1W for instance had a nice little linchpin to it and was a fun room even though it was under 5 brains for sure. This was a fun hold to play through, but five brains should be at least a little bit of a challenge. I can't entirely blame the architect for undershooting though since there isn't much consensus as to what constitutes five brains. To be honest, this level felt like it could have fit very nicely right into KDD or JtRH, both of which have been considered to be five brains in the past.
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"Master of the Mundane"
If I had to call out one entry for nailing the 5 brain mark it would be this one. This is pretty much exactly the kind of difficulty I think of when I think 5 brains. I really enjoyed almost all the rooms in this level (the orb puzzle I could do without.) Pretty much all of them had enough of a puzzle to require at least a bit of thought, but nothing was a brick wall. I liked the scrolls in each room too. The scroll in 1N1W was actually helpful in pointing me in the right direction for solving the room by directing me to pay close attention to the details of the mud setup. It's hard to single out any single room here since everything seemed pretty darned close to five brains. I really like that for most of these the difficulty was in figuring out what to do and the execution was not too bad. I guess that's again due to the fact that I tend to rate execution difficulty higher than linchpin difficulty. There was a nice use of misdirection in a couple of rooms (2N1W and 3N1E) which is hard to pull of while still keeping the room at 5 brains. Man, I really wish I had more to say about this entry, but it's hard to say much as this is pretty much spot on in terms of both difficulty and fun.
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"Duplication Desert"
So again I'll mention that levels involving custom elements will automatically feel a bit harder than normal just due to the unfamiliarity with the elements in question. That being said, this entry was only just a little bit over five brains for me. Maybe a light 6. The puzzles are probably at about the 5 brain level if you discount the added difficulty of an unfamiliar element. 2S1W is a good example of this. The puzzle is pretty straightforward if you know all the details of how movement order work for the element, but that's a big if. It'd probably feel like 5 brains if the duplicator had been a standard element that we'd been working with for years though.

Most of the other rooms were pretty close to the 5 brain mark. I liked the guard manipulation in 1W, not too demanding, but fun to do. And cutting the tar properly in 1S1W was a neat little puzzle too. The citizen room (1E) was a bit weird. I didn't really think through what had to be done in that room. The possibility space is so small I pretty much just stumbled into the solution without trying. To be honest though I can't complain. It was relatively painless for a citizen room. Still, that room probably undershoots 5 brains. Note for compilation: I think I may be doing 2S1E wrong. I didn't need the wraithwings for anything.
---------------------------

"This architect couldnt follow the rules"
I should point out that this contest was named "This architect couldnt follow the rules" by the architect, and that the architect did, in fact, technically follow the rules. That being said this was an obvious troll and was clearly intended to be more than 5 brains. I'd probably call it a 7 or so, with the bulk of the difficulty being in the entrance and the super secret room which both felt like "guess and check" exercises. Some of the rooms actually felt like they hit pretty close to 5 brains. 1E for example, though I may have broken that one since I didn't use the time token at all.
---------------------------

"Hordes"
I can't tell if this is a troll entry or not. It took me a good half hour just to solve the entrance. That doesn't bode well for a level that's supposed to be five brains. The fact that everything else was gated from there made me almost decide to just skip this one. Once I did finally manage to get through I was even more convinced that this must be a troll. Took a look at 1W first. You want me to deal with how many tar babies each spawn? 1S really looks like it should be tractable, but I got nowhere with it. 2S? No thanks! 1S1W? No thanks with a timer on top. Maybe I'm just bad with horde rooms but this was easily 7.5 brains.

EDIT: After watching Chaco's LP of this one it turns out I'm just ridiculously bad at horde rooms! Also, 1S1W is super cool in retrospect. I wish I had given this entry more of a proper shot now. But one good takeaway lesson for just about everyone in future contests: do yourself a favor and make your level open access! If you green gate stuff you're making it harder for the folks judging your entries to see how awesome the rest of your rooms are! If I hadn't been so exhausted by the entrance, I probably would have been more focused for the rest of this level and enjoyed it a lot more. Thankfully I didn't vote in this one, but something similar happened to me in the last contest with at least one entry.
---------------------------

"Five-Pointed Spear"
First of all, I love the minimap art for this one. I really hope this entry wins something just due to the lovely level design here. Super cool. In terms of difficulty this was probably about 5 brains. It definitely felt really close to that at least. Part of that was due to some really cleverly built in flexibility in terms of room solutions. For example, there were two rooms that involved monster generators (7N with a tar mother and 11N with roach queens). In both of these rooms you can take a more execution heavy approach or you can do a bit of careful planning to minimize the difficulty of execution (Like killing the tar mother up front so that you don't have to worry about the time pressure or killing a bunch of the trapped roaches before opening the arrows).

If I had to critique anything about this level, it's that the difficulty curve was negative. Most of the rooms in the opening stretch and all along the central column felt like they were pretty spot on at five brains. The rooms in the "points" of the "spear" felt a lot easier for the most part. On the other hand, I kinda wandered into 11N1E, 11N1W, and 10N1W and did them without much thought. In 10N1E I feel like there must be something to the fact that you can get a barrel free and kill the wraithwing in the arrows with it, but I guess it may just be a coincidence based on the level art. At any rate, those rooms felt like maybe 3.5 or 4 brains at most. It's a minor complain though as the level on the whole definitely averages in at about 5 brains and was super fun to play.
---------------------------

"Keeping It Simple"
The name for this one is quite accurate, and I'd say this is one of the few entries that dramatically undershot in terms of difficulty. Pretty much all the rooms here didn't really push back in any way. It was clear what needed to be done from a quick glance at the room and the execution was straightforward. The rooms were fun still, but nowhere close to five brains. Again, this may be due to the architect trying to go for KDD and JtRH levels of difficulty, as the rooms here could have fit in the first half of either of those holds.
---------------------------


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[Last edited by Insoluble at 04-10-2017 02:33 AM]
04-04-2017 at 06:54 PM
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Xindaris
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icon Re: Take Five DIFFICULTY Poll (Please read before voting!) (0)  
Could I please have a demo for Hordes: The Entrance, if someone has managed that room? I can't get past it and I really want to see a little more of the level before deciding how I feel about its overall difficulty (or fun, for that matter)

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04-05-2017 at 07:45 PM
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disoriented
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icon Re: Take Five DIFFICULTY Poll (Please read before voting!) (0)  
An admonishment for whoever submitted the Hordes entry and "this architect couldn't follow the rules" entry:

You're not funny. You went against the intention of this contest. Now go sit in the corner and think about what you did.

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04-06-2017 at 02:44 AM
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uncopy2002
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icon Re: Take Five DIFFICULTY Poll (Please read before voting!) (0)  
quote:
Xindaris wrote:
Could I please have a demo for Hordes: The Entrance, if someone has managed that room? I can't get past it and I really want to see a little more of the level before deciding how I feel about its overall difficulty (or fun, for that matter)


The compilation is anyone-edit so feel free to peek at the editor.

As a side note, I've completed the Entrance (and 1 more room) in Hordes, as well as everything else in every other entry, and I don't really feel like completing the rest of Hordes. I guess I'll post a demo set soon enough or something.

[Last edited by uncopy2002 at 04-06-2017 10:06 AM]
04-06-2017 at 10:02 AM
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File: Take Five demos_P.demo (70.2 KB)
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icon Re: Take Five DIFFICULTY Poll (Please read before voting!) (+5)  
OKAY I LIED. Here's a full demo set.

No specific comments right now, will conjure some up later.
04-06-2017 at 10:55 AM
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icon Re: Take Five DIFFICULTY Poll (Please read before voting!) (+2)  
With uncopy's help (thank you uncopy!) I completed what I feel is probably enough commentary video playthrough to maybe vote sometime soonish. So here is a link to a twitch playlist of said things.

(DO NOT CLICK if you don't want to be spoiled as to which ones I made, or solutions to some particular rooms, or whatever!)

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/133938067?collection=5ugTxur9shT7tA

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04-07-2017 at 04:35 AM
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icon Re: Take Five DIFFICULTY Poll (Please read before voting!) (+2)  
I've also started a video Let's Play series of the entries, where I fully complete every required room and offer some commentary on which rooms I like, which rooms I don't, and how well the entries establish a fair level of difficulty.

At the start of each video description, I include a list of which entries I play in that video (plus I give plenty of buffer time at the map selection screen).

Here's a link to the first video, in the relevant playlist, where I play Keeping it Simple and Five-Pointed Spear:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Di0phKNFSc&index=11&list=PLPJnHh-qd0aBO4VI2b0AQ_BCkeGUsqXII

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[Last edited by Chaco at 04-13-2017 03:37 AM : sneakily added word "required" to phrase "complete every 'required' room"]
04-08-2017 at 03:06 PM
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icon Re: Take Five DIFFICULTY Poll (Please read before voting!) (+3)  
Time for commentary on the entries:


General notes:
Apparently since there's only a difficulty goal and no fun goals at all, there are no lower bounds to fun ratings???
(I'm looking at you, tACFtR and Hordes.)
Overall the rooms are less broken then the previous contests, probably because they're easier so it's harder for the architect to mess things up. There are also some rooms with good ideas too.

Also, I round things away from 5 because that's more fun.

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[Last edited by uncopy2002 at 04-17-2017 12:14 AM : added secret tags so as to not clutter space]
04-09-2017 at 01:41 PM
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icon Re: Take Five DIFFICULTY Poll (Please read before voting!) (0)  
While watching Chaco's stream I realized one of the rooms can be done in a totally different way (definitely unintended, and probably easier):

Click here to view the secret text

04-13-2017 at 01:33 PM
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icon Re: Take Five DIFFICULTY Poll (Please read before voting!) (+3)  
Here's a demo for the secret room in "This architect couldn't follow the rules", without using the special command.

Also reminder that there are three days left to vote.
04-13-2017 at 02:58 PM
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mauvebutterfly
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icon Re: Take Five DIFFICULTY Poll (Please read before voting!) (+2)  
I'll be uploading my LP videos of the contest after voting finishes. Last time I did one a day, but I'm trying to get a bunch of editing done in advance this time so people don't have to wait if they want to just skip to their entry.

Along that train of thought, I'm also attaching my demo pack to this post. Not everybody has time for videos, so this at least gives you feedback on unintended solutions and the like.

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106th Skywatcher
04-14-2017 at 05:23 PM
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mauvebutterfly
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icon Re: Take Five DIFFICULTY Poll (Please read before voting!) (+2)  
Here are my comments on the difficulty of the entries.

First, I want to try to define my rating system. Obviously, this is something that I thought a lot about during the contest, since I hadnít really thought about what the various numbers actually mean to me before. Hopefully people will want to argue with me about it, which will lead to some kind of interesting discussion. I settled on something approximately like this:

Click here to view the secret text


Now, for the entries themselves:

Click here to view the secret text



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106th Skywatcher
04-16-2017 at 04:24 PM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: Take Five DIFFICULTY Poll (Please read before voting!) (+1)  
My comments on the entries, with my brains rating for each one.

Gimme Five: A really difficult one to pin down, as the rooms varied quite a bit, but overall it was certainly enjoyable to play and not too hard. 4S was my favourite room; it reminds me a little of the eye room in Place of Whims, but it has its own unique and quirky character. I'm not a fan of rooms like 2S1W that require you to figure out an obscure trick. (4)

Minimalism: My entry.

A Five Brains Hold: Rooms looked difficult at first but turned out to be approachable. I found a different solution to 1W, getting two gentryii to block the sandy corridors. (6)

Stuck in the Muck: A mixed bag, with some rooms that were fine for 5 brains, others that were much harder. By the way, I tested this hold (as well as Serious Seepage), but my role was only to comment on unintended solutions, checkpoints etc, not to advise about difficulty. I'm responsible for two of the challenges; in 1S1W I was struggling with using the timeclone, so I decided to see if it was possible without, and it was; in 3S I pointed out a room break, so Xindaris added a challenge for solving the room as intended.

As regards difficulty, I feel it's only fair to judge a level primarily by its hardest rooms, since that's what determines what level of player will be able to complete a level, so.... (8)

Custom Weapons Redux: A valiant attempt to make more approachable rooms with some of the custom elements from the previous contest. The main problem with these is that because the elements are unfamiliar, it's a lot harder to look at a room and work out what it requires of you; another problem is unfamiliarity with the details of interactions, such as the firetraps cutting pressure plates. It was refreshing to see from Chaco's videos that several of these rooms aren't as hard as they felt, but I'm voting on my impressions, so... (7)

Serious Seepage: As mentioned, I playtested this. I solved the entire level in 10 minutes. Fun rooms, but not at a 5-brain level. (3)

Master of the Mundane: This was my favourite entry in "fun" terms, with 3N being the standout room of the entire contest. A nice selection of puzzles and linchpins, but a bit on the easy side. (4)

Duplication Desert: Similar remarks to Custom Weapons, although this one had more approachable rooms near the entrance. Unfortunately, I got stuck for a long time in the guard manipulation room, and maybe didn't spend enough time on the rest of the entry. (8)

This architect couldn't follow the rules: Bad memories of Constructs Warehouse. (9)

Hordes: I do like a good horde room, but this one was just too tough to find a good angle of approach. (8)

Five-Pointed Spear: Great hold art, and a nice selection of puzzles, most of which were just about the right difficulty. I found a few solutions different from Chaco's... in 9N, if it's intended to bring across a platform, you could have a challenge for doing it without. 11N is trivial if you kill the brains first. (5)

Keeping it Simple: Decent rooms, but they were just a bit too simple. (3)

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50th Skywatcher
04-16-2017 at 11:59 PM
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Insoluble
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icon Re: Take Five DIFFICULTY Poll (Please read before voting!) (0)  
And the results are in! Congrats to everyone involved for making some mighty fine holds. The consensus in Caravel Chat is that these were all really fun to play!

So here are the entries in order of difficulty rounded to the nearest brain.

8 Brains
Xindaris: This architect couldnt follow the rules

7 brains
bomber50: Hordes
Xindaris: Stuck in the Muck
mauvebutterfly: Custom Weapons Redux

6 brains
disoriented: Duplication Desert
Lucky Luc: A Five Brains Hold

5 brains
Nuntar: Minimalism
mauvebutterfly: Five-Pointed Spear
bomber50: Gimme Five
Chaco: Master of the Mundane

4 brains
bomber50: Keeping It Simple
Pekka: Serious Seepage


Since four entries rounded to 5 brains, we'll use fun rating as a tie breaker. So the winners are.

First place and 50 rank points go to Chaco with Master of the Mundane

Second place and 30 rank points go to mauvebutterfly for Five-Pointed Spear

Third Place and 20 rank points go to bomber50 for Gimme Five


I'll try to get the rank points distributed soon. Also be on the look out for the compilation hold in architecture. Thanks again to everyone who entered!

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Links to neat forum tools that I always have trouble finding:
Click here to view the secret text

04-17-2017 at 12:32 AM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Take Five DIFFICULTY Poll (Please read before voting!) (0)  
Wow, this was a really good field of holds to compete against. In retrospect there are a few rooms in my entry that could have used some more improvement (1N1W, 1N, 2N), but overall I'm pretty happy with how it turned out, and evidently plenty of other people were too. :)

All the videos in my contest LP are now live (thanks to Nuntar asking me to make the last few public a couple of days before they would have been otherwise). So, feel free to check out my attempts to solve each entry and see what I caught onto quickly, and what took me a while to figure out.

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Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):
Click here to view the secret text

04-17-2017 at 12:41 AM
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disoriented
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icon Re: Take Five DIFFICULTY Poll (Please read before voting!) (0)  
Special kudos for "Gimme Five" for receiving the closest score, almost exactly 5.0 - nice job!

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34th Skywatcher
04-17-2017 at 01:48 AM
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disoriented
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icon Re: Take Five DIFFICULTY Poll (Please read before voting!) (+1)  
Here's a new version of Duplication Desert that fixes a room break in 2S1E.

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34th Skywatcher
04-17-2017 at 09:03 AM
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mauvebutterfly
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icon Re: Take Five DIFFICULTY Poll (Please read before voting!) (+2)  
I finally finished editing and uploading all my LP videos for this contest.

Unlike last time when I just released one video a day, this time I'm releasing the entire thing at once so that architects can quickly skip to their entries or people can tune in to check specific rooms that they are wondering about.

I do complete every secret room as well as all the required rooms in each entry, and I don't use the special command in the "press special command to skip this secret room" room. The only room that is out of place is the secret from Serious Seepage, which I do in the final episode, since I missed that secret during my playthrough of that level.

The final episode also contains my difficulty rankings, but you could just read those earlier in this thread anyway, and I articulated things better here than in video.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2vW3p2ZL0YRaBJkVQRLSndjrddxMqwTG

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106th Skywatcher
04-17-2017 at 11:18 AM
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mauvebutterfly
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File: Custom Weapons Redux.hold (53.3 KB)
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icon Re: Take Five DIFFICULTY Poll (Please read before voting!) (+1)  
An updated version of Custom Weapons Redux. A number of notable changes in this version:

Click here to view the secret text


Edit: I also fixed the bug with players leaving the entry without a sword. The bug fix only takes place in the entrance, however. Insoluble, please make sure that the stairs in 2N2W are connected back to the entrance and don't go directly to the map.

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106th Skywatcher

[Last edited by mauvebutterfly at 04-17-2017 02:56 PM]
04-17-2017 at 02:32 PM
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mauvebutterfly
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File: Five-Pointed Spear.hold (7.9 KB)
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icon Re: Take Five DIFFICULTY Poll (Please read before voting!) (+1)  
An updated version of Five-Pointed Spear.

Click here to view the secret text


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106th Skywatcher
04-17-2017 at 02:55 PM
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